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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

So your guiding amounts to another link that you likely have not read, and one that only concerns Colorado at that? No thanks. If you can't answer the questions, then just admit you don't know. Would be a lot easier.

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I'm trying to learn and get answers too dude, and we were specifically using the Colorado model to that end.

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As to the CDC data, it's interesting that some consider the CDC to be a "shill for Trump", but then proceed to refer to CDC data as though it's completely reliable. Well, you can't have it both ways. At any rate, Trump's portrayal of the data, unsurprisingly, was inaccurate. He stupidly retweets material that anyone on his staff could verify in ten minutes. But the fact remains that the great majority of Covid deaths occur in people with underlying health problems. In other words, an already unhealthy person got the virus and died. So to say that 160,000 people have died of the Covid virus is not entirely accurate. It's on the level of a person with serious cardiac problems having a car wreck and dying, and it getting reported that he/she was "killed by a car wreck". But a healthy person would not have died, so that's the dilemma.

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Fact is a lot of people have health issues be they addressed, or not and this covid virus acts on those issues and is dangerous enough to raise the potential of death in many. Even some with NO issues can and have died as a result of contracting it. We cannot predict the outcomes of contraction, nor can we ignore those possibilities either.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The problem with the mail in balloting in this cycle is that states that don't have a proper verifiable system in place have rushed sending out ballots . In the case of NJ the dictator decided that ONLY mail in ballots will count and people who go to the polls will have their ballots considered as provisional . Bass ackwards . Assuming we MUST accommodate those who are afraid to go to their polling place ,shouldn't it be on them to REQUEST an absentee ballot ,instead of this willy nillie way, mailing ballots out as if they were just any piece of junk mail ?

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Glad you specified the issue of mail in ballots tied to THIS CYCLE, while forgetting the circumstance of covid virus which is the driving underlying fear that surrounds not just voting but the whole freaking economy and way of life we have enjoyed and considered as normal.

I can agree that people should be requesting ballots, but sadly too many don't have a clue of how to go about it. After years of repub shenanigans to suppress the vote, surely you can understand the reactions of dems to increase the vote.

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I'm trying to learn and get answers too dude, and we were specifically using the Colorado model to that end.

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Fair enough. I'm looking for answers as well. I think just mass mailing ballots, which has been proposed, is a terrible idea, but the way it's done in the Arizona district I linked to seemed reasonable.

There is another consideration. Should healthy people be expected to get off their duffs, get out of the house, and go vote? Is it wise to make everything TOO easy? Should those too lazy to work be allowed to vote? Should welfare recipients have the right to vote for pols who promise to take money from working Americans to give to the welfare crowd? Should people who pay no taxes be allowed to vote? Should people who live in tents on the streets of San Francisco have the same right to vote that people who discipline their lives to work for a living have? I'm assuming all of these people are mentally and physically healthy. Should they have the same right to vote as people who work and pay taxes?

I'm just speaking in general terms and not considering Covid.

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After years of repub shenanigans to suppress the vote

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yeah ok . Dems think cleaning voter rolls as suppression .

Let the dead vote!! Suffrage for the dead! 8D

As of today, the number of deaths from Covid are approaching 188,000. For those who need to understand this figure, I've added a link which explains the death count.


https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/cd...from-covid-19/

Your link is a link to nowhere.

Not sure what "understanding" of the figure is needed. It's 1,000 less than 189,000?

My apologies - this is the link.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/cd...from-covid-19/

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Fair enough. I'm looking for answers as well. I think just mass mailing ballots, which has been proposed, is a terrible idea, but the way it's done in the Arizona district I linked to seemed reasonable.

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I can go with that at face value and sorry I didn't find the link you mentioned, and if you could be so kind to re-provide the link or highlight the points you like I will peruse it and give my feedback.

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There is another consideration. Should healthy people be expected to get off their duffs, get out of the house, and go vote? Is it wise to make everything TOO easy? Should those too lazy to work be allowed to vote? Should welfare recipients have the right to vote for pols who promise to take money from working Americans to give to the welfare crowd? Should people who pay no taxes be allowed to vote? Should people who live in tents on the streets of San Francisco have the same right to vote that people who discipline their lives to work for a living have? I'm assuming all of these people are mentally and physically healthy. Should they have the same right to vote as people who work and pay taxes?

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By Constitution every one has equal protection and rights under the law and no consideration is given to disposition, attitude, aptitude or ability, or any other arbitrary classification. My answer is yes everyone should be able to vote without discrimination or contrivance.

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I'm just speaking in general terms and not considering Covid.

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Hard to dismiss or ignore such a devastating condition, but I get your point, thus my answer above.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

yeah ok . Dems think cleaning voter rolls as suppression .

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The way repubs do it you're darn skippy.

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I can go with that at face value and sorry I didn't find the link you mentioned, and if you could be so kind to re-provide the link or highlight the points you like I will peruse it and give my feedback.

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Happy to. https://www.kold.com/2020/07/07/fact...y-mail-ballot/

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By Constitution every one has equal protection and rights under the law and no consideration is given to disposition, attitude, aptitude or ability, or any other arbitrary classification. My answer is yes everyone should be able to vote without discrimination or contrivance.

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I understand that. I was just suggesting some potential changes. I think that in order to vote, you should have, as they say, some "skin in the game." At any rate, we don't let those under 18 vote and individuals in jail usually cannot vote, so it is restricted. In the American revolution, the battlecry was, "No taxation with representation." Perhaps we should examine, "No representation without taxation." Just throwing it out there for discussion sake.

My reference to Covid was just to say that I was thinking long term and not just for 2020.

Upon my return to posting, I am trying hard not to be a smartaxx. You can feel free to call me out if needed. I do know I can have a tendency in that direction.

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My apologies - this is the link.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/cd...from-covid-19/

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Isn't that the same link you posted yesterday? https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showpo...6&postcount=91

At any rate, the basic argument seems to center around how much impact Covid had on those who died. I imagine it ranges from a little to a lot.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Upon my return to posting, I am trying hard not to be a smartaxx. You can feel free to call me out if needed. I do know I can have a tendency in that direction.

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But we love you anyway! -- and missed you terribly!

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But we love you anyway! -- and missed you terribly!

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We're just one, big happy family!!

emphasis on the happy

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Isn't that the same link you posted yesterday? https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showpo...6&postcount=91

At any rate, the basic argument seems to center around how much impact Covid had on those who died. I imagine it ranges from a little to a lot.

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Yes, it's the same link. You said it went nowhere, so I posted it again. It explains why the 6% business was incorrect and was a full explanation of the accuracy of the death count due to COVID being around 188,000. It notes how Trump and QANON retweeted the false information.

Here's a sampling from Dr. Fauci:

“So the numbers you’ve been hearing — the 180,000-plus deaths — are real deaths from Covid-19. Let [there] not be any confusion about that,” Fauci said.

CDC describes it this way. "Conditions Contributing to Deaths where COVID-19 was listed on the death certificate" In other words, Covid was not the only cause.

Additionally, this was stated. "For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death."

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...#Comorbidities

We already knew that people with health issues were at higher risk but 6% of deaths had NO high risk conditions meaning otherwise healthy people can die from this disease. (If you believe the given figure)

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NOTE: Number of deaths reported in this table are the total number of deaths received and coded as of the date of analysis and do not represent all deaths that occurred in that period. Counts of deaths occurring before or after the reporting period are not included in the table.
*Data during this period are incomplete because of the lag in time between when the death occurred and when the death certificate is completed, submitted to NCHS and processed for reporting purposes. This delay can range from 1 week to 8 weeks or more, depending on the jurisdiction and cause of death.

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Indicates a higher number than reported. Not good no matter how you look at it.

If C-19 did not exist.. How many of the dead would be alive ? The vast majority would . They can't be suggesting that contributing factors are the major cause of death.

Let's face it . The CDC has been a POS organization for years ....just like the WHO

All you have to do is a quick search to find sourcing like this :


https://www.virology.ws/2019/03/25/t...se-to-reuters/

https://www.cnn.com/2014/10/13/healt...cdc/index.html

They screwed up the testing

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...3a7_story.html

They misreport test results
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...-texas/611935/

All you need to know about the CDC is that at a critical time early in the pandemic when giving the correct information to the public could've saved lives ;the CDC and the sanctified Dr Fauchi outright lied to us about the need to wear masks .

https://thehill.com/changing-america...-to-wear-masks

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6% of deaths had NO high risk conditions

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Actually, it doesn't even say that. It simply noted that there were no other health conditions noted in the reports. Might have been there, and yet they didn't report it.

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If C-19 did not exist.. How many of the dead would be alive ? The vast majority would .

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That's an interesting question to ponder. Another would be, "How many of the dead would have still been alive 12 or 24 months from now without Covid?" I would imagine it would be many fewer.

Forget EVERYBODY else, just follow your leader!