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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

It is very possible that Trump has "A HIGHER LOYALTY", one that we never imagined..

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LOLOLOLOL.This has got to be the funniest, wackiest thing I've ever seen on the internet. Satan is really Jesus in disguise.

Yeah I see that, but guy shouldn't we just wait on that change, maybe hold our breathes for him to show your optimism is justified? I know the dude sucks all the oxygen out of a room, and is always doing and saying dumb stuff, and frankly I think he's nuts and needs somewhere else to be while we wait for that change you hope for. I mean if you're going to sling this much crap be nice if you flush twice every now and them.

Athos: Thought that you would like that!-:)

Talaniman: NO MERCY FLUSHES!!!

This whole thing really does stink to high heaven, though.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

What you say we compare foreign aid by the U.S. versus foreign aid for Aussie Land. About 50 bil for us compared to about 4 bil for you. And you want to point fingers?

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When you consider the size of your budget, 50 Billion is small change and it is tied aid so the only economy you help is your own, and your economy is 100 times the size of ours so on that scale your efforts are paltry

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When you consider the size of your budget, 50 Billion is small change and it is tied aid so the only economy you help is your own, and your economy is 100 times the size of ours so on that scale your efforts are paltry

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If 50 bil is "paltry", then what is 4 bil? Minuscule? We are trying to defend much of the world. You only worry about yourself in that respect, and still we "outaid" you almost 13-1. You might want to find something else to complain about.

Still waiting for those five names of people who had first hand knowledge of a crime. Tal tried to give one but that was a complete dud. For that matter, let's just shoot for two.

Why wait? You have the same list I have of the witnesses, and the same access to transcript of their testimony, or hearings, as I have, so why wait for me to do your own reading, research, and draw your own conclusions and opinions. I referenced yesterday the parts of a transcripts I thought were pertainant to my opinion, so it's your turn.

Sorry you think criminals admit their crimes in straight forward perfect speech as that is a mistake and admittedly premature at this stage of taking testimony and gathering facts for which evidence can be assembled. Now being the learned and read person I am I can already take the words actions and antics of the dufus and his cronies and form the opinion the dufus was running a side deal with Ukraine with Giuliani and some Ukrainians and Americans to solicit a bribe and or extort Zelensky to publicly announce an investigation into his chief political rival as a smear campaign, since there has never been any EVIDENCE of wrong doing by either Biden, as well as investigate the right wing lunatic suggestion that Ukraine and not Russia waged a cyber war during the 2016 elections to benefit the dufus. We know from the Stone trial that Stone was in touch with wiki leaks and kept the dufus informed of coming dumps of DNC hacked emails by Russia, contrary to public statement made by the dufus, and AG Barr.

So my opinion so far is the dufus is a liar and cheater, and guilty of underhanded shady dealings that may be criminal. Now you can figure out your own conclusions and opinions, but I believe even a novice attorney could bring charges and prove my opinion just based on the known facts so far, and feel even more will be revealed later..

Now, however you see it is entirely up to you.

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Why wait? You have the same list I have of the witnesses, and the same access to transcript of their testimony, or hearings, as I have, so why wait for me to do your own reading, research, and draw your own conclusions and opinions. I referenced yesterday the parts of a transcripts I thought were pertainant to my opinion, so it's your turn.

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Athos claimed there were five. I just want to know who they are. Vindman, Taylor and Yovanavitch aren't one of them, so I would just love to know who you guys think they are.

As to the rest of your post, there were many words and many opinions (of yours) but, again, no evidence. This bitter witch hunt needs to stop unless there is something substantial we have not heard. All we have is witnesses who did not witness anything. As someone said recently, "It was a herd of heards."

There will never be enough evidence to change your mind about the lying cheating dufus. The good news is the dufus and his ilk will get what they deserves for their lying cheating and loud mouth bullying.

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There will never be enough evidence to change your mind about the lying cheating dufus.

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Amazing. You have nothing, but it's all my fault. What a joke.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Athos claimed there were five. I just want to know who they are.

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I estimate between 15 and 20. Knock yourself out.

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Witnesses (some first-hand) who testified that Trump offered release of military aid in return for Pres Z announcing the start of an investigation into Biden. Shortly thereafter, the whole scheme blew up with the whistleblower coming forward.

Taylor, Holmes, Williams, Vindman, Morrison, Sondland, and Trump himself by releasing the "transcript" of himself doing the bribery. These witnesses are all scheduled to be publicly questioned this coming week. Except Trump.

Others witnessing the bribe - 12 senior White House officials at the July 25 phone call. Several staffers overhearing Trump on the phone in Kiev talking to Sonderland. Second-hand witnesses: Kent, Cooper, Hill, Yovanovitch, Volker, a few others.

These are potential witnesses but have refused to testify. Pompeo, Giuliani, Mulvaney, Bolton, a few others.

Trump and the Republicans initially denied there was a quid pro quo (bribe).
Then the Republicans agreed there was a quid pro quo.
But they said it wasn't impeachable.

This is the same party that impeached Clinton for lying about his private sex life, yet find bribery (specifically listed in the Constitution as impeachable) not impeachable.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

He was not impeached for lying about his sex life. He was impeached for perjury

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Yeah, for lying about his private sex life.

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and obstruction of justice.

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Yeah, for lying about his private sex life.

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Yeah, for lying about his private sex life.

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I didn't realize the law said you could lie to a federal grand jury as long as it was about your "private sex life", meaning of course an affair you were having in the WH with a 22 year old intern. Thanks for clearing that up.

So could you also lie about your "private bank accounts" or your "private business dealings"?

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I estimate between 15 and 20. Knock yourself out.

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I guess that is what now passes for 5 names. As to the bribe, the problem of course is that there was no bribe. Kind of inconvenient, but true nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I didn't realize the law said you could lie to a federal grand jury as long as it was about your "private sex life",

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It doesn't say that but a lie re someone's sex life is about as trivial as you can get. Lies are common in courts and and are rarely punished.

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meaning of course an affair you were having in the WH with a 22 year old intern. Thanks for clearing that up.

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This is news to you?

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So could you also lie about your "private bank accounts" or your "private business dealings"?

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Of course not. That's a dumb question.

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I guess that is what now passes for 5 names.

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No, it's 10 to 15 more. Maybe you ARE that dumb!

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As to the bribe, the problem of course is that there was no bribe. Kind of inconvenient, but true nonetheless.

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Ok, you've convinced me. You're dumb as a rock. Of course, there was a bribe. The Republicans and you are the only ones who think that. The Republicans have an excuse - they're terrified of Trump. What's your excuse?

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It doesn't say that.

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Exactly, which makes me wonder why you ever made such a ridiculous assertion.

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I guess that is what now passes for 5 names.
No, it's 10 to 15 more. Maybe you ARE that dumb!

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OK. Let's see. What is it about the word "name" that you don't understand? You know, "name" kind of like, "My name is Athos and I evidently don't know what the word 'name' means." So until you give names, which you plainly don't have, then don't try to pretend you are answering the question.

Getting straight answers out of you is like pulling teeth, and when you don't have any, then you start calling names which is pretty pathetic.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Amazing. You have nothing, but it's all my fault. What a joke.

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I placed no fault. Just made a statement of fact. If you have the dufus in his own words saying he needs an investigation of the Biden's and the 2016 elections, 8 people heard him say it. Do you dispute those facts?

The dufus ordered the hold on assistance to Ukraine, or do you dispute that fact too?

Sondland and Rudy told the Ukrainians they would get no money or meeting without a public announcement of those investigation. You don't dispute those facts either do you?

Sounds pretty straight forward to me, but if the mule don't want to move what can you do?

I know, we can get the dufus in front of a grand jury and see what lies he tells. He and his minions have certainly been invited but so far nada.

NO LIE IN COURT IS SMALL. In fact, you are "SWORN" to "tell the truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God".

If you will lie about one thing, even small things, you will most assuredly will lie about larger things.

If you lie about ANYTHING, you are a liar.

Bill Clinton is a CONVICTED LIAR.

If Bill Clinton lied about his "personal sex life", GOD ONLY KNOWS WHAT OTHER LIES HE TOLD THE AMERICAN PEOPLE during his tenure as POTUS: Truly a dark time period in the nations history.

Hmm, the dufus lies everyday about everything, big small fat or tall. I guess it's a dark time in America AGAIN.

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I placed no fault. Just made a statement of fact. If you have the dufus in his own words saying he needs an investigation of the Biden's and the 2016 elections, 8 people heard him say it. Do you dispute those facts?

The dufus ordered the hold on assistance to Ukraine, or do you dispute that fact too?

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No. That is accurate and not in dispute. In fact, the pres released the transcript of the call, so there is no doubt about it. He also went to the LSU/Alabama football game. In both cases, he is not guilty of a crime. There is one distinction. I don't think he said "he needed it". He asked for it as a favor. But you can provide the quote if that is wrong.

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Sondland and Rudy told the Ukrainians they would get no money or meeting without a public announcement of those investigation. You don't dispute those facts either do you?

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I know that Sondland said he did. If you want to prosecute Sondland, then go for it. As for RG, you have only the word of Sondland on that.

Both the Uke prime minister and the foreign minister say there was no linkage. And if fact, the money was delivered and the investigation never took place. You don't dispute those facts do you?

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Hmm, the dufus lies everyday about everything, big small fat or tall. I guess it's a dark time in America AGAIN.

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Maybe he learned from Obama? Well, at least he didn't lie about the deaths of four Americans so he could win an election.

I guess the answer to my question is stupidity, 500 homes later, and the fight rages on and no one is interested, they have decided that all this enhances the rediculous climate change debate, as if catastrophic fire events have not happened in the past. Today is another catastrophic fire rating day somewhere in the country. I lay blame for climate change where it belongs, Sol and our wobble in our orbit

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I guess the answer to my question is stupidity, 500 homes later, and the fight rages on and no one is interested, they have decided that all this enhances the rediculous climate change debate, as if catastrophic fire events have not happened in the past. Today is another catastrophic fire rating day somewhere in the country. I lay blame for climate change where it belongs, Sol and our wobble in our orbit

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You could very well be correct about GW. For certain the fires in California are, at least in part, due to poor management.