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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I can only suggest that people do some research on how abortions are performed. Be prepared to be shocked if you do, and be prepared to consider how we can refer to these unborn children as somehow less than persons.

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Many have JL know for a long time the gruesome details of later term abortions and have for many decades but what if having that knowledge doesn't change minds as you believe? Will you relent your efforts? I doubt it, nor should you but as I have said many times women with resources are empowered to do as they please and you only can bully those without resources to follow your lead. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, so I choose the education route rather than making premarital sex a punishment for women and not men. I just believe in education is a better way to behave rather than just pounding abstinence, which has never worked in history. Keep in mind that abortions are done in secret and we can only fret over the known ones, which for fact are not the only ones, and I suspect just a minority part of the whole.

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My experience is that the average person couldn't care less. They just don't want to be bothered, or perhaps they don't want to have to feel some responsibility upon discovering the truth.

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Consider there are greater truths in people lives than just the abortion issue, especially for women with little resources and support.

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you only can bully those without resources to follow your lead. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, so I choose the education route rather than making premarital sex a punishment for women and not men. I just believe in education is a better way to behave rather than just pounding abstinence, which has never worked in history. Keep in mind that abortions are done in secret and we can only fret over the known ones, which for fact are not the only ones, and I suspect just a minority part of the whole.

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Not sure how I'm bullying anyone. At any rate, learning what actually goes on during an abortion is certainly an education. As to sex ed, this is the most sexually educated generation in history, and both abortions and out of wedlock births are rampant, so that doesn't seem to work well.

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Consider there are greater truths in people lives than just the abortion issue, especially for women with little resources and support.

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What greater truth is there than the worth and value of a human life?

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What greater truth is there than the worth and value of a human life?

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Jl you are fortunate you live in a place where that thought is even contemplated

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Jl you are fortunate you live in a place where that thought is even contemplated

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Good thought. Life is cheap in most of the world.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Not sure how I'm bullying anyone. At any rate, learning what actually goes on during an abortion is certainly an education. As to sex ed, this is the most sexually educated generation in history, and both abortions and out of wedlock births are rampant, so that doesn't seem to work well.

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Not you personally is the bully, and sex ed is just the beginning of an education which makes more mistakes than it helps with the one size fits all approach that just skims the top and doesn't address real deep emotional or mental challenges that kids face NOW. Simply to many fall through the cracks for a variety of reasons. Too many are SHOVED through those cracks and who cares about them.

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What greater truth is there than the worth and value of a human life?

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Kids aren't stupid, and they see the value of a human life is not worth that much. We teach them that everyday in many areas of life. By we I mean the structure of our society that makes some undesirable, unwanted, and by no means supported, so it's every dog for themselves and the big dogs eat the little dogs.

Some people are worth more than others is the lesson we pass on to the next generation, because that's the lesson this generation learned from the last. Look around guy and you can see the symptoms of a society that's been SICK an awful long time but who cares as long as I worked so hard to get mine.

That's the real history of America and you want to make it great AGAIN? FOR WHO! For too many it never has been that great for them, and they don't see that changing.

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Not you personally is the bully, and sex ed is just the beginning of an education which makes more mistakes than it helps with the one size fits all approach that just skims the top and doesn't address real deep emotional or mental challenges that kids face NOW. Simply to many fall through the cracks for a variety of reasons. Too many are SHOVED through those cracks and who cares about them.

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Don't you find it strange that we are engaging in all of these educational efforts, and yet out of wedlock births are fantastically greater than they were in 1960 as are abortions? All of these educational programs sure don't seem to be working. You think maybe we should ask ourselves what we did in 1960 that worked so well?

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Some people are worth more than others is the lesson we pass on to the next generation, because that's the lesson this generation learned from the last. Look around guy and you can see the symptoms of a society that's been SICK an awful long time but who cares as long as I worked so hard to get mine.

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Then you're saying you are starting to come around on this issue of abortion? What greater display of the cheapness of human life could you have than the wanton killing of unborn children?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

maybe we should ask ourselves what we did in 1960 that worked so well?

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There were fewer of us, social media didn't exist, movies and tv shows promoted family life, churches were full on Sunday mornings....

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Then you're saying you are starting to come around on this issue of abortion? What greater display of the cheapness of human life could you have than the wanton killing of unborn children?

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What about the wanton killing of born children at our southern border?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Don't you find it strange that we are engaging in all of these educational efforts, and yet out of wedlock births are fantastically greater than they were in 1960 as are abortions? All of these educational programs sure don't seem to be working. You think maybe we should ask ourselves what we did in 1960 that worked so well?

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Attitudes about marriage have changed greatly and in the 1960's there was no information about abortions, because it was underground in secret and never discussed only whispered about. The 60's was also the time of social upheaval, wars and civil rights. The start of the age of Aquarius sex drugs and rock and roll, because people were tired of the same old repackaged hypocrisy, and in the closet was no way to live. Returning vets of color still had to use the back door of establishments and especially after 'Nam, nothing changed at home and it was the same crap they left to defend a country that still treated them like second class crap.

Maybe things worked for you in the 60's, but it was just more lip service and BS and how long have you ignored that and still do? Don't you find it strange that our views are so vastly different?

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Then you're saying you are starting to come around on this issue of abortion? What greater display of the cheapness of human life could you have than the wanton killing of unborn children?

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Naw the unborn is the least of my problems as adults and children treated like crap is a bit distracting.

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That's the real history of America and you want to make it great AGAIN? FOR WHO! For too many it never has been that great for them, and they don't see that changing.

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Now Tal don't be bitter, Trump has lifted many out of poverty, giving them employment in his hotels and resorts, he wants everyone to have a minimum wage job

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There were fewer of us, social media didn't exist, movies and tv shows promoted family life, churches were full on Sunday mornings....

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The "fewer of us" has nothing to do with the rates of out of wedlock births. Social media??? Now as to entertainment and church, you are on the right path.

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What about the wanton killing of born children at our southern border?

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I don't think that is happening (wanton killing), but if it is it should be stopped immediately.

How about abortion???

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Attitudes about marriage have changed greatly and in the 1960's there was no information about abortions, because it was underground in secret and never discussed only whispered about. The 60's was also the time of social upheaval, wars and civil rights. The start of the age of Aquarius sex drugs and rock and roll, because people were tired of the same old repackaged hypocrisy, and in the closet was no way to live. Returning vets of color still had to use the back door of establishments and especially after 'Nam, nothing changed at home and it was the same crap they left to defend a country that still treated them like second class crap.

Maybe things worked for you in the 60's, but it was just more lip service and BS and how long have you ignored that and still do? Don't you find it strange that our views are so vastly different?

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Yes. Many things have changed, and much of it is not for the good. But again, what were we doing in 60 when out of wedlock births were a fraction of what they are now? Abortion numbers? Yeah, they know what they were, and it was much less than now.

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Naw the unborn is the least of my problems as adults and children treated like crap is a bit distracting.

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So you're in the "I couldn't care less" camp? Sad.

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Now Tal don't be bitter, Trump has lifted many out of poverty, giving them employment in his hotels and resorts, he wants everyone to have a minimum wage job

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Clete, unemployment in Aussie is 5.2%. In the U.S. it is 3.5%. Maybe you guys need to elect Trump after us.

That's sort of my point JL, I'm talking about one thing, and you're talking about another. You have your social issues and I have mine. Of course you think yours are more important, and I'm fighting for my life and kids and grandkids like my parents before me and before them. It's not like I don't care, but you must understand I'm a bit busy with those that weren't aborted, and need all the help I can give them.

Speaking of the dufus since you brought him up, it's being reported that the offenses he is being impeached for was the tip of the iceberg. He pulled the same stunt with the previous president by with holding military aid until they agreed not to get stuff on Manafort, and not to cooperate with Mueller, and Manafort was the one who convinced the dufus that Ukraine was helping dems against him. Of course we all remember this from 2016.

Yeah Clete take the dufus off our hands, give him a golf course to putz around in.

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That's sort of my point JL, I'm talking about one thing, and you're talking about another. You have your social issues and I have mine. Of course you think yours are more important, and I'm fighting for my life and kids and grandkids like my parents before me and before them. It's not like I don't care, but you must understand I'm a bit busy with those that weren't aborted, and need all the help I can give them.

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I'm not suggesting you make it your number one mission in life. I am suggesting you take a solid stand for life and oppose it.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Speaking of the dufus since you brought him up, it's being reported that the offenses he is being impeached for was the tip of the iceberg. He pulled the same stunt with the previous president by with holding military aid until they agreed not to get stuff on Manafort, and not to cooperate with Mueller, and Manafort was the one who convinced the dufus that Ukraine was helping dems against him. Of course we all remember this from 2016.

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The transcripts released today show Trump as the disgusting thug he truly is. Below, Nicole Wallace covers the bases in just 3 minutes. The recently fired ambassador is on record as fearing for her safety from that evil criminal in the White House.

In addition to your links above, there's this from Nicole ------

https://twitter.com/i/status/1191463143664427008

The comparison of 1960 Vs. Today in terms of social behaviors is astute and it is fairly easy to decipher: 1960 and before was a time when it was easy to tell right from wrong, black from white, good from bad.....1960 forward, particularly 1965 forward, SOCIAL ENGINEERS got bust trying to destroy the U.S. from the inside out: A lot of the was induced by the same bunch who put together "THE GREAT SOCIETY" where "Hoods"/Government Housing Projects started sprouting up all around the U.S.'s major metropolitan centers....also, right on the heels of the "Great Society" introduction, the rise of illegitimate children born to Black women skyrocketed to what it is today: the highest of any race....BEFORE "The Great Society", the occurrence of illegitimate children in Blacks was the lowest of any race.

One goal of the Social Engineers was to blur the lines between right and wrong, black and white, good and evil....and WE LET THEM.

Not to throw gasoline on the fire but the 1960s was also the decade where the MAJORITY RULE WENT STUPID AND STARTED BENDING TO THE DEMANDS AND WHIMS OF THE MINORITY: How else do you explain how the Madeline O'Hare was able to damn near single-handily take any reference to God out of the classroom......and our social behaviors declined sharply.

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

... take any reference to God out of the classroom......and our social behaviors declined sharply.

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God doesn't belong in a public school classroom. I lived through that during the '50s. God belongs in the home and church.

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God doesn't belong in a public school classroom. I lived through that during the '50s. God belongs in the home and church.

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You need to be sure to tell God where He belongs and where He does not belong. I imagine He will be surprised to find that out.

God wasn't removed from the school, students are free to pray whenever they like to whatever God they like. What was removed was the mandatory nature of compelling students to listen to whatever school officials deemed they should, and removing the local LAWS and ordinances that made it mandatory in public schools as unconstitutional. That applies to ALL religions not just Christianity.

There is no such restriction in private schools as far as I know.

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God wasn't removed from the school, students are free to pray whenever they like to whatever God they like. What was removed was the mandatory nature of compelling students to listen to whatever school officials deemed they should, and removing the local LAWS and ordinances that made it mandatory in public schools as unconstitutional. That applies to ALL religions not just Christianity.

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How does that seem to be working out?

A very simple solution would be going to educational vouchers and allowing parents to make the choices of whether or not their children should be taught religious principles (such as prayer) in school. It always amuses me that the same people who argue that women should have the "choice" to have their unborn child killed in abortion will then deny school choice to parents once the surviving children are ready for school.

You making a direct link between mandatory school prayer and the state of our union? Why not money in politics, or the cult of hate or explotation of cheap labor, or all the above being contributing factors? Why not crime and corruption? Why not years and decades of no wage growth? Why not economic slavery and isolation? Why not closing plants and moving oversees? Why not your own attitude about who gets to tell people what to do?

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You making a direct link between mandatory school prayer and the state of our union? Why not money in politics, or the cult of hate or explotation of cheap labor, or all the above being contributing factors? Why not crime and corruption? Why not years and decades of no wage growth? Why not economic slavery and isolation? Why not closing plants and moving oversees? Why not your own attitude about who gets to tell people what to do?

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It was a simple question. Since we took prayer and the Ten Commandments out of school, which direction has the country, and young people in particular, taken? The other things you listed have been going on as long as we've had our country. Some of what you listed, such as no wage growth, are flatly untrue.

My attitude about who gets to tell people what to do? That's absurd considering that it's what everyone on this board, including you, is doing. We all argue for various positions. Try to avoid the "holier than thou" approach.