Ask Me Help Desk - Trump would look at dirt about opponent from foreign sources Oh the outrage !

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For the record I and many others are not bound by your religious interpretations, nor are your fellow Christians.

For the record, when did I say you were?

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It personally doesn't matter what you believe only that you voted for and support the policies of a PROVEN liar and cheater.

In the 2016 election, we were presented a choice between two liars/cheaters. You voted for one and I voted for the other. I'm not sure how that gives you ownership of the moral high ground.

Besides, on what basis do you say that lying if immoral? Is that merely your own opinion, or do you have a higher authority to appeal to?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Not true. It's on the level of saying we determine what is legal based on personal impressions of the Constitution.

You do know, do you not, that the Constitution has to be interpreted? The interpretation is performed by the personal (informed) impressions of the judges.

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You would have to understand the circumstances of the invasion of Canaan. I don't think you do.

You just struck a blow for the relativity of morality. And managed to insult me at the same time. A doubleheader! I thought you frowned on personal attacks. We all await your understanding of invading Canaan.

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Read the prophecies of Daniel and Isaiah 53 and get back with us.

I don't think I will, but if you wish to make your point here re those prophecies, I'll be more than happy to read your take.

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Check out the empty tomb and let us know what you think.

I can do this from memory but you need to be more specific for me to relate what I think about the empty tomb.

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Read the accounts of the life of Jesus.

I've read the Gospels many times. I like them. Your point?

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To suggest that the Bible has no basis for authority is simply not true.

I said its basis was self-referential. That means its claim to authority is found within itself. There is no evidence outside itself that makes the claim it derives its authority from God. None.

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I said its basis was self-referential. That means its claim to authority is found within itself. There is no evidence outside itself that makes the claim it derives its authority from God. None.

Read my previous answer again.

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You just struck a blow for the relativity of morality. And managed to insult me at the same time. A doubleheader! I thought you frowned on personal attacks. We all await your understanding of invading Canaan.

There was no personal attack. I simply said I didn't think you understood the circumstances. If you think that is a personal attack, then you must lead a sheltered life. The inhabitants of Canaan had been given 400 years to move towards God and had refused. The culture was so unspeakably wicked and depraved that nothing remained but to eliminate it, much as what happened at Sodom. You forget that God is still the judge of the whole earth. But that was not a blanket command to go out and wipe out whole cities as a matter of course.

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I don't think I will, but if you wish to make your point here re those prophecies, I'll be more than happy to read your take.

I didn't think you would.

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I've read the Gospels many times. I like them. Your point?

That when you perform miracles and are raised from the dead, then I will grant authority to you. Until then, I think I'll stick with the words of the man who did perform miracles and was raised from the dead.

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You do know, do you not, that the Constitution has to be interpreted? The interpretation is performed by the personal (informed) impressions of the judges.

It is interpreted in its application, but the basis form of our government is clearly spelled out. That does not prevent corrupt men/women from injecting their own ideas into the mix, but a common sense reading of the Constitituion would reveal that. If, for instance, the SC decided that it was illegal to print newspapers, it would be easy to disprove that. The Bible is the same way. So yes, they have to be read and understood, but not on the basis of mere personal impressions. Words still have meaning.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Read my previous answer again.

Please refresh my memory. What exactly did you write that disputed the fact that the Bible is self-referential (as I explained to you). I can find nothing, which is why I ask for your help.

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The inhabitants of Canaan had been given 400 years to move towards God and had refused. The culture was so unspeakably wicked and depraved that nothing remained but to eliminate it, much as what happened at Sodom.

Your answer borders on blasphemy. To attribute to God the things that are the devil's may be the unforgivable sin. But let's bring it down to our level. The "wickedness" of Canaan, you must realize, is attested to by the Hebrew scribes - the victors. You know what they say about the victors and the vanquished when history is written, don't you? We don't have the other side (the Canaan side) of the story. Even so, the punishment was pretty drastic.

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You forget that God is still the judge of the whole earth.

I haven't forgotten that for a moment, but the god you describe is not the God I believe in. Mine doesn't go around slaughtering whole families because of wickedness. Mine preaches forgiveness. And exactly how is a child wicked?

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But that was not a blanket command to go out and wipe out whole cities as a matter of course.

Gee, that makes me feel so much better.

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I haven't forgotten that for a moment, but the god you describe is not the God I believe in. Mine doesn't go around slaughtering whole families because of wickedness. Mine preaches forgiveness. And exactly how is a child wicked?

I am describing the God of the Bible. If you serve a different god, then you are free to do that. I understood we were describing the God of the Bible. If you want to question the accuracy of the narrative, then I don't know why you would believe any of it.

As to the authority of the Bible, go back and read my previous answer and think carefully about it.

This came in later - in for a penny, in for a pound.

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=jlisenbe;3836763I didn't think you would.

If you knew, why did you ask? You still have the chance to make your point.

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That when you perform miracles and are raised from the dead, then I will grant authority to you. Until then, I think I'll stick with the words of the man who did perform miracles and was raised from the dead.

There's much more to the Bible than the words of Jesus.

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a common sense reading of the Constitituion would reveal that. If, for instance, the SC decided that it was illegal to print newspapers, it would be easy to disprove that.

Thank you. You are proving my point. "Common sense", informed conscience is required - not simply a claim to authority. That's how Kings operated in the world the USA left behind.

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The Bible is the same way. So yes, they have to be read and understood, but not on the basis of mere personal impressions.

At root, there is nothing else but "mere" personal impressions. That's how everything starts when examining any proposition. Cogito, ergo sum.

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Words still have meaning.

Sorry, but this is hilarious coming from you. Your difficulty with the meaning of words is well-known. Well, I think I just insulted you, but truth may be a defense.

So men in states that make laws that go against the Constitution would be wrong?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I am describing the God of the Bible.

Actually, we were discussing the Bible's claim to authority. You brought up the Canaan business and the Bible God slaughtering everybody.

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If you serve a different god,

Well, we apparently do since I don't believe in a god as monstrous as yours.

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If you want to question the accuracy of the narrative, then I don't know why you would believe any of it.

That's called a non-sequitur. Much of the Bible is accurate but not always in a literal sense. There are members here who have studied the Bible in a scholarly way, and they may be able to give you some guidance.

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As to the authority of the Bible, go back and read my previous answer and think carefully about it.

I've responded twice now to this, and you have yet to explain your meaning. Don't say I didn't give you a chance.

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"Common sense", informed conscience is required - not simply a claim to authority.

That is the root of our disagreement. Words have meaning and convey meaning. Conscience is not the deciding factor so much as the words. As it says in Matthew, "And they *sent their disciples to Him, along with the Herodians, saying, “Teacher, we know that You are truthful and teach the way of God in truth, and defer to no one; for You are not partial to any."

Being truthful is the key, and for that to happen there must be an objective standard of truth that resides above the conscience and thoughts of mere men like you and me.

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I've responded twice now to this, and you have yet to explain your meaning. Don't say I didn't give you a chance.

And this my third time to suggest you read carefully my first answer. I have given you a chance as well.

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That's called a non-sequitur. Much of the Bible is accurate but not always in a literal sense.

Unsurprisingly, I do not agree. The text of Joshua is very plain and I know of no one who seriously suggests it is metaphorical. Now you don't like the outcome, and I see that, but if you set aside a text because it displeases you, then you make yourself out to be the judge and not God. I much prefer God show me what displeases Him since it is His opinion that really matters .

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So men in states that make laws that go against the Constitution would be wrong?

First of all, don't you think it is sexist of you to limit law-making to men? (<:

Would it be legally wrong? Yes, so long as you bear in mind that the Constitution sets plain limits on the power of the fed government. Would it be morally wrong? Depends, but then I am the only one on this thread that seems to have a moral standard that is above the opinions of men, so that might not be a fair observation for you to respond to.

Added note: Lest he sharply rebuke me, I must note that Clete, I believe, regards the Bible as authoritative.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

First of all, don't you think it is sexist of you to limit law-making to men? (<:

Would it be legally wrong? Yes, so long as you bear in mind that the Constitution sets plain limits on the power of the fed government. Would it be morally wrong? Depends, but then I am the only one on this thread that seems to have a moral standard that is above the opinions of men, so that might not be a fair observation for you to respond to.

Added note: Lest he sharply rebuke me, I must note that Clete, I believe, regards the Bible as authoritative.

Your a card, with or without humor, arrogance, loony fonts.

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Your a card, with or without humor, arrogance, loony fonts.

Someone has to cheer up this thread!! Still plan on buying you that cup of coffee one of these days.

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Athos: Much of the Bible is accurate but not always in a literal sense.

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JL: Unsurprisingly, I do not agree.

Is. 55:12 -- The mountains and hills will burst into song, and the trees of the field will clap their hands!

I did not agree that my reference was a non-sequitur. You must be more careful about your partial quotes. Also, I have explained in previous posts that I understand that some parts of the Bible are metaphors, analogies, or idioms. Is your memory fading???

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I did not agree that my reference was a non-sequitur. You must be more careful about your partial quotes. Also, I have explained in previous posts that I understand that some parts of the Bible are metaphors, analogies, or idioms. Is your memory fading???

Oh, silly me! You do it, so I figured anyone else can too.

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Oh, silly me! You do it, so I figured anyone else can too.

I'll let it slide this time, but it must not happen again. (symbol for humor)

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I'll let it slide this time, but it must not happen again. (symbol for humor)

Oh, yeah. I'm supposed to be a submissive woman. I keep forgetting.

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Oh, yeah. I'm supposed to be a submissive woman. I keep forgetting.

You see? Your memory is fading! Thank goodness I'm here to remind you of these things. It's a tough job, but someone has to do it.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I must note that Clete, I believe, regards the Bible as authoritative.

When the Lord is silent, refer to what he has previously said.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

When the Lord is silent, refer to what he has previously said.

God is never silent, humans just may not be listening. Perhaps we are saying the same thing basically Clete? For sure there doesn't seem to be any evidence the dufus listens to God, or have I missed something here?