Quote:

---

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Steve:

I don't disagree. Yours is a worthy goal. But, change is a two way street..

Me??? I'd like to see efforts toward reducing unwanted pregnancies in the first place. But, it's probably going to involve a change in culture that you're not willing to engage in.

That would be a change to one where sex education is taught in schools, birth control for everybody - including TEENS, Plan B in ALL drug stores, and health care for all..

I somehow think those aren't cultural changes you'd be willing to make.

excon

PS> Do I think abstinence works??? Yes. Teach it at home and in your church.

---

Absolutely excon, they don't call it unwanted pregnancy for nothing... it's unwanted. Sex education is crucial and so is easy access to birth control. This is not to promote sex, this is just plain old common sense and to not do this is just plain naïve.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Steve:

I don't disagree. Yours is a worthy goal. But, change is a two way street..

Me??? I'd like to see efforts toward reducing unwanted pregnancies in the first place. But, it's probably going to involve a change in culture that you're not willing to engage in.

That would be a change to one where sex education is taught in schools, birth control for everybody - including TEENS, Plan B in ALL drug stores, and health care for all..

I somehow think those aren't cultural changes you'd be willing to make.

excon

PS> Do I think abstinence works??? Yes. Teach it at home and in your church.

---

We've been round and round on this before, too. I don't object to sex education, I object to Planned Parenthood and the other abortion zealots' agenda being forced on children without regard to the parent's values and wishes. You do believe parents should still be allowed to be the parents don't you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

We've been round and round on this before, too. I don't object to sex education, I object to Planned Parenthood and the other abortion zealots' agenda being forced on children without regard to the parent's values and wishes. You do believe parents should still be allowed to be the parents don't you?

---

See, that's where you lose credibility. When the sarcasm sets in. No one ever said parents shouldn't be parents. Forget the agendas of abortion zealots. Who cares about them? Don't you care more about the bottom line? That unwanted pregnancies are avoided and that abortions aren't needed.

This reminds me of those poor children being brainwashed and subjected to religious indoctrination at an age when they can't even pick out their own clothes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cozyk

[/B]

See, that's where you lose credibility. When the sarcasm sets in. No one ever said parents shouldn't be parents. Forget the agendas of abortion zealots. Who cares about them? Don't you care more about the bottom line? That unwanted pregnancies are avoided and that abortions aren't needed.

---

There was no sarcasm there, none whatsoever. I'm dead serious, PP does NOT want parents to be the parents - they have no problem whatsoever undermining parental rights. In fact, it's one of their goals and my objection falls exactly in line with my previous point. Parents should have the right to be the parent and children are too valuable for parents to be undermined by outside forces like PP. That is part of the culture that needs to be changed. I believe if PP and others like them would mind their own business instead of interfering with families and doing everything they can to “empower” children in their sex lives, unwanted pregnancies and abortions would both decline.

Hello again, Steve:

I'm ready to get off abortion for the time being... But, I'm ready for the NEW one you brought up, Steve.

You righty's have a list of, dare I say, UN American organizations, of which Planned Parenthood is one, that frighten you to death. Your list includes the ACLU and Acorn. I'm sure there's others, but that'll do for now.

In fact, I find those organizations to be very main stream American, and do the work of the Democracy. What is it about them that makes them soooo nasty?

Plus, I can't think of ONE right wing organization that scares me, or that's UN American... But, that's just me.

excon

Planned Parenthood is as American as Apple Pie. Just ask it's eugenics supporting racist founder ;Margaret Sanger .Her original idea was to have black women have abortions to reduce the number of blacks being born .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

There was no sarcasm there, none whatsoever. I'm dead serious, PP does NOT want parents to be the parents - they have no problem whatsoever undermining parental rights. In fact, it's one of their goals and my objection falls exactly in line with my previous point. Parents should have the right to be the parent and children are too valuable for parents to be undermined by outside forces like PP. That is part of the culture that needs to be changed. I believe if PP and others like them would mind their own business instead of interfering with families and doing everything they can to “empower” children in their sex lives, unwanted pregnancies and abortions would both decline.

---

Well that would be great IF we could count on parents doing the parental thing correctly. Unfortunately not all parents are responsible, concerned, smart enough themselves, have embarrassment hang ups, think it's giving their child the green light, are naïve, or have delusions that THEIR child wouldn't do such things. What is your solution for the kids that fall into this BROAD category? Get it at home, or not at all? I'm really looking forward to your solution to this problem because I know you must have one or you would not be so totally against kids of ignorant parents getting some outside guidance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

This reminds me of those poor children being brainwashed and subjected to religious indoctrination at an age when they can't even pick out their own clothes.

---

Ah, so let's let Planned Parenthood, the schools and the government brainwash our kids, but NOT the parents.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cozyk

Well that would be great IF we could count on parents doing the parental thing correctly. Unfortunately not all parents are responsible, concerned, smart enough themselves, have embarrassment hang ups, think it's giving their child the green light, are naive, or have delusions that THEIR child wouldn't do such things. What is your solution for the kids that fall into this BROAD category? Get it at home, or not at all? I'm really looking forward to your solution to this problem because I know you must have one or you would not be so totally against kids of ignorant parents getting some outside guidance.

---

Again and again and again, I have always supported APPROPRIATE intervention under APPROPRIATE circumstances. I don't however believe most parents in this country are incompetent so the government, PP and everyone else needs to get the hell out of the way and mind their own business when it comes to parents raising their children.

Funny, but every time some abortion supporter argues that women should have the right to choose what to do with THEIR bodies it seems they end up telling us parents don't necessarily have the right to raise THEIR children. How do you reconcile that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by excon

You righty's have a list of, dare I say, UN American organizations, of which Planned Parenthood is one, that frighten you to death. Your list includes the ACLU and Acorn. I'm sure there's others, but that'll do for now.

In fact, I find those organizations to be very main stream American, and do the work of the Democracy. what is it about them that makes them soooo nasty?

Plus, I can't think of ONE right wing organization that scares me, or that's UN American... But, that's just me.

excon

---

I never said PP was un-American, I say they're a dangerous, despicable, dishonest, lawbreaking, undermining, pathetic, useless waste of resources and space. They COULD be a decent organization otherwise. The other two have pros and cons, too - they do some good things, but on their worst day I don't believe they even come close to being as vile as Planned Parenthood.

There may not be any that scare you, but just mention Fox News, PNAC, Focus on the Family and a few others and watch the knees jerk all around you.

I don't know much but this seems to me like a failed attempt at propaganda.

I think it's cool a lot of people like him. They show his by waring Obama shirts and crap. But if you ask me, it reminds me of some sort of cult. Nobody was waring Bush shirts!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WATT

I don't know much but this seems to me like a failed attempt at propaganda.

---

Which part? As for my part I've documented Planned Parenthood's sleaze here many times. Feel free to look it up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by topladyj

I think it's cool alot of people like him. They show his by waring Obama shirts and crap. But if you ask me, it reminds me of some sort of cult. Nobody was waring Bush shirts!

---

I saw pictures of young republicans wearing T-shirts that had a W on them at the RNC when Bush ran for re-election. All the other Bush T-shirts were not so flattering to G DUB.

Yeah I saw the perverted ones but it's almost like a cult how many people are waring them lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Again and again and again, I have always supported APPROPRIATE intervention under APPROPRIATE circumstances. I don't however believe most parents in this country are incompetent so the government, PP and everyone else needs to get the hell out of the way and mind their own business when it comes to parents raising their children.

Funny, but every time some abortion supporter argues that women should have the right to choose what to do with THEIR bodies it seems they end up telling us parents don't necessarily have the right to raise THEIR children. How do you reconcile that?

---

You left out your solution for the percentage of kids that fall under the umbrella of parents that DON'T teach their children. No one is putting limits on how you raise your children, what you teach them, etc. If you are doing a good job with that, then you have nothing to worry about do you? So what are you so upset about?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Ah, so let's let Planned Parenthood, the schools and the government brainwash our kids, but NOT the parents.

---

Are you saying parents SHOULD brainwash their kids?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I never said PP was un-American, I say they're a dangerous, despicable, dishonest, lawbreaking, undermining, pathetic, useless waste of resources and space. They COULD be a decent organization otherwise. The other two have pros and cons, too - they do some good things, but on their worst day I don't believe they even come close to being as vile as Planned Parenthood.

There may not be any that scare you, but just mention Fox News, PNAC, Focus on the Family and a few others and watch the knees jerk all around you.

---

What has PP done to you that illicits so much hatred and venom? They haven't touched my life at all. I've taught my children about love, sex, commitment, birth control, and good planning in general, which covers decisions about sex. If they hear other things out in the world, I couldn't care less. Why, because I know they get it. If they are taught correctly, then it doesn't matter what they hear on the street, in the locker room, in a sex ed class, or from any PP lit. They have the knowledge. For kids that don't, I hope they get the right knowledge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cozyk

Are you saying parents SHOULD brainwash their kids?

---

I knew someone would ask that. Responsible parents should be left alone to raise their children WITHOUT interference from ANYONE.