Everyone but conservatives and babies are a protected class to the left.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

you see.......citizen and brown bag are 'old school' .....Rachel Jeantel told me dat .
Morgan Freeman is a victim of this madness too... he no longer can use the words 'black hole' when discussing the universe on his show

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So how will we distinguish between mustards? I know, clear jars and 'no labels.'

For one, they are not cadillac plans, and for two, unions negotiate. That's how issues are resolved through negotiating, and what's wrong with having a union of workers with a voice to shape their own interest?

Oh that's right, wingers don't believe workers have any rights. Masters and slaves is your broken business model right? Or is it the workers are greedy and lazy and the rich guy with the millions is the victim? That's loony all right!

As loony as thinking a fair shake is a protected class of people!!

Were that true to might have a point but as usual you're trapped in fantasyland. And still excusing your own cronyism.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

For one, they are not cadillac plans, and for two, unions negotiate. That's how issues are resolved thru negotiating, and what's wrong with having a union of workers with a voice to shape their own interest?

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Sure they can negotiate their own deal with whom they deal with. But when it comes to health care its not up for negotiation. That is up to the membership to determine. And if they want a cadillac plan then they can pay for it as recommended by Obamacare. They shouldn't get a break. Why should they?

Oh dea, Give it up please, this is business as usual

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Originally Posted by cdad

Sure they can negotiate their own deal with whom they deal with. But when it comes to health care its not up for negotiation. That is up to the membership to determine. And if they want a cadillac plan then they can pay for it as recommended by Obamacare. They shouldnt get a break. Why should they?

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I think you miss the fact that they already know that. No where have they asked for a FREE Cadillac plan, NO WHERE.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

I think you miss the fact that they already know that. No where have they asked for a FREE Cadillac plan, NO WHERE.

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It's called the Cadillac tax part of Obamacare.

Obamacare Is Forcing Cuts to High-End Health Plans, and Not Just For the Rich | Mother Jones

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Originally Posted by talaniman

I think you miss the fact that they already know that. No where have they asked for a FREE Cadillac plan, NO WHERE.

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They are asking for exemptions from the law because of the plans they receive. They don't want to pay the tax like everyone else.

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Even before Obamacare became law, health plan costs for workers had been rising for years. Some worry that the Cadillac tax will just be used as an excuse to bump up costs even more. Tom Leibfried, a legislative director for the labor federation AFL-CIO, one of the unions whose plans will be hit by the tax, says "We're very concerned about the hollowing out of benefits in general. What the [Cadillac] tax will do is just fuel that."

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Time to address the problems dude.

You know the way you solve this and maybe you have already done it, but you mandate a standard of care to be met by all insurers and then if the individual wants more cover they pay a higher premium. Instantly you may have to renegotiate some labour contracts or you may not but if you get this down to every work place being down for negotiations then you have invented chaos

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Originally Posted by paraclete

You know the way you solve this and maybe you have already done it, but you mandate a standard of care to be met by all insurers and then if the individual wants more cover they pay a higher premium.

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Yes that is a basic the lefties overlook. Their idea of basic care is abortion pills for everyone .You should see some of the nonsense my family coverage picks up because of NY state mandates.

See this is why you have a federally administered system, one size fits all, it's time you stopped this state nonsense and had government for all the people

Or someone could privately contract with their insurance company and choose from a variety of options . As an example... I'd prefer to pay for checkups and routine medical care without insurance ;and purchase catastrophic coverage only. Others may want to have a massage paid by the insurance company. Short of that ,I would've preferred that insurance was portable and maybe I could've picked up a plan in a state that doesn't cover transformer sex change operations or male sex performance medication.

By all means why don't you all do this, but no, you still want someoneelse to pay, take a pay cut and arrange your own insurance, you will get the product you can afford or not as the case may be, you see sooner or later the system sinks under its own weight. Now this is true of your system or of ours but I know whose going first, and its all those overpaid medicos

Private bureaucrats looking to increase profits and be a middle man between the service and the consumer has always been a force pushing costs up, and benefits/services/ down.

Even Tom admits the capitalist model is broken. But who wants to fix it, and how? Certainly not those that reap profit from the system as is, with magnanimous growth. I mean an economy driven by hoarding cannot be successful for its citizens.

As opposed to the Government taking even more of the money pie... and giving far less back in exchange...

Yeah... fix it my making it worse by orders of magnitude... yeah.. thats the ticket.

Government has demonstrated how efficient they are in everything else ( sarcasm font engaged)... lets trust them with this too.

Ordinary Americans may not be getting their due process with all the snooping these days, but someone is.

Al-Qaeda Backers Found With U.S. Contracts in Afghanistan

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Supporters of the Taliban and al-Qaeda in Afghanistan have been getting U.S. military contracts, and American officials are citing “due process rights” as a reason not to cancel the agreements, according to an independent agency monitoring spending.

The U.S. Army Suspension and Debarment Office has declined to act in 43 such cases, John Sopko, the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction, said today in a letter accompanying a quarterly report to Congress.

“I am deeply troubled that the U.S. military can pursue, attack, and even kill terrorists and their supporters, but that some in the U.S. government believe we cannot prevent these same people from receiving a government contract,” Sopko said.

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Words fail me.

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Even Tom admits the capitalist model is broken. But who wants to fix it, and how?

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No I don't .What I do say is progressive interference in the capitalist business model prevents it's benefits from being fully realized .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

No I don't .What I do say is progressive interference in the capitalist business model prevents it's benefits from being fully realized .

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Tom thinks the capitalist model is perfect just as he thinks the constitutional model is perfect. This is not a time for idealist ideologies. The only people who can realise the benefits of the capitalist model Tom, are the wealthy. Their power must be curbed in the interests of the population who deserve to be more than slaves. The idea that if the Lord didn't want them to be shorn he wouldn't have made them sheep which is at the root of the capitalist model is a wrong idea. I know socialism has to be tempered also but a sharing society can prosper, the society in which I live has demonstrated the model.