Athos has way too much time on his hands. And that, he said, was brief!
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Athos has way too much time on his hands. And that, he said, was brief!
Stalking me again? You'll say anything - no matter how inconsequential - to see your name on these pages.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
And you are replying why? For a person who claimed to have me blocked you reply to everything. Troll alert??
Faith is Evidence. Faith is … the evidence of things not seen.Quote:
God Calls for faith therefore there can be no evidence, is that right? That's one way of putting it. You're starting to understand.
There is no Evidence without faith.
A thought, as an example:
One might say; It was faith, of the Patriarchs of old that brought about the Messiah.
“The greatest proof of Christianity for others is not how far a man can logically analyze his reasons for believing, but how far in practice he will stake his life on his belief.”
T. S. Eliot (1888-1965)
If you guys don't stop fighting, I'm going to tell Mom!
God brought about the Messiah and first promised that Messiah to Adam and Eve. The patriarchs had nothing to do with bringing about the Messiah--Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
I never claimed to have you blocked. I claimed to ignore you, which I have done for the most part. I do not reply to everything from you. As I have told you, only some things you say do I reply. One of the reasons (among several) is shown right here - the way you twist words to your own advantage, discarding the truth. You have all the characteristics of a troll.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Takes one to know one. Eh? And as I’m sure you know, blocks here are on the “ignore list”.
I'll assume this is a reply to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Yes, you seem to agree with my idea and with the supporting quote from Paul.
Yes, you could say that, but then you would be upsetting the Christian apple-cart.Quote:
One might say; It was faith, of the Patriarchs of old that brought about the Messiah
Great quote from TS. In the earliest days, it was said that the Christian's actions and behavior were what drew others to them, not their beliefs.Quote:
“The greatest proof of Christianity for others is not how far a man can logically analyze his reasons for believing, but how far in practice he will stake his life on his belief.”
LOL. If that's about Jl and me, be advised that I rarely reply to him, but he invariably has a snarky comment to me even when I ignore him. You could look it up. (I'll admit to my own snarky comments every so often - it's the nature of the beast).Quote:
If you guys don't stop fighting, I'm going to tell Mom!
Since you have not challenged the rest of my not-too-brief post, I'll assume you're in general agreement with it. Or at least not against it. The wheels of progress grind exceedingly slow.
I don't know what you mean, so what you're "sure you know" is ..................... (fill in the word).Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
[QUOTE fm Jl/]
"(5) Cosmological constant(which controls the expansion speed of the universe) refers to the balance of the attractive force of gravity with a hypothesized repulsive force of space observable only at very large size scales. It must be very close to zero, that is, these two forces must be nearly perfectly balanced. To get the right balance, the cosmological constant must be fine-tuned to something like 1 part in 10120. If it were just slightly more positive, the universe would fly apart; slightly negative, and the universe would collapse.As with the cosmological constant, the ratios of the other constants must be fine-tuned relative to each other. Since the logically-possible range of strengths of some forces is potentially infinite, to get a handle on the precision of fine-tuning, theorists often think in terms of the range of force strengths, with gravity the weakest, and the strong nuclear force the strongest. The strong nuclear force is 1040 times stronger than gravity, that is, ten thousand, billion, billion, billion, billion times the strength of gravity. Think of that range as represented by a ruler stretching across the entire observable universe, about 15 billion light years. If we increased the strength of gravity by just 1 part in 1034 of the range of force strengths (the equivalent of moving less than one inch on the universe-long ruler), the universe couldn’t have life sustaining planets."[/QUOTE]
When I first replied to this post, the above hadn't yet been posted. So here I am, catching up.
The rebuttal is simple, but I'm doing it anyway, since some passers-by may be impressed by the big words Jl has copied.
Simply put, none of the above proves the existence of God. That should be obvious to anyone.
Not definitive.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Used as an analogy, maybe. Hardly, evidence.Quote:
Actually, it has been used as evidence for God for a long, long time. It's called the moral argument.
The fine tuning is incredible. Not evidence, tho.Quote:
Actually, the data for gravity is very well understood and it is that data that tells us that the fine tuning is incredible as the material I posted at the bottom of the page clearly showed.
"Eye-witness" testimony from a book is, by definition, not eye-witness. It's hearsay.Quote:
it does begin with what is historically valid evidence, and that is eye witness testimony from hundreds of individuals.
Not evidence for God's existence. People suffer and die willingly for many reasons.Quote:
Then there is the willingness of those witnesses to suffer greatly and, in fact, die in defense of it.
Need I say this is not evidence?Quote:
There is the changing of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday which for Jews would have been unthinkable.
None of their writings are evidence of the existence of God (Christian).Quote:
The extra-biblical evidence is very strong including Tacitus, Josephus, Pliny the Younger, and others.
Not only is it not "great" evidence. it is not evidence at all! You really need to understand what evidence is - especially since you made such a point of it previously..Quote:
The incredibly rapid spread of the Christian faith, against great opposition and including great persecution of those who believed, with not one shred of military operations to support it, is great evidence.
What is the point of your point? Surely, not that it's evidence?Quote:
For something to wind down, it must at first been wound up. That is presently characterized as the Big Bang. The point is that the universe is not a repeating cycle.
Please demonstrate empirically that it is evidence for the existence of God.Quote:
My comment about life was not an observation. It is empirically demonstrable.
Did you ever hear of "people in glass house shouldn't throw stones"? That's you to a "T".Quote:
You have no substantial science background,
A lack of knowledge for claiming that the spiritual has been "scientifically proven", etc. That's a nonsense, untrue statement from anybody, let alone a scientist.Quote:
and yet you decided that Jastrow had an "odd lack of knowledge"
I never regret the truth of what I say. Shall I say it again? Jastrow was WRONG!Quote:
It was, for you, a regrettable statement.
No idea what this means. Do you know?Quote:
If you don't want to wear it, then don't put it on.
Did we read the same thing? He was not using a single piece of evidence to demonstrate his point.Quote:
Semi-fair point except that he was using a great deal of evidence to make his point.
There was no need to. The truth of my statement is self-evident.Quote:
Perhaps you should have qualified your statement by "I think"
Are you looking for an Excuse for those without faith...not plainly seeing any evidence of God? We Know that this is true: God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been "clearly seen," being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.Quote:
Faith is Evidence. Faith is … the evidence of things not seen.
Anyway you wish to look at it, the evidence is there. Faith applied in your life equals God, Life...Physical Evidence without faith (all other religions) brings Hellfire, Death.
Jesus being the Son of God...Jesus being God, has the same effect and is Equally divisive.
Example: Jesus is the Son of God! Why do most Christian's have a problem with that? The Converse will draw the same reaction; Jesus is God...Jesus is the Son of God, that is not a lie...Jesus is God, that is not a lie...leave it alone.
If you believe in the God of the Bible, why do you ask that question? You know there is evidence what does it matter if ""you"" (or creation) can't prove it...God has already proved it.
Any thought on those who have come to the faith by evidence (or are you thinking that is impossible) aside from faith. I finally Understand what you are talking about. I don't believe it has any relevance to the Christian Community.
It might have some relevance to the Mormon faith...I wouldn't know
Waltero - Have you read a single thing I have written? Much of your replies are far off the discussion.
Where in the world is that coming from? When you can't come up with a reply, just say so, I'll understand. Don't go writing inanities. That doesn't help your case.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Walter - You're not in a pulpit. You're on a Q&A board. You have a tendency to preach when the time is not ripe - like here and now - and about topics not being discussed. Again, if you feel out of your league, just say so, and I'll understand.Quote:
Not plainly seeing any evidence of God. But we Know that this is true also: God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been "clearly seen," being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
That's fine. But it's been two days now, and lots and lots of posts, but you STILL haven't provided evidence. What you may believe is NOT evidence. You need to get that through your head. Otherwise, you're just repeating yourself.Quote:
Anyway you wish to look at it, the evidence is there.
*sigh* remember what I told you about Christians and fear - how they show fear by threatening hell? Remember? You're doing it now.Quote:
Faith applied in your life equals God, Life...Physical Evidence without faith brings Death, Hell.
Most Christians do NOT have a problem with that. That's a major part of their belief. Now I'm forced to ask - what kind of a Christian are you? Can you name a denomination or a movement or anything to help me understand where you're coming from?Quote:
Example: Jesus is the son of God! Why do most Christian's have a problem that?
Walter, you're rambling. Are you OK?Quote:
The Converse will draw the same reaction; Jesus is God! Jesus is the Son of God, that is not a lie...Jesus is God, that is not a lie...leave it alone.
What matters is when Christians try to insist that there is evidence for the existence of God, they can't prove it. This makes the rest of their message less credible. Soon they are threatening with hell to throw fear - as you are doing right now even tho you have been warned about doing just that.Quote:
If you believe in the God of the Bible, why do you ask that question? You know there is evidence what does it matter if ""you"" (or creation) can't prove it...God has already proved it.
The worst of the Christians go so far as to threaten even non-believers with hellfire if they don't believe. That, of course, condemns most of God's creation over the millennia to damnation. Is that the kind of God you believe in? He creates people knowing the great majority of them will wind up in a fiery torture chamber for all eternity?
That's part of the reason you want your faith to grow into the adult version. Paul again,"When I was a child, I thought like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me." Time for you to dig deeper into your chosen faith.
Faith is when; Christians try to insist that there is evidence...because in there mind there is...what don't you get? It's Called faith. It is a fact and a reality even if others can't see it. Faith Speaks.Quote:
What matters is when Christians try to insist that there is evidence for the existence of God, they can't prove it
Proving it is Irrelevant. The proof is in ones life that he lives...even the Life of Christ that is in you.
That's the beauty of it. It is not what you prove (in your actions, life) it's what you Speak.
You bring Jesus into your life/reality by what you speak (the Written, Living Word). Just as God brought all of creation into reality by his Word.
I'll just leave it at that.
I might think of Hell as a man made Construct. It holds no reality in me. It will be wiped away. No memory of it. Hell might even be the only "evidence" unbelievers believe in, their reality? Fear, the opposite of faith?
Hell is not a man made construct, Jesus spoke of it, a place of eternal torment.
You speak of Faith as if it doesn't exist, perhaps you believe that is a man made construct too but Jesus also spoke of it. I don't think you have faith as big as a mustard seed and so you profane what you don't understand. What did Jesus say to Thomas?
Walter, of course I get it. Do you? A fact is an objective reality that people can see. If it's only in their mind, it may be a reality for them, but it may or may not be a fact. It's best to be careful with words and not just throw out what you feel, no matter how intensely you may feel it.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
For those who have faith, I absolutely agree. However, this topic began as evidence for the existence of God. I don't think we should just throw it away because it disturbs you.Quote:
Proving it is Irrelevant.
No argument. See my response immediately above.Quote:
The proof is in ones life that he lives...even the Life of Christ that is in you.
That's always been your privilege. But don't think you've adequately answered the question. There must have been a reason you engaged in the first place. Has something disturbed your way of thinking? That's not always a bad thing.Quote:
I'll just leave it at that.
That's EXACTLY what hell is. I'm heartened you can make that statement.Quote:
I might think of Hell as a man made Construct.
That's a major step.Quote:
It holds no reality to me and it will be wiped away.
You don't know how true that is! Very good insight. Some people key on hell and little else. They need help.Quote:
Hell might even be the only evidence unbelievers believe in.
Another good insight. In the sense we're discussing, definitely!Quote:
Fear, the opposite of faith?
No, but it reduces the possibility of a natural explanation for the universe to a vanishing point. You could say that it proves the universe has significant elements of design.Quote:
Simply put, none of the above proves the existence of God. That should be obvious to anyone.
Exactly correct. Hell and judgment are spoken of in several dozen places in the NT. To reject that is simply to place the opinion of man over the authority of the NT. "I don't like or understand the concept of hell and judgment, so I'll just pretend it is not spoken of in the NT."Quote:
Hell is not a man made construct, Jesus spoke of it, a place of eternal torment.
If you have Faith it is a reality (fact). Faith, It has to present itself as factual. Faith applied, released and activated...not one inkling of doubt should enter your mind...that is the best I can do with faith.Quote:
A fact is an objective reality that people can see. If it's only in their mind, it may be a reality for them, but it may or may not be a fact.
What do you expect? Wouldn't faith dictate "their" evidence as being real? How are you going to have faith and understand it any other way? Knowing God I know the Evidence as real, I can not see or even contemplate there being lack of evidence...so I will profess and tell you the Truth, there is evidence! If I tell you there is no evidence I would be lying.Quote:
What matters is when Christians try to insist that there is evidence for the existence of God.
I meant it in the sense that People create their own hell.Quote:
"I might think"----- of Hell as a man made Construct....Notice the first three words.
Hell makes sense, heaven doesn't. hell is reasonable heaven is not.
The Popular conception of hell does not come from the bible to begin with.
Hell is an Awful reality.
I'm with you. understanding it as - Man creates his own hell...is that OK?Quote:
"I don't like or understand the concept of hell and judgment, so I'll just pretend it is not spoken of in the NT."
I have trouble articulating myself, I haven't had much Practice, Pardon.
That's it for me. It's been nice chatting with you.
P.S.Honestly, You can't see the Bigger picture?Quote:
One might say; It was faith of the Patriarchs of old that brought about the Messiah .
Don't quit, Walter. Your comments are interesting. Don't let the give and take bother you. Use it as an opportunity to sharpen your arguments.Quote:
I have trouble articulating myself, I haven't had much Practice, Pardon.
That's it for me. It's been nice chatting with you.
My comments about hell and judgment were not really directed at you. There are some here who discount the teachings of the NT on those subjects.
Guilty! I live in the HERE and NOW and let the ancient guys have their own reality no matter the religion or region.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I worry about the after life when it gets here.
too late Tal
Yep. Too late then. Might want to listen to the guy who’s been there.
I'll just live my life the best I can thank you. I'm sure the old dudes way back when did the same.
In your own world, sure. In the world outside your mind, no. Words have meaning. You can change their meanings all you want, but that doesn't make the changes true.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
No, it has to present itself as BELIEVABLE. That's why it's called FAITH.Quote:
Faith, It has to present itself as factual.
You can do a lot more if you apply faith. Even move mountains.Quote:
Faith applied...that is the best I can do with faith.
Than why haven't you produced any evidence?Quote:
Knowing God I know the Evidence as real,
That's pre-judging - a factor in closing your mind.Quote:
I can not see or even contemplate there being lack of evidence.
Fine. Again - then produce that evidence.Quote:
..so I will profess and tell you the Truth, there is evidence!
No, that's not lying. It's just being confused.Quote:
If I tell you there is no evidence I would be lying.
See below re your articulation. Re-writing/re-thinking this would be helpful to understand your meaning.Quote:
I meant it in the sense that People create their own hell.
Hell makes sense, heaven doesn't. hell is reasonable heaven is not.
The Popular conception of hell does not come from the bible to begin with.
Hell is an Awful reality.
No, it's not OK - but it is true.Quote:
Man creates his own hell...is that OK?
I pardon you.Quote:
I have trouble articulating myself, I haven't had much Practice, Pardon.
And you. Some day in the future, you will think about the things discussed here. They're not easily dismissed from your mind - even if you say they are.Quote:
That's it for me. It's been nice chatting with you.
You are 100% correct. Jesus was not of this World. Did they not ask Jesus to provide proof? The proof/evidence was standing right smack in front of their face...and they sought proof; It was not proof they were seeking. If you want proof (in the world), become a scientist, or at least listen to them. Human DNA is a "code." Codes don't come from random events, it has to be created (not a made up word...Code = created) Many Scientists understand that the Universe Has order...indicating a creator...Now I digress.Quote:
If you have Faith it is a reality (fact).
In your own world, sure. In the world outside your mind, no.
You just don't get it. I understand what you are getting at. Maybe you are Operating in the "World," outside your mind (of faith)? Yes, If I was to exit the realm of God and enter the "world"...the "world" in which most everybody operates, I would be in a world that doesn't exist (death) and most likely deny the Existence of God, even though there are facts all around me.Quote:
In your own world, sure. In the world outside your mind
Have you ever wondered why the Disciples (along with everybody else) never understood what Jesus was talking about? We are Dealing with Real History and with Real Geography. Where not delving into the realm of fables, but where dealing with facts. When you turn to the Gospel Writers you will discover that they are not presenting us with Ideas to accept or even with a philosophy to embrace. But they are presenting us with Facts. With Events that took place in real time. "This is of Vital importance". And this distinguishes Christianity from many other Spheres of Philosophy and religions of the world. We are not saved believing a certain point of View. People might say; well that is just your point of view. Well that is our point of view, but we are not "saved" by believing a certain point of View. Our salvation is found in certain things that happened, that Christ was born, that Christ died for Sin, that Christ triumphed over the Grave That Christ ascended into Heaven, that Christ will return.
That's true. That might be why The Word of God is True, and we "must" live by every Word! The World Dictates words that you can't say and makes up words that you "have" to say.Quote:
Words have meaning. You can change their meanings all you want, but that doesn't make the changes true.
You are correct. It wasn't easy to dismiss from my (worldly) mind. Don't rely on your own understanding. The world doesn't know the Truth nor does it seek truth.Quote:
Some day in the future, you will think about the things discussed here. They're not easily dismissed from your mind - even if you say they are.
I have little experience in writing. Whenever I jump on this site I lose the entire day, sometimes two days. It takes me much too long to express myself. I hope you have a smidgen of the idea I'm trying to get across. I will hold to what I said earlier; If I told you there was No evidence for the existence of God I would be a Liar, like you...No offence. Get the faith and run with it. BELIEVE!!! Don't Fall into the subjection of the World
Walter - I'm not going to repeat all the times I have rebutted what you said so I'll make this short.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
The issue is EVIDENCE-FOR-THE-EXISTENCE-OF-GOD. Nothing in your screed addresses this issue. It's deja vu all over again. You seem to lack the capacity to have a dialogue on point.
You may rant and ramble about your faith but no one asked you about your faith. You are very defensive in that area. I wonder why?
Note I have never called you a liar, yet you call me one. What part of your faith does that come from?
My strong suggestion to you is to keep your responses very simple. Don't keep reaching for multi-syllabic words and sophisticated-sounding ideas -- and end up confusing your readers. E.g., evidence for the existence of God -- #1, #2, #3 etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Evidence of the existence of God .
Creatio ex nihilo (simple enough ?)
Yeah I know it is philosophical but evidence does not have to be scientific . When science can prove something comes from nothing then this evidence will be disproved . The universe had a beginning . The universe is the total of natural things . The beginning of the natural universe must have come from a supernatural presence.
Science tells us that the universe came from a big bang .That is irrelevant . No matter how many hypothesis they concoct ;it always comes back to a beginning... and that beginning has no scientific explanation . The only logical explanation is that there was a supernatural force at play . That supernatural force was God.
Tom, if you're going to play the logic card, then be logical. To claim that not knowing the cause of the universe means the only logical explanation is a supernatural force at play is about as non-logical a conclusion as is possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Claiming that force is God is just as bad. You have confused your making a statement with logic. Logic requires a step-by-step progression from premise to conclusion to be logic. Your statement fails in that regard.
To repeat what I wrote to Walter many times, faith is not the same as evidence.
I just take the biblical perspective and live a quiet lifeQuote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
That was not his statement. He referred to a SUPERNATURAL force which, by definition, would be God, or at the very least some force above the natural.Quote:
Claiming that force is God is just as bad
Not really. The point is that the only currently known possible explanation is God. Process of elimination. It should not be regarded as proof so much as presenting the only currently plausible cause.Quote:
To claim that not knowing the cause of the universe means the only logical explanation is a supernatural force at play is about as non-logical a conclusion as is possible.
“To really make an apple pie from scratch, you must begin by inventing the universe.” (Carl Sagan)
One day a group of scientists got together and decided that humanity had come a long way and no longer needed God. So they picked one scientist to go and tell Him that they were done with Him. The scientist walked up to God and said, “God, we've decided that we no longer need you. We’re to the point where we can clone people, manipulate atoms, build molecules, fly through space, and do many other miraculous things. So why don’t you just go away and mind your own business from now on?”
God listened very patiently and kindly to the man. After the scientist was done talking, God said, “Very well. How about this? Before I go, let’s say we have a human-making contest.” To which the scientist replied, “Okay, we can handle that!”“But,” God added, “we’re going to do this just like I did back in the old days with Adam.”
The scientist nodded, “Sure, no problem” and bent down and picked up a handful of dirt. God wagged a finger at him and said, “Uh, uh, uh. Put that down. You go find your own dirt.”
The world can not see any evidence of GOD, Because it chooses to be blind.
The Evidence you are looking for is in the Body of Christ (Church).
And you ask why Christians are always acting like they can Prove the existence of God?
You want to be the one to prove the existence of God...where you gonna go???
God is spirit, you cannot see spirits, doesn't mean they don't exist, blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe, SO................
I think Athos was taking a World view argument and trying to make sense of it. Why do Christians keep pretending that there is evidence when "we" (world) can clearly "see" that there is none to be found.
You want to be the one to prove the existence of God...where you gonna go???
There is difference between evidence and proof. The fact that the universe is exquisitely fine tuned for life does not prove the existence of God, but is certainly compelling evidence.
Yet for many, many scientist...not even looking for God...Quote:
The fact that the universe is exquisitely fine tuned for life does not prove the existence of God,
We are talking about two separate planes. The Carnal knows only of this world. The Spirit knows of this world and the world to come. We are told not to think as the world thinks.
Need not wonder any longer why Christians are always trying to Prove the existence of God? Was this the Basis (Disparage the Christians) of your Argument? If not, why would a Christian argue something contrary to his Belief/understanding?
I can See a carnal being Pose such a question- because their position is non-belief.
I apologize for Calling you A liar. I only meant it in the same way Jesus was Speaking to the non-believing "world."
John 8:55 You do not know Him, but I know Him. If I said I ...
I do know what you are Talking about. I believe you are in error, taking on the role (even for a split sec.) of this world view.
Faith can play no part in this kind of representation.
Good Day.
It's typically a bad idea to cut off a quote in mid-sentence. You left off, "...but is certainly compelling evidence." So by no means was I disparaging the Christian faith. I am wholeheartedly a follower of Christ. My point was to illustrate the difference between evidence and proof. Some people disparage evidence because it does not meet their standard of "proof". I think that's a mistake.Quote:
Need not wonder any longer why Christians are always trying to Prove the existence of God? Was this the Basis (Disparage the Christians) of your Argument? If not, why would a Christian argue something contrary to his Belief/understanding?
I took on the exact opposite of this world view. My point was essentially the same argument used by Paul in Romans 1. "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." It is the first of Paul's two arguments for God. The second, in chapter 2, is the fact that there is an innate sense of right/wrong placed by God in every person. Paul referred to it as "conscience".Quote:
I do know what you are Talking about. I believe you are in error, taking on the role (even for a split sec.) of this world view.
I think you misread my statement.
Evidence of pregnancy: I get sick to my stomach when thinking of making supper, I'm tired all the time, and I'm a lot crabbier.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Proof of pregnancy: an ultrasound.
Tom, I'm replying to this one because I got such a kick out of your attempt. It gave me a chuckle. Nice to know you're reaching out with stories. Very Biblical.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Add to that your fellow defenders chiming in with Walter's typical incomprehensibility (he didn't take WG's advice), and mistaking Jl for someone else with more of his now familiar rambling, and the argy bargy of Mr. Down Under - well, it's fun to see all you guys bumping into each other.
Yet for many, many scientists...not even looking for God...Quote:
The fact that the universe is exquisitely fine tuned for life does not prove the existence of God,
I responded too fast (sorry).
Thinking it was all too obvious what I was saying.
I was referring to those people (Scientists) Who turn to God on the Facts that they find...While not even believing or Searching for God.
@ Athos;
The argument that your using is a reductio ad absurdum, In other words, taking something that is true and reducing it to a level that is absolutely absurd, whereby you then use it as a mechanism to refute the reality of the premise. That’s what your doing. What your saying is, “To believe in the evidence just ridiculous.”
”
@Athos, No worries brother. I know that you will come to believe in the truth sooner or later.
You asked a Question; "Why do Christians think they can Prove the existence of God" (all the Tyyyme). How can Christian's Prove there is a God...Look at their Fruit. Hopefully, someday you will reach the end of Self.
You being a "Christian"- your argument makes no sense. Only a person who belongs to the world would ask such a question with such Confidence. Believing there is no Proof, thereby Not believing. "Believe" in the Spirit. Don't believe as the world believes.
It appears you have no Idea of what I am talking about, And that's Okay. It is God who calls those who he Chooses.
God Bless Brother.
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