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  • Feb 27, 2021, 06:21 AM
    jlisenbe
    WG. To answer what?

    Quote:

    you have a three hundred year head start on us, that is all that distinguishes us.
    As is oftentimes the case, you begin making a pretty good point, and then get over-hyped and go way too far. Just in the area of natural resources, you cannot compare the two countries.

    Quote:

    You forget we gave you a base when you needed one after getting your arses kicked being the big dog.
    If you are referring to the second world war, your memory is appallingly selective. You'd be speaking Japanese today if not for us.
  • Feb 27, 2021, 06:26 AM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    reality is big dog; you need us little dogs and just maybe we keep you centred, and not too up yourselves with this big dog nonsense, you have a three hundred year head start on us, that is all that distinguishes us. You forget we gave you a base when you needed one after getting your arses kicked being the big dog. just like you we know loss

    Common interest often forms coalitions. A pack if you will, in which every member benefits for survival and within that pack there is always a dominant force. That's not a bad thing but you seem sensitive to the analogy. Is that why you always bark at the big dog? Why are you surprised that the big dog would bark back?
  • Feb 27, 2021, 06:49 AM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    you have a three hundred year head start on us, that is all that distinguishes us.
    I'll just add that it is an interesting point to consider. Since 1950, our population has grown by more than 150 million. Australia's has grown by 17 million. What accounts for the difference? Seriously.
  • Feb 27, 2021, 11:16 AM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    So strong and do-able that you cannot even put them in text form? Strange.
    I had said:
    1. Look at the person inside, not their outside.
    2. Seize opportunities to show respect, empathy, love, plus find ways to lift up, to reach out to another.

    One example: AOC, a NY Representative and not a Texas resident, went down to Texas and followed the above to the letter.
    What NOT to do: Ted Cruz, a Texas Senator, ran to warmer climes with his tail between his legs and no empathy for and reaching out at all to his own constituents.
  • Feb 27, 2021, 01:59 PM
    jlisenbe
    Yes, you've said that, and we all agree with it. The question was what role the government should play in this. In other words, would you propose any new legal initiatives?

    I would agree with you that TC made a fool of himself. AOC is purely a political creature.
  • Feb 27, 2021, 02:19 PM
    tomder55
    AOC is going after the Schmuckster . Her play in Texas was similar to her play on the border in the white dress. It's the pols who make sure the cameras are rolling when they serve a holiday dinner at a shelter on a holiday . Gestures .
  • Feb 27, 2021, 02:26 PM
    jlisenbe
    AOC basically say, "I'll support a ridiculous, impossible Green New Deal which is DOA, but then go to Texas (at taxpayer expense) to make a show of supporting people in order to appear reasonable and caring.
  • Feb 27, 2021, 03:23 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    WG. To answer what?

    As is oftentimes the case, you begin making a pretty good point, and then get over-hyped and go way too far. Just in the area of natural resources, you cannot compare the two countries.

    I don't know that that is necessarily correct, we have abundant reserves of coal, uranium, bauxite, iron, rare earths, vast agricultural industry, but you do have more water and oil

    Quote:

    If you are referring to the second world war, your memory is appallingly selective. You'd be speaking Japanese today if not for us.
    Australia was a bridge too far for the Japanese. We stopped them in New Guinea. You stopped them on Bougainville. The Japanese sought to isolate Australia, not conquer it, still they did a great deal with what today would be considered small forces. No interest in us really, we didn't possess oil fields. It is your memory, like most of your countrymen, that is appallingly selective. I put that down to your education system
  • Feb 27, 2021, 03:31 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    The question was what role the government should play in this. In other words, would you propose any new legal initiatives?

    I would agree with you that TC made a fool of himself. AOC is purely a political creature.
    The government DID play a role. Its representatives were AOC et al. and Ted Cruz.

    The government can make laws and initiate procedures that:
    1. Look at the person inside, not their outside.
    2. Seize opportunities to show respect, empathy, love, plus find ways to lift up, to reach out to another.

    E.g., retrain police departments, improve teacher education, and put together better, more caring guidelines for nursing homes.
  • Feb 27, 2021, 03:40 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    The government can make laws and initiate procedures that:
    1. Look at the person inside, not their outside.
    2. Seize opportunities to show respect, empathy, love, plus find ways to lift up, to reach out to another.
    But that's what I'm asking you. What laws are you proposing? How will they be enforced? What will be the penalties for non-obedience?

    Quote:

    E.g., retrain police departments, improve teacher education, and put together better, more caring guidelines for nursing homes.
    You are putting out generalities. That's fine, but I'm trying to get you to be specific. What, for instance, should be changed in teacher education, and how do you know what is presently being taught in those programs?
  • Feb 27, 2021, 03:42 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    I'll just add that it is an interesting point to consider. Since 1950, our population has grown by more than 150 million. Australia's has grown by 17 million. What accounts for the difference? Seriously.

    We started from a smaller base around 10 million, however Aussie population growth rates exceed those of the US. US population growth is around 0.6% Australian is around 1.0%. long term trend is we are both declining
  • Feb 27, 2021, 04:15 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    But that's what I'm asking you. What laws are you proposing? How will they be enforced? What will be the penalties for non-obedience?

    Will this manuscript be graded? Will I attain a degree? Will it be published?
    Quote:

    You are putting out generalities. That's fine, but I'm trying to get you to be specific.
    Why? So you can shoot me down like you are doing already? Why not make this a discussion instead of hanging me by my thumbs? Certainly you have specifics now that I have laid out the generalities:

    1. retrain police departments
    2. improve teacher education
    3. put together better, more caring guidelines for nursing homes.

    Please don't be like Dale Ballard, Meemaw's boyfriend on "Young Sheldon"!
  • Feb 27, 2021, 04:57 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    Why? So you can shoot me down like you are doing already? Why not make this a discussion instead of hanging me by my thumbs? Certainly you have specifics now that I have laid out the generalities:

    1. retrain police departments
    2. improve teacher education
    3. put together better, more caring guidelines for nursing homes.

    Please don't be like Dale Ballard, Meemaw's boyfriend on "Young Sheldon"!
    Never mind.
  • Feb 27, 2021, 05:07 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Never mind.

    Yup, that's what I figured!

    P.S. Here's another one:
    4. prison reform
  • Feb 28, 2021, 06:16 AM
    jlisenbe
    There's no point in it. It'll just turn out the same way it always does. "Certainly you have specifics now that I have laid out the generalities." That pretty much says it all. "I don't know, so maybe you can come in and supply the specifics for me." Why not simply say you haven't really thought it through and don't know what the specifics would be? At least that would be an straight-forward reply. And what will you say about prison reform? "All the guards and prisoners should be nice to each other?"

    As they say, the devil is in the details.
  • Feb 28, 2021, 10:13 AM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    As they say, the devil is in the details.
    So you don't want to discuss this? Here's my suggestion for police:

    1. retrain police departments - to think beyond using force and guns to solve a problem. Add well-trained and experienced mental health workers who would accompany police on calls, especially those calls about a teen walking in the plowed street instead of on the snow-covered sidewalk or a woman undressing in an alley or a white woman, walking her illegally unleashed dog, complaining about a bird-watching Black man who asked her to leash her dog.
  • Feb 28, 2021, 12:07 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    1. retrain police departments - to think beyond using force and guns to solve a problem. Add well-trained and experienced mental health workers who would accompany police on calls, especially those calls about a teen walking in the plowed street instead of on the snow-covered sidewalk or a woman undressing in an alley or a white woman, walking her illegally unleashed dog, complaining about a bird-watching Black man who asked her to leash her dog.
    How about the six thousand calls a year where a black person has been shot and killed by another black person? Why is it you never mention those? Do you just not care at all?

    I think that when you have gotten into a police car and gone on some of these calls yourself, then you'll be able to speak more realistically. And it evidently completely escaped your notice that the bird watching person was not arrested. but the dog walker was charged with a crime. So how better would you have handled that? All of it happened after the man said to her, “Look, if you’re going to do what you want, I’m going to do what I want, but you’re not going to like it.” Sure could sound like a threat, couldn't it? It ended up being a tempest in a teapot.

    You missed this about the teen walking in the street.

    "Plano police responded to a welfare call shortly before 11 p.m. on Feb. 16. A caller reported that a Black man wearing a short-sleeve shirt and shorts was walking down Hedgcoxe Road and was stumbling. Officers found the man, later identified as Rodney Reese, who was wearing a short-sleeve shirt and long pants. Temperatures were in the teens, and there was snow and ice on the road.

    Officers were concerned for the man’s welfare and the possibility that could have been in a mental crisis, delusional or impaired, according to a post on the Plano Police Department Facebook page.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...et/ar-BB1dUoO1

    See what I mean about those pesky details???

    What would you think about a return to two-parent families where there is a dad present who more effectively controls the boys of the household? You NEVER mention that, but it's the only real solution.
  • Feb 28, 2021, 12:16 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    You NEVER mention that, but it's the only real solution.
    How? With whippings? I raised two very well-behaved sons who became a blessing to society and never whipped or spanked either of them.
    Quote:

    How about the six thousand calls a year where a black person has been shot and killed by another black person? Why is it you never mention those? Do you just not care at all?
    You had ducked out of the discussion, so I figured, why bother. And yes, I have discussion input about that.
  • Feb 28, 2021, 12:27 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    How? With whippings? I raised two very well-behaved sons who became a blessing to society and never whipped or spanked either of them.
    Which household was that in, the "modest income" one, or the six figure income one? You have claimed both. And I didn't mention spankings. I mentioned dads.

    It never changes with you. There can be no discussion when you are so afraid to engage with serious questions. "I have discussion input about that." Fine. Put it down. But I don't think you will.
  • Feb 28, 2021, 12:39 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Which household was that in, the "modest income" one, or the six figure income one? You have claimed both. And I didn't mention spankings. I mentioned dads.

    The larger income, two inheritances, has come about since my mother's death on January 15, 2018, and our 42 y/o son's death on May 4, 2018. From 1967 to 2018, our income was modest.

    Whippings have been mentioned earlier in this thread as a means to make children obey. What do dads have to do with making children behave?
    Quote:

    It never changes with you. There can be no discussion when you are so afraid to engage with serious questions. "I have discussion input about that." Fine. Put it down. But I don't think you will.
    I did and hoped you would add to the discussion in a positive way.

    P.S. Instead of taking the boy home, the Plano police put that teen in jail. (Walking on an icy street beats slogging through a foot of heavy snow on the sidewalk.) The last sentence says it all ("race was the issue") --
    https://www.star-telegram.com/news/l...249422695.html
  • Feb 28, 2021, 12:40 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    Fine. Put it down. But I don't think you will.
    And I was right.

    Sorry to hear of your son. 42 is far too young.
  • Feb 28, 2021, 01:02 PM
    Wondergirl
    Please reread my post. I added a link to it about the teen in Plano (be sure to read it). Btw, your link doesn't work.
  • Feb 28, 2021, 01:09 PM
    Wondergirl
    The loving thing police could have done with the Plano teen:

    "Hey, guy, it's cold out here. Where's your jacket?"

    "I don't have far to go, so I didn't bother. And yup, I'm freezing!"

    "How far away is home?"

    "Not too far."

    "I've got a blanket in my squad car. How 'bout if I drive you home and you can warm up in the blanket meanwhile."

    "Don't you have police stuff to do?"

    "You're my 'police stuff' right now. Let's get you home asap!"
  • Feb 28, 2021, 01:10 PM
    jlisenbe
    My link works now.

    Do you guys ever, ever, ever read your own links? Yes, the teen said he thought it was race, but if you had bothered to go down further, you would have seen this from police body cams. You can't just reflexively blame the police on every occasion. READ YOUR OWN LINKS THOROUGHLY!!

    Quote:

    Reese lives with his mother and he was just a few blocks away from home.
    The teen repeatedly told Plano police that he was fine, but officers continued to follow him for a few minutes, according to video of the incident.
    “Dude, stop we are trying to help you,” Plano police said in the body camera video released on the department’s Facebook over the weekend.
    “I’m trying to get home,” Reese said.
    “All right, but you’re walking in the middle of the road,” an officer said.


    “I understand that. My bad,” Reese said.
    Reese later told KDFW-TV he was walking in the middle of the road because the sidewalk was covered in ice and snow.
    “Are you cold?” an officer asked.
    “No. I’m not,” the teen answered.
    “Do you want us to give you a ride?” a police officer asked.


    “No. I do this every night,” Reese said.
    In the video, the teen kept walking away from Plano police until an officer said he was being detained.
    “Let me go,” Reese said as he was being handcuffed.
    Plano police said the teen resisted their efforts to handcuff him.
    The arresting officer noted in his arrest report that although the teen committed the Class B misdemeanor offense of interference with public duties by resisting officers’ efforts to detain and handcuff him, the officers decided to seek to charge him only with pedestrian in the roadway, a Class C misdemeanor.
    When the police stop you, you don't just keep on walking. That was insanely stupid.
  • Feb 28, 2021, 01:12 PM
    Wondergirl
    Now, read MY link in its entirety. The conclusion of this case.

    “There’s a lot information that we know about this case that we didn’t know at the time,” Drain told the television station. “Those officers didn’t know his age. They didn’t know he was 18. They didn’t know he worked at Walmart. They didn’t know where he lived.”

    AND THEY DIDN'T ASK HIM!!!!

    “No. I do this every night,” Reese said.
    In the video, the teen kept walking away from Plano police until an officer said he was being detained.
    “Let me go,” Reese said as he was being handcuffed.
    Plano police said the teen resisted their efforts to handcuff him.

    Wonder why he resisted....
  • Feb 28, 2021, 01:20 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    Now, read MY link in its entirety. The conclusion of this case.
    Your link was what I read. That you didn't read even close to all of it was obvious from this, "The last sentence says it all ("race was the issue") --" LOL. You thought his comment was the "last sentence".

    There is a real simple concept here you are missing. When the cops tell you to do something, barring the ultra-unreasonable, you do it. It's not complicated. You just knee-jerk are anti-cops. Typical liberal dem.
  • Feb 28, 2021, 01:30 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    “There’s a lot information that we know about this case that we didn’t know at the time,” Drain told the television station. “Those officers didn’t know his age. They didn’t know he was 18. They didn’t know he worked at Walmart. They didn’t know where he lived.”

    AND THEY DIDN'T ASK HIM!!!!

    “No. I do this every night,” Reese said.
    In the video, the teen kept walking away from Plano police until an officer said he was being detained.
    “Let me go,” Reese said as he was being handcuffed.
    Plano police said the teen resisted their efforts to handcuff him.
    So if you are 18, work at WM, and live nearby, then it's perfectly alright for you to walk in middle of the road at night, refuse to stop, resist arrest, and generally act like an insane idiot? Really?
  • Feb 28, 2021, 01:47 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    So if you are 18, work at WM, and live nearby, then it's perfectly all right for you to walk in middle of the road at night, refuse to stop, resist arrest, and generally act like an insane idiot? Really?
    Why was he stopped? The police must have seen the snow-packed sidewalks and that the easier walking could be done on the street. Why didn't the police let him go when he said he does that every night? Or engage him in a fruitful conversation instead of acting like punitive police?

    "We're worried about you. It's darn cold out here and we don't think you are dressed warmly enough."
  • Feb 28, 2021, 03:05 PM
    paraclete
    some people are just loners and there is always the question are the police trustworthy or do they have a hidden motive
  • Feb 28, 2021, 03:15 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    Why was he stopped?
    According to the article you linked, "Plano police responded to a welfare call shortly before 11 p.m. on Feb. 16. A caller reported that a Black man wearing a short-sleeve shirt and shorts was walking down Hedgcoxe Road and was stumbling."

    Quote:

    Why didn't the police let him go when he said he does that every night?
    Why didn't the cops just let a teenager walk down the middle of the street at night? Well...

    Quote:

    "I've got a blanket in my squad car. How 'bout if I drive you home and you can warm up in the blanket meanwhile."

    "Don't you have police stuff to do?"

    "You're my 'police stuff' right now. Let's get you home asap!"
    They offered him a ride home. He refused it. Did you ever bother to read your own article???
  • Feb 28, 2021, 03:40 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Did you ever bother to read your own article???
    I just love love love playing dumb and making you actually read my link. ;-D
  • Mar 1, 2021, 09:10 AM
    talaniman
    They could have just followed him home instead of arresting him and making him spend the night in jail if they were so concerned. Or taken him to a hospital instead of jail, where they rendered no medical treatment. They later dropped charges that didn't need to be filed in the first place. Who was served and protected in this case?
  • Mar 1, 2021, 09:37 AM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    I just love love love playing dumb and making you actually read my link
    I guess it's a good thing that at least one of us read it.
  • Mar 2, 2021, 04:47 AM
    talaniman
    That's like killing a guy for jaywalking, or 7 cops spraying and handcuffing a 9 year old. At what point do we call out bad police decisions and actions?
  • Mar 3, 2021, 07:15 PM
    paraclete
    when you start firing their arses
  • Mar 4, 2021, 01:50 PM
    Athos
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    when you start firing their arses

    They have "qualified immunity" which is a get out of jail free card. The Dems are trying to modify that. Also, they always say "I was in fear for my life", which the juries usually buy. Even when the video shows the cop shooting a fleeing suspect in the back.
  • Mar 4, 2021, 02:21 PM
    paraclete
    It all comes down to gun culture, the perps can be assumed to have a gun, the cops have guns
  • Mar 5, 2021, 10:43 AM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    They have "qualified immunity" which is a get out of jail free card. The Dems are trying to modify that. Also, they always say "I was in fear for my life", which the juries usually buy. Even when the video shows the cop shooting a fleeing suspect in the back.

    Let's not forget those AG's who refuse to even bring charges. So much for the law and order conservatives who want no reforms and holler about defunding by dems as a bad thing to appease the fringer screamers they depend on.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    It all comes down to gun culture, the perps can be assumed to have a gun, the cops have guns

    It's not the gun culture but the loony culture.
  • Mar 5, 2021, 01:58 PM
    paraclete
    yes looney gun culture
  • Mar 10, 2021, 05:53 AM
    jlisenbe
    Here is an example of our mentally alert pres at work. He can't remember the name of the Sec. of Defense, and he refers to the Department of Defense as "that outfit".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPJ6AAoBUTA

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