Yes It is so here too, but the real blight has been cruise ships
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Yes It is so here too, but the real blight has been cruise ships
We can keep people at home and likely contain the virus, but we can't stay at home forever, so the big question is going to be this. What happens when people go back to work? That has to happen, and likely very soon, so what happens when that happens?
Here are the official Coronavirus guidelines.
1. Basically, you cannot leave the house for any reason unless of course you have a really good reason.
2. Masks are useless, but maybe you have to wear one since it could possibly save you. It's useless, but maybe it is mandatory as well.
3. Stores are closed except the ones that are still open.
4. You should not go to hospitals unless you have to go there. Same thing applies to doctor visits. You should only go there in case of emergency, provided that you are not too sick.
5. This virus is deadly but still not too scary, except that sometimes it actually leads to a global disaster.
6. Gloves won't help, but they can still be very helpful in some cases.
7. Everyone needs to stay HOME, but it's important to GO OUT.
8. There is no shortage of groceries in the supermarket except that there are many things missing when you go there in the evening, but not in the morning, or at least sometimes.
9. The virus has no effect on children except for those it does affect.
10. You will have many symptoms when you are sick, but you can also get sick without symptoms, have symptoms without being sick, or be contagious without having symptoms. It's all very simple.
11. In order not to get sick, you have to eat well and exercise, but eat whatever you have on hand and it's better not to go out, well, but no…
12. It's better to get some fresh air, but you get looked at very strangely when you get some fresh air, and most importantly, don't go to parks or walk. But also don’t sit down, except that you can do that now if you are old, but not for too long or if you are pregnant (but not too old).
13. You can't go to retirement homes, but you have to take care of the elderly and bring food and medication.
14. You can get restaurant food delivered to the house, which may have been prepared by people who didn't wear masks or gloves which, of course, are not effective anyway other than when they are effective. But you have to have your groceries decontaminated outside for 3 hours. Pizza too?
15. Every disturbing article or disturbing interview starts with "I don't want to trigger panic, but…"
16. You can't see your older mother or grandmother, but you can take a taxi and meet an older taxi driver.
17. You can walk around with a friend, but you can't walk around with your family unless, of course, that they don't live under the same roof in which case it is allowable.
18. You are safe if you maintain the appropriate social distance, but you can’t go out with friends or strangers at the safe social distance.
19. The virus remains active on different surfaces for two hours, no, four, no, six, no, we didn't say hours, maybe days? But it takes a damp environment other than in cases where that is not the case.
20. We count the number of deaths but we don't know how many people are infected as we have only tested so far those who were "almost dead" to find out if that's what they will die of.
21. We have no treatment, except that there may be one that apparently is not dangerous unless you take too much (which is, of course, the case with all medications).
22. We should stay locked up until the virus disappears, but it will only disappear if we achieve collective immunity, so when it circulates… but we must no longer be locked up for that?
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...revention.html
I didn't see your version.
Seems that testing, and workplace safety equipment will dictate the new normal. TBA.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
seems like a great deal of indecision, which is not the case here. The message is stay home, avoid contact with others, and it seems to be working
Of couse there is more confusion and indecision when a growing crisis is sweeping through large populations like we have, but we also have the areas in less populated states that are not as hard hit, but they are starting to show signs that should be heeded and dealt with.
It would seem after your wildfire experience you would be very cautious for we know it doesn't take much to get this thing started, and ramped up quickly in those less populated places.
There have been no reported cases in my region for two weeks and much of the state seems to be free of it, however, there are pockets in Sydney but infections are lessening. Still, we still have the accompanying pandemic of stupidity to deal with. indications the lockdown will remain for another monthQuote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Why stop what's working because people are bored, and broke?
There are other reasons to stop, like the low level of infections and the long unemployment queues.
That's the same thing the dufus said today. I would think about doing anything he is pushing. Guess we wait and see how this works. There is the inherent possibility this virus can comeback like most viruses do. Everybody wants this over with, especially those growing number of unemployed losing everything they worked for, or those with elders in places we can't visit but at least alive for the moment. Think about the huge populations yet to have this virus hit, like Africa and Asia with less than stellar health resources.
Or in Australia's case, the next asymptomatic returning cruise ship or vacationer, or just a visitor from some innocuous place on business. You don't know what the catalyst is, or will be. I think we all need to stay on this one, for the foreseeable future any way.
there won't be any more returning cruise ships, the last plague ship is scheduled to leave Sunday all others have been ordered out of our waters'. Anyone returning is placed in mandatory quarantineQuote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
I have no concern for other places at the moment, just the reality that I can do nothing for them, and there are governments with that responsibility and even the irresponsible WHO for that purpose. Our response has been nothing short of panic when the number of cases have been fewer than elsewhere and the death rate low, but the doom and gloom merchants have had a field day
I cannot say that the only danger of infection is the cruise ships passengers, or whether there are other people infected who are a symptomatic, have a stronger immune system so unknowingly infected, and without testing NO ONE can know either. While reported cases can be counted, it's no telling what is the count for those that have not reported for whatever reason. It's those unknown variables that can bite you.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
The Who declared this virus a pandemic in early March but in January they had issued a statement of concern.Quote:
I have no concern for other places at the moment, just the reality that I can do nothing for them, and there are governments with that responsibility and even the irresponsible WHO for that purpose. Our response has been nothing short of panic when the number of cases have been fewer than elsewhere and the death rate low, but the doom and gloom merchants have had a field day
https://time.com/5791661/who-coronav...c-declaration/
Many world governments were on notice to the events in China, so let's not scapegoat them, though like everywhere, we can see the slow response by all the normal human reactions to a virus that outspread everything we have ever seen.Quote:
During multiple prior press briefings, WHO officials maintained that COVID-19 had “pandemic potential,” but stopped short of declaring it one. The agency did, in January, call it apublic health emergency of international concern, a slightly different label that refers to an “extraordinary event” that “constitute[s] a public health risk to other States through the international spread of disease.”
For all the superiority bluster it's safe to say we were all caught with our pants down and scramble to catch up. Even the most sophisticated and advanced medical minds in the world are searching for answers. Many places like yours don't see the point, since you have not been so effected as other places, but to dismiss it would not be wise. As I have said erring on the side of safety and caution should be everybody's goal as more is learned.
Trust me Clete, enough time later to beetch, blame, and retaliate after it's a lot more certain that the crisis is indeed over and not just in remission.
Cruise ships have for a long time represented a source of infection of various viruses but this time a large number of CV infections and indeed deaths here have originated in cruise ships. Some of these lines will not survive the actions that will be brought against themQuote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-...ruise/12158924
the WHO are culpableQuote:
The Who declared this virus a pandemic in early March but in January they had issued a statement of concern.
https://time.com/5791661/who-coronav...c-declaration/
Our politicians erred on the side of caution and we have fewer infections and even fewer deaths, certain others did not and the results are catastrophic, but China bears blame and responsibility. What is happening in the US where lockdowns are being protested is shear lunacyQuote:
Many world governments were on notice to the events in China, so let's not scapegoat them, though like everywhere, we can see the slow response by all the normal human reactions to a virus that outspread everything we have ever seen.
For all the superiority bluster it's safe to say we were all caught with our pants down and scramble to catch up. Even the most sophisticated and advanced medical minds in the world are searching for answers. Many places like yours don't see the point, since you have not been so effected as other places, but to dismiss it would not be wise. As I have said erring on the side of safety and caution should be everybody's goal as more is learned.
Trust me Clete, enough time later to beetch, blame, and retaliate after it's a lot more certain that the crisis is indeed over and not just in remission.
1. Yes cruise ships are a veritable corona19 bredding ground, as are nursing homes, and prisons but that's the point. Any large gathering of humans in defined spaces is the same risk, and we don't know who is an infector and who is more susceptible. It could be a while before you find out. For sure letting your guard down is not a wise course at this time.
2. Should the focus be on WHO, or dealing with what you got? Seems what you got will keep you busy enough.
3. Agreed! I understand the fear though of those unemployed losing all they have worked for and unable to maintain it. Being powerless will make you crazy!
What you are seeing is lack of trust in government, you are learning the hard lesson that absolute freedom can mean absolute destruction, people left to their own devices are dangerous, people left without direction become mobs. Trump masquerades as a strong leader but he is actually weak and indecisive there should have been a cohesive national plan to deal with CV but the pilate approach leaving it to individual governors was a recipe for disaster, you are either a nation or a collection of individual states
There has always been a huge lack of trust in government here Clete, but we get to blow off some steam every two years, and plenty of rallies, protests, and marching in between.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
When things don't work he can blame the governors, but the reality is he doesn't know what to do. Never did!Quote:
you are learning the hard lesson that absolute freedom can mean absolute destruction, people left to their own devices are dangerous, people left without direction become mobs. Trump masquerades as a strong leader but he is actually weak and indecisive there should have been a cohesive national plan to deal with CV but the pilate approach leaving it to individual governors was a recipe for disaster,
Quote:
you are either a nation or a collection of individual states
Our problem is too much trust in government. "In Government we trust."
Trust but verify!
No, it is actually misplaced trust, in Trump you trustQuote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Not really. Our over reliance on government was going on long before Trump came along. That's why we have a 25 trillion dollar national debt.
I think there is a different reason you have a 25 trillion debt, you cut down all the money trees
5 trillion dollars a year in a 26 trillion dollar a year economy? We do have options.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
https://www.thebalance.com/will-the-...id-off-3970473
And for background
https://www.thebalance.com/deficit-v...conomy-3305779
We need overall fiscal responsibility on a national level because states on their own can barely provide what they need for themselves on a yearly basis. Some just have more resources and thus more options than others.
We're not bringing in 5 tril a year in revenue. That's the whole problem. We also don't have a 26 trillion dollar economy. Fairly close, but not that large.Quote:
5 trillion dollars a year in a 26 trillion dollar a year economy? We do have options.
Here's a solution. Pass a constitutional amendment requiring Congress to assess a flat income tax on all Americans equal to whatever they want to spend. There would be no deductions. If you live in America, then you get to support America. If Congress wants to spend 4 trillion, then they must, by law, raise 4 trillion. Now if they did that, you would see spending go down and borrowing stop. Problem solved.
Best economy iin the world dude bar none, and bringing in an extra 5 trill is extremely possible if repubs would stop juicing that economy by suppressing the engine to match those 3rd world nations so big biz can have an edge on cheap labor.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Any plan takes leadership and competence to execute and we just don't have that, but we get a chance to change that in a few months.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
You do have options it is called fiscal responsibility, something your governments are incapable of, because the government is run by politicians who cannot see beyond the end of their term
Yes you do and it starts with lower spending and more taxation, but it cannot be done because the rich hollar like stuck pigs. All these wonderful programs are programs you cannot afford because there isn't enough to pay for them. Other nations can do it, but you cannotQuote:
We need overall fiscal responsibility on a national level because states on their own can barely provide what they need for themselves on a yearly basis. Some just have more resources and thus more options than others.
Big Biz has found a way around our Constitution. We the people elect our government, and big biz pays them. Capitalist run this country and you can see our real issues of infrastructure, poverty, education, healthcare, and inequality go unaddressed. You cannot have moral fiscal responsibility with trickle down economics. I mean what kind of society do we have when a teacher is worth far less than a lawyer?
It's hard to adjust for GREED!
Those areas eat up hundreds of billions of dollars a year. I wouldn't call that going "unaddressed".Quote:
our real issues of infrastructure, poverty, education, healthcare, and inequality go unaddressed.
You mean like good ole Barack "I'm Fiscally Responsible" Obama did?Quote:
Any plan takes leadership and competence to execute
No, more like much, much older Donald "my rich buddies and I don't give a hoot about you losers" Trump does.Quote:
You mean like good ole Barack "I'm Fiscally Responsible" Obama did?
Isn't it more like Trump opposes abortion and you resent that? Besides, Trump did more for the poor with an electric economy than Obama ever did.
What would him being "much, much older" have to do with anything? Why would you even mention that? Are you prejudiced against the aged?Quote:
much older
Like what exactly has the dufus done for the poor? The unemployment was already low, and he lowered it another point so what has he really done for poor people? Oh wait, if you load the rich guys with loot then the chump change trickle down to the poorest! Except in reality the middle class scarfs that up and screw the poor! let 'em eat cheese and salty peas, and listen to sermons for a bag of groceries.
Obama made jobs and gave the poor doctors. The dufus and repubs want to take that away.
Electric economy. Yeah, right. Bwahahahaha. And he screwed that up real fast!Quote:
Isn't it more like Trump opposes abortion and you resent that? Besides, Trump did more for the poor with an electric economy than Obama ever did.
His decline in his old age is amazing! Look at videos from 30-40 years ago -- he was articulate, personable, even charming, said intelligent things in complete sentences without meaningless superlatives thrown in. I know you refuse to Google, so let me know if you want me to post a link or two.Quote:
What would him being "much, much older" have to do with anything? Why would you even mention that? Are you prejudiced against the aged?
Nope, I'm not prejudiced against the aged.
What a silly statement. It's like blaming the banking crisis for the economic mess Obama had in his first year. No one could have anticipated this virus. You are being completely prejudiced by your hatred of all things Trump.Quote:
Electric economy. Yeah, right. Bwahahahaha. And he screwed that up real fast!
His decline in his old age is amazing! Look at videos from 30-40 years ago -- he was articulate, personable, even charming, said intelligent things in complete sentences without meaningless superlatives thrown in. I know you refuse to Google, so let me know if you want me to post a link or two.
Then why the need to post "much, much older"? Sure sounded prejudiced to me.Quote:
Nope, I'm not prejudiced against the aged.
Only a member of the privileged middle class would make a statement like that. What has he done for the poor? How about having an economy that had provided jobs for anyone who wanted one? That's especially important for those of us who realize that having a job, or two or three, is the ONLY way out of poverty. Obama "made" jobs? Obama knew nothing about making jobs. He never owned or operated a business. All he knew was to borrow, borrow, borrow, and then borrow some more.Quote:
Like what exactly has the dufus done for the poor? The unemployment was already low, and he lowered it another point so what has he really done for poor people? Oh wait, if you load the rich guys with loot then the chump change trickle down to the poorest! Except in reality the middle class scarfs that up and screw the poor! let 'em eat cheese and salty peas, and listen to sermons for a bag of groceries.
Obama made jobs and gave the poor doctors. The dufus and repubs want to take that away.
Are you talking about the rich guys who pay more than 85% of income taxes???
Always the putdown...Quote:
What a silly statement.
Nope. He could have stopped avoiding the issue early on, stopped lying about the virus, the masks, the PPEs, the numbers of sick and dead American citizens, but NO, his enormous ego wouldn't allow that.Quote:
No one could have anticipated this virus. You are being completely prejudiced by your hatred of all things Trump.
Only when you post something...silly.Quote:
Always the putdown...
Now that's a somewhat fair statement. However, he did make the enormously important move of limiting travel with China, a move which your beloved dems harshly criticized him for. Correct?Quote:
Nope. He could have stopped avoiding the issue early on, stopped lying about the virus, the masks, the PPEs, the numbers of sick and dead American citizens, but NO, his enormous ego wouldn't allow that.
Trump was in favor of abortion before he opposed it. He began to oppose it when he discovered a large base out in mid-America that opposed it and would vote for him. He once made a crucial error when he suggested women having abortions should be punished. This was never the anti-abortion stance and he backtracked on that mistake the very next day.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
From an interview with Tim Russert before Trump ran for president.
“I’m very pro-choice,” Trump says. “I hate the concept of abortion. I hate it. I hate everything it stands for. I cringe when I listen to people debating the subject. But you still — I just believe in choice.”
Russert clarifies his original point: Would you ban partial-birth abortion? “No,” Trump replies.
Yes, people can change their mind on principle. But the only principle Trump has, or ever had, is self-aggrandizement. A malignant narcissist lacks empathy.
Um, you failed math? (I can do putdowns too -- learned how from you!)Quote:
Then why the need to post "much, much older"? Sure sounded prejudiced to me.
How old was he 30-40 years ago? (Hint: he was born in 1946.) Don't forget to send him a card when he turns 74 on June 14, 2020. He's much, much older than he was 30-40 years ago. I am too. OMG! YOU ARE TOO!!!
Kind of like Obama was opposed to gay marriage before he supported it? I'm only interested in what he is now.Quote:
Trump was in favor of abortion before he opposed it.
Fraid not. Your putdown makes no sense.Quote:
Um, you failed math? (I can do putdowns too -- learned how from you!)
And he'll be even older tomorrow. So?Quote:
How old was he 30-40 years ago? (Hint: he was born in 1946.) Don't forget to send him a card when he turns 74 on June 14, 2020. He's much, much older than he was 30-40 years ago. I am too. OMG! YOU ARE TOO!!!
You have trouble with subtraction?Quote:
'Fraid not. Your putdown makes no sense.
You questioned my speaking of Trump's being "much, much older."Quote:
And he'll be even older tomorrow. So?
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