From YOUR link,
And his nice pension.Quote:
There was anger that he had been allowed to quit instead of being fired — his contract was due to end in May and he will now receive a year's paid leave.
Americans have a right to protest.
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From YOUR link,
And his nice pension.Quote:
There was anger that he had been allowed to quit instead of being fired — his contract was due to end in May and he will now receive a year's paid leave.
Americans have a right to protest.
No he was offered an honerable solution and he took it, it is the way of beauracracy, you work for a pension and you are entitled to take it. It is a reward for past service and he must have done something right and if he was given a golden parachute just remember there is nowhere he is going to get a job at the same level again. The way I see it his contact probably had an early termination clause and you are reading the press beatup which is trying to inflame the locals and get some more revenue out of the result. Gutter press they call it or the polite name is tabloid. Look if his department was heavy handed on one segment of the population remember that they were providing opportunity or do you think traffic tickets are invented, or drug offences don't happen except in the mind of the police
His past service was as police chief of a department that was DISBANDED, and maybe given the FACTS of his service HISTORY, he should NOT be rewarded and it would be an act of justice he NEVER gets a job of this level ever again.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Getting fired would have been a just reward, and you cannot assume what his contract says.Quote:
The way I see it his contact probably had an early termination clause and you are reading the press beatup which is trying to inflame the locals and get some more revenue out of the result.
Does that include your own presses regurgitated account of events?Quote:
Gutter press they call it or the polite name is tabloid.
No wonder your rant is more of a ramble, you have NO facts just assumption based on your own bias, but I respect your right to your opinion, but the facts are pointing elsewhere. Yes the traffic tickets are invented and inflated beyond reasonable limits. What you don't know, is its worse in surrounding counties, and prevalent nationwide.Quote:
Look if his department was heavy handed on one segment of the population remember that they were providing opportunity or do you think traffic tickets are invented, or drug offences don't happen except in the mind of the police
Keep defending institutional wrongdoing, and the REAL criminals that do it. Supporting such corruption is the problem that you have made yourself part of... on the wrong side.
Tal it sounds like you got a bad case of corruption over there, we used to have police forces like that here but we never made the mistake of having local law enforcement. What we got is a Commission against Corruption and it has taken down many a good ole boy including state politicians who thought they were above the law, You should get yourself one or two. As to my press version of events they only regurgitate what your sindicated press puts out, you might have noticed my verson of events came from the ABC a somewhat respected organisation in some parts of the world because they have no commercial axe to grind or media mogals with big agendas but they only have correspondents in your "fair" land.
I personally am for responsible policing but it needs to be without bias, which is very difficult when you have a community which doesn't respect the law and a law which doesn't respect the community. I cite recent events as evidence of my statement and my perch is secure on the spectator fence. i'm interested in the outcome because we have a certain element here who take their lead from your "civil rights" movement and if they see lawlessness succeeding we can expect they will try the same tactics and claim police brutality, bias, etc.. I am very much in sympathy with a community which has probably seen enough of violent protest and so I see the resignation, if that is what it was, as progress towards a brighter future and not a negative. Someone had to fall on their sword and it was his turn. I expect the Governor of that state should be next for allowing this situation to get as far as it has, but the electorate can deal with him, because you cannot say this situation would not have been apparent from afar off
It's still regurgitated news, second hand at best, and no inkling of independent investigation, so take it with a grain of salt as you should.
Glad your system works for you, but as I have told you many times before, the US has 5 times the people as Australia, and as you grow, so will the complexities of your own society, and structure, and the issues associated with that growth, so stop comparing us, to you, with your nose in the air like you have solved all your problems.
You are just getting started on your island.
exactly what the emperor wants policing controlled by Washington. That in a nut shell what this is all about.Quote:
but we never made the mistake of having local law enforcement.
Yeah, because the locals are doing such a great job without Washington, right?
what better way to consolidate power in the central government ? !!!! A Common Core for policing ! It's already in motion with 'The President's Task Force on21st Century Policing ' that was published last week ;conveniently around the same time as this Ferguson report by the Justice Dept . Coincidence ? I don't think so.
http://www.cops.usdoj.gov/pdf/taskfo..._TF_Report.pdf
It also comes a couple months after UN Sec General Ban Ki Moon called for the US police forces to comply with international standards ;whatever that means.
The emperor said :
“I’m going to be asking Eric Holder and the Justice Department and his successor to go through all of these recommendations so that we can start implementing them,” .... “I know one area that’s going to be of great interest is whether we can expand the [DOJ Office of Community Oriented Policing Services (COPS)] program that in the past has been very effective, continues to be effective, but is largely underfunded.”
And there is the key to his plan . He will continuously add more conditions to Federal funding that goes to local policing ;forcing them to toe the line. Of course that course of action would require Congressional consent ......except that we live in a post -Constitutional America.
You obviously have no idea of how media works, stories about you are purchased from wire services, ditto for us. I have seen verbatum news articles about us on CNN that featured in local newspapers and vice a versa. Murdoch who owns News is Australian and his media empire originated here so don't look down your nose about our news services because you are looking down your nose at your ownQuote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Yes sometimes it does but once again you show your ignorance of us, The US is 15 times the population but we are not divdied up into 50 little states so our solutions are executed for state populations which may be similar to yours in many instances. However, we have an economy which is among the top twenty in the world demonstrating that our people are highly productive so we must be doing something right.It is big enough to face the loss of our car industry without whinning about it. If we have issues with growth it is that it is slowing down. If you think about these factors, as a reasoning man should, you would not be so dismissive because we are not the fountain of all wisdom and nor are you.Quote:
Glad your system works for you, but as I have told you many times before, the US has 5 times the people as Australia, and as you grow, so will the complexities of your own society, and structure, and the issues associated with that growth, so stop comparing us, to you, with your nose in the air like you have solved all your problems.
Again the dismissive as if you think about us like we are Haiti. You tell us not to look down our nose at you and yet you do the same to us. You are like the Oozlum bird, You should come down out of that rarified atmosphere sometime.This is not a little island, it is a land as vast and diverse as your own. The sixth largest country in the world not counting its Antarctic and marine territories. We have pastoral enterprises bigger than some of your states.You think of your own state as big, it is just a postage stamp compared to some.Quote:
You are just getting started on your island
It is for the most part well governed with less social problems because we have never permitted ourselves to be tainted by slavery and repression. Our history is not short and if we count the tales of some early inhabitants 40,000 years but our recent 200 year history is not something to be dismissed, it just wasn't as bloody as yours. We didn't need two revolutions to create our nation.
That's a fair assessment, as I reject most what I call GENERIC news accounts be they yours, or the ones I have available.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
I do not dismiss the people or politics of your island at all Clete. You have much to be proud of, and hopeful about. Lets be clear it is YOUR dismissive attitude I blast, because I see it as both prejudiced and narrow, and take offense at your comparisons of my apples, and your oranges that boosts your ego by trying to take the US down a few pegs.Quote:
Yes sometimes it does but once again you show your ignorance of us, The US is 15 times the population but we are not divdied up into 50 little states so our solutions are executed for state populations which may be similar to yours in many instances. However, we have an economy which is among the top twenty in the world demonstrating that our people are highly productive so we must be doing something right.It is big enough to face the loss of our car industry without whinning about it. If we have issues with growth it is that it is slowing down. If you think about these factors, as a reasoning man should, you would not be so dismissive because we are not the fountain of all wisdom and nor are you.
We didn't whine when our auto industry faced great challenges either, we overcame the challenges. Should I beat you over the head with that FACT, and claim intellectual superiority? That would be vastly unfair on my part wouldn't it?
Quit making this about YOUR country Clete, as I always explain its about your opinions, and viewpoints, that we fail to agree on, and yes I do tend to be dismissive in that context of disagreement.Quote:
Again the dismissive as if you think about us like we are Haiti. You tell us not to look down our nose at you and yet you do the same to us. You are like the Oozlum bird, You should come down out of that rarified atmosphere sometime.This is not a little island, it is a land as vast and diverse as your own. The sixth largest country in the world not counting its Antarctic and marine territories. We have pastoral enterprises bigger than some of your states.You think of your own state as big, it is just a postage stamp compared to some.
You have to admit that you came along at the right time in history Clete, to avoid major wars and revolutions, I mean your colonizers left without a war, ours got the boot. So it was a case of more luck than skill, sorry to blow your bubble, but you still insist of comparing apples to oranges.Quote:
It is for the most part well governed with less social problems because we have never permitted ourselves to be tainted by slavery and repression. Our history is not short and if we count the tales of some early inhabitants 40,000 years but our recent 200 year history is not something to be dismissed, it just wasn't as bloody as yours. We didn't need two revolutions to create our nation.
Your social problems will grow more complex when you have a more diverse and larger amount of cats to herd, Clete. I refer you to India, and China much older and larger in population than either of our nations. Or Europe, for that matter, yet we all are affected by global conditions, some more than others, and some actually make those policies, while some prosper in such a climate, expansion brings it's own cause and effects growth disparities.
When I refer to "YOU", I seldom mean your country, but what YOU have written and opined. There is a huge difference!
Tal I think I know when you are making a personal comment and let's put it this way we didn't come along at the right time in history, ours was an unknown land further from Europe than your own. Big difference between 3,000 miles and 12,000 miles. You could liken colonising Australia to colonising Mars. We didn't have revolution here because the British having had experience with unruly colonials in the americas suppressed any spark before it could gather momentum, and we didn't have 200 years to build up our population, also our people did not possess financial resources as yours did so we couldn't be conveniently taxed. The British also learned that permitting a certain level of local autonomy can also be in their favour and we had an orderly transition
In some respects we face similar challenges we both have systems of government that fail to implement good policy because of partisanism but externally we have similar views on tackling challenges. Internally, our methods and policies are very different and our views are not as polarised as yours
Okay Clete here's one for you in light of you yammering about minorities,
Watch What Happens When a White Guy With a Gun Confronts Police
Tell me a mouthy black guy with a gun wouldn't get his arse kicked by the white cops!
I'm not sure what conclusion I'm supposed to draw from that, a mad man walking along a road? Or someone making a video of the snow, but a threat to public order, probably not. You obviously have a different level of tolerance because if it was a public carry here he would he bagged and tagged, not necessarily in that order
That's the sort of the reaction I thought you would have.
He wouldn't have to be black for that to happen we take guns seriously and we don't assume personal rights eclipse public safety anyway our "blacks" don't carry guns, we have not yet annoyed them to the point where they feel they need to
Good for you.
Yes Tal it is good for us because we don't need our police to feel every encounter is a potential kill or be killed. Nor does the average citizen need to feel intimidated by the presence of such people.
It seems your theory is flawed. Lawful open carry is allowed by law. If you have a problem with that then that is where your anger needs to be adressed.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Black Open Carry: Why Gun Rights and Civil Rights Need Each Other - Reason.com
Is Open Carry Dangerous For A Black Man? - Black Man With A Gun™
Man police shot in Walmart killed over fake gun, family says | www.daytondailynews.com
And
12-year-old boy shot by Cleveland police has died | cleveland.com
You explain the different ways cops treat people then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
We dont know at this time why the police were called to the walmart. There is very little to go on other then what the girlfriend is saying. Id like to see the video before passing judgement on that one.
As far as the boy being shot that is different in that the police got a call saying someone was producing a gun and pointing it at people. There was no reliable source as to if it was fake or not until it was over. It is sad that it happened but if someone is waving a gun or mistakenly pulls it out even if it is fake then your most likely going to be shot.
So can I just get this straight, toy guns are treated as real these days
You tell me what you think. If the orange tip is missing or painted over it looks real to me.
Airsoft Guns - Airsoft GI - the largest airsoft store on the planet
I guess there is a replica for everything but those are not toys
It's a fact that children, or the mentally challenged, don't always respond appropriately to harsh command or when scared or surprised. The police having a shoot first ask questions later mentality is a lousy response at best and one of fear and not professionalism, and is the leading cause of these avoidable tragedies.
Video shows Dallas police shooting mentally ill man
Four cops and one guy with a screw driver?
Screwdriver, knife, does it matter? Such things can be offensive weapons but cops have ways of subdueing people that don't involve shooting they just don't choose to use them because there is still a risk. Don't know how it goes over there but cops have killed a number of suspects with tasers here in similar circumstances. The mentality may be more than ask questions later it maybe I'm the authority around here and you do what I say or you're dead
Did I mention 4 cops with NIGHTSTICKS, and tasers??
Yes well maybe your cops have more fun than ours, I haven't seen a baton in years, non lethal methods seem to have gone out of vogue even though they are much talked about
Most of our cops are not bad, its just some that make deadly, tragic mistakes.
Ditto, I'm unsure that ours actually make mistakes, I think their training directs them to take certain steps and with an unresponsive paniced suspect it leads to tradegy. High speed chases are a case in point
South Carolina protesters decry police shooting - BBC News
There can be no excuse for this action, even if the "suspect" was fleeing this is no reason to execute him and I use the word execute in context for this was an execution killing. Actions like this call for a whole new approach to policing, perhaps police should be relieved of their firearms so they can get in touch with the community again
I dont see the whole story in the video. It is hard to tell what is really going on for that situation. All you see is a reaction and someone being shot. From the way the story reads there was alot more to it.
The cop was fired and arrested . He will be tried and found guilty of murder .
Good thing a citizen caught the whole thing on camera. They had already started lying and sweeping it under the rug. Been hard to hide those bullet wounds to the back though.
There was no ambiguity . The cop used unnecessary and excessive force. Then he tried to plant false evidence to justify the murder. Who is the "they " who tried to sweep it under the rug ? I'll answer the question for you . It was officer Michael Thomas Slager who was trying to create a narrative where the shooting was justified . Multiple shots in the back would've completely discredited his narrative with or without the video.
It seems clear there is a policy of shoot first, yes this was excessive but a better term is unmitigated murder, what if he did run away, they had his car, they would know his identity, this is just mindless violence. I suggest he ran because he knew he was going to be killed This is gun culture at its worst
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-0...spects/6379472
you can make that speculation if you want to . Or you can listen to his parents and why they think he ran..... because he owed back child support ;because he had been arrested multiple times ,including one for assault and battery.....or maybe he did not want to get tasered .
This is all pretty irrelevent to the incident . The fact is that Slager was in no danger and had no real reason to gun him down.
Ezell Ford, investigation ongoing .
Akai Gurley ,office Peter Liang charged with manslaughter
Tamir Rice . Both officers involved put on administrate leave .An independent investigation by the Cuyahoga County Sheriff's Department is ongoing . Results will be handed to a Grand Jury
John Crawford . A Grand Jury decided to not charge the officers involved . The Justice Dept is doing it's own investigation.
Tony Terrell Robinson ;the shooting was justified .
Anthony Hill ,Georgia Bureau of Investigation investigation ongoing .
What does that prove, that there is a process or that more often than not there is a problem?
Maybe in order to understand things other sources need to be looked at.
OK, fine. Let's talk about 'black-on-black' violence. - Vox
Yes but that doesn't offer much more than say there is disadvantage. Stop making excuses and understand that a whole different approach is needed. How many incidents are where there is a lone police officer? How many incidents are where there is a behavorial element such as non compliance with police directions. Could it be police methods are too heavy handed? Is there an assumption that a population will behave in a particular manner and why? Need I go on?
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