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Do you need to take them away or oppress any of our other rights to get to the next election? As I said, we're not going to bend over and take it in the while you destroy our rights any more than I would expect you to. Get over it, that's America and defending our county from domestic enemies, including our own government IS patriotic.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
What would possibly cause anyone to go after our government with guns? Vote, don't shoot. And -- can't wait to see who has the better firepower and who wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
what sort of twisted notion is this that insurrection is patriotic. look at the facts, this isn't government oppression, it is a commercial transaction where one party has breached the contract and the government, being the other party,,has the right of redress. It is incidential to the debate that the government (BLM) is one of the parties. This is not WACO although it seems to be a little WACHO.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
That your nation was founded in insurrection doesn't justify any civilian action here
Protecting a law breaker isn't patriotic. And no guns have been taken away. Matter of fact gun sales seem to be soaring.
Thank the ramapnt disgust of Obama, and the complete lack of trust of anyone in his administration for that... people feel the need to protect themselves against the criminal element Obama apparently embraces while he screws the productive part of society... and protect themselves from a government that no longer represnts their best interests.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
and there you have the foolishness of this debate, predicated in false information
Nothing false in Obamas class warfare... and race baiting. Its well known in this country. Everything he does is one or the other....some things are both.
really how often does he use the words right wing, red neck, WASP, what is racist is your insistence that since he is black he must be racist, or that since he has concern for the poor or underpriviliged he must be racist, but don't worry three and a little more years from now, you will be shuck of this president who dared to be black. If he were not black the question of racism would not come up
Since this thread has gone off the wall, I would like to make a prediction. " There will be a civil war in this country, and the "Brown Shirt Civilian Army" that Obama wants to form that will be as well equipt as our military will be manned by the 68,000 criminals that Holder is freeing". So much for land grabs.
absolute paranoia
Clete it is a state's power issue. The Feds own over 80% of the land in the state of Nevada . If transferred ,it would benefit the state to the tune of $114 million a year according to the Nevada Public Land Management Task Force .Bundy is right in saying it is the state that should own the land and collect any grazing fees .
Tal says that the other ranchers in the area pay the fees. He should say PAID the fees ,because the BLM used the fees to drive the other ranchers off the land . This is NOT a matter of Bundy being some kind of scoff-law . He is trying to protect his historic grazing rights on the land .
This is similar to another case in the same area. Raymond Yowell, an 84 year-old Shoshone chief, had his herd seized by BLM .They auctioned off his cattle and then sent him an additional bill for $180,000;which they collect by garnishing his Social Security check. He also had historic grazing rights that were bolstered by a treaty the government signed with his tribe (the Treaty of Ruby Valley of 1863). His cattle were on reservation lands . But SCOTUS decided that the government had the power to manage the reservation lands . BLM does not like cattle grazing , so they used the bs endangered desert tortoise canard on him. Yes he also has lost in court ;but in his case ,the 9th Circus Court of Appeals reversed the lower court's decision. He is now representing himself in SCOTUS. He has also sued the BLM and the Treasury Department for $30 million.
Nevada tribal leader, 81, sues BLM for $30M | Reznet News
Tom the government owns the land, whether they should or not or whether the have acted unlawfully you have courts. As you have demonstrated one plaintiff is using the courts why the other engages in cowboy macho crap
and the one using the courts had his cattle seized and auctioned off and the government is stealing money from his retirement . Does the government wait for courts before acting ?
Says everyone who cheered those filthy, violent, private property destroying occupier squatters.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
I don't cheer lawlessness
What your missing is that it is very dangerous for the fox to be guarding the hen house. Of course the federal government is going to try to rule in its own favor. The largest problem being faced right now is the the government walked out on court proceedings when they were losing and moved the ball to the court that had their back. That is how we got to be where we are at today.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Another thing that you keep missing is that the second amendment prevents another Nazi Germany situation from forming in this country. That is why every citizen needs to be vigilant when it comes to government powers.
The increase in government heavy handedness and the lack of regaurd to rights has been increasing. Drones are overhead and police forces are arming up as only the military used to be. There are laws that prevent the military in domestic situations and now they are trying to make an end around it. That ia why so many are being watchful of this government.
you have a military that can be controlled by a state government, this is where you need to be very carefull. The nazi situation is very unlikely to arise in your country, not because you are armed, but because you don't think in absolutes, and you have never lost a war and degenerated into poverty. however continue to improverish your citizens and we will see
Au contraire. A goodly portion of this continent did precisely that, and were kept in poverty by the very same political party that's in power here right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
well yes but I'm referring to an external war, not something that is self inflicted. The nazi arose out a loss of a war and the stringent reparations which reduced Germany and created a resentment the nazi could turn to advantage. There was noone looking after their poor. the population you were referring to were a few individuals of privilege amid a population of poor
maybe armed Federal agents should be flexing their muscle here instead .
N4T Investigators: Rogue Mexican Army troops crossing the line | KVOA.com | Tucson, Arizona
and in Alaska ,the Feds want to seize Indian lands.
Feds consider taking Alaska tribal land into trust
What's wrong with Alaskan Indians having the same right of self governance as the other Indians of America? Why should natives be ruled by immigrants?Quote:
The rule barring the department from taking Alaska tribal land into trust dates back to 1980. That's when the program was created for lower 48 Native Americans. It is among "Alaska exceptions" denying Alaska Natives the same rights as lower 48 Indians and it is partly the legacy of the 1971 Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act.
The president of the National Congress of American Indians said he was "greatly encouraged" by the proposed rule change.
We have a Kenyan doing that now...Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
No that's an immigrant governing other immigrants and that includes YOU.
you sure you spelt that right
Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
They were immigrants too... they just got here before we did. THey didn't evolve into homosapeans here... they did that someplace else long before they came here.
I had a long conversation with some Utes when I was at Mesa Verde. They didn't speak so kindly of the" trust relationship between the federal government and tribal governments". Didn't sound like they trusted the Federal Government at all.Quote:
The trust relationship between the federal government and tribal governments is the foundation of all policies affecting Indian Country," Brian Cladoosby said in a statement released Thursday. "That Alaska Native peoples have been cut out of this critical arrangement is unacceptable and has created myriad problems for those tribes."
Indians have right wingers too? Imagine that.
I grew up with several Cherokee whose great grandparents hid from the Feds of Andrew Jackson. They're not real thrilled with the record of the Federal Government's trustworthiness either.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
No your history of dealing with indigenous peoples is appalling,What was it they said "white man speaks with forked tongue"? You haven't changed your ways
Can't say your countries was much better.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Well we didn't set out to cheat them, we didn't exercute treaties and then uproot the natives and move them a thousand miles away or conduct death matches. We didn't make military incursions with the intention of wiping them out, what we did was just ignore their existence for say a hundred years or two. So when you speak about what others have done remember we do what we do with a different ethos and we recognise mistakes and change
Breaking news
Congressman: Bundy Militia Has Set Up Road 'Checkpoints' In Nevada
Trying to confirm reports of skirmishes between rival militias.Quote:
The militia, as reported by Horsford's constituents, "have set up checkpoints where residents are required to prove they live in the area before being allowed to pass," the letter said.
They have also maintained a presence, sometimes armed, along highways and roads, as well as community sites like churches and schools, the letter asserted.
so far the only casualty from road blocks in the area was the killing of D’Andre Berghardt Jr by BLM agents.
That was in February. What does that have to do with the militia's policing Bunkerville? Why? On whose authority?
It's a free country... what authority does the BLM have to do what they were doing threatening and shooting people and their animals.
Next thing THe Department of Education will be shooting people for having outstanding parking tickets.
Get a cup of coffee and tell me what you would do if a couple of armed out of state vigilantes asked you to show papers and explain what your business is in YOUR own neighborhood. It's a free country but making it a lawless one in light of your rant about a lawless administration is ridicules and you know it.
To add BLM had a lawful court order to deal with Bundy until those out of state militias showed up. That seems to be a problem for you Smoothy without that cup of coffee you get lame, and entitled and fail to see the utter hypocrisy of your position. Your account of events is grossly inaccurate.
No wonder Obama moons you, and sent you lipstick for Christmas.
They aren't policing Bunkerville. They remain on private property with the exception of small groups tagging along with Bundy. Being on private property is no crime so long as it is done with permission. In this case they do have the permission of the owner.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
As militia digs in, neighbors grow weary of Cliven Bundy brouhaha - Las Vegas Sun News
What business did the BLM have in Nevada with paid mercenary snipers anyway?Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
And if any of US hired mercenary snipers... we'd be doing a long stint in a Federal prison.
THe BLM isn't the police....they don't have police powers...and they certainly aren't a private army.
Really not surprised Tal...You think the NY Slimes and the Washington comPost Are some kind of pillars of indisputible fact and the only news fit to print....if they don't cover it then it didn't happen. Fact is there are a LOT of things going on ignored by the Pro-Obama press who fudged reality to help get him into office and for the most part are still covering up for all his transgressions......except in a few cases where cracks are forming and they let slip out something not favorible to him from time to time.
The alternative media have more facts on a daily basis than all of the pro-Obama drive by media have in their collective.
What business did the BLM have in Nevada with paid mercenary snipers anyway?
You cannot ignore he was on federal land, and given an order to vacate. Like any other non paying squatter.
And if any of US hired mercenary snipers... we'd be doing a long stint in a Federal prison.
We agree Bundy and his volunteer mercenaries protecting him from arrest should e in federal prison.
THe BLM isn't the police... they don't have police powers... and they certainly aren't a private army.
Yes they do, on federal lands.
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