It all depends on her experience with her parents. It is always preferable to keep it in the family as it were.Quote:
Anyone but the mom and/or dad, the people who love her most and know her better than anyone, right?
|
It all depends on her experience with her parents. It is always preferable to keep it in the family as it were.Quote:
Anyone but the mom and/or dad, the people who love her most and know her better than anyone, right?
I agree, but in a rational world whoever she confides in would involve the parents in most cases, one way or another.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
One tough woman won a battle in Texas' version of the war on women.
The problem with the bill?Quote:
A bill that opponents claimed would virtually ban abortion in Texas failed to pass late Tuesday after lawmakers missed a deadline by just minutes.
There were chaotic scenes after a filibuster attempt fell just short and protesters cheered, clapped and shouted from 11:45 p.m. to midnight and beyond as lawmakers tried to hold the vote before the session ended at midnight (1 a.m. ET).
The filibuster by Sen. Wendy Davis, D-Fort Worth, who wore a back brace, lasted almost 11 hours but ended after three challenges to her speech were upheld.
The only way Democrats in the Republican-controlled Senate could defeat the measure was by not letting it come to a vote on Tuesday.
Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst, acting as Senate president, initially said the voting began just before midnight, NBCDFW.com reported, and several reports suggested that the bill had been passed after a 19-10 vote and would go to Gov. Rick Perry.
But Dewhurst later announced that the vote had been held too late.
We can't have standards to protect women now can we? OK, so maybe requiring them to graded as surgical centers might be a little extreme, or is it? Would you have a D&C in just any ol' clinic?Quote:
The measure would have banned abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy and would have required all clinics to be graded as surgical centers, with all doctors required to have admitting privileges at hospitals. It's estimated that nearly all of the state's clinics wouldn't have been able to meet the new standards.
Hello again, Steve:
Look. You don't give a sh1t about medical procedures... You're NOT interested in a D&C, or admitting privileges. Why are you talking about them? You're pissed because abortion WASN'T curtailed. Just say it.
excon
There you go, try and have a reasonable discussion and you froth at the mouth instead. It was reasonable question, one that deserves to be answered. Do you want women in clinics like Gosnells or do you think abortion clinics should be regulated in any way? Put your money where your mouth is, ex, or like PP is that we want to make abortions "safe and rare" just empty words?Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Hello Steve:
No, like ANY supporter of abortion, I want ALL baby's to be torn limb from limb... And, you CARE about women's health and D&C's.
Ok?? Happy now? Do you want to keep bullsh1tting or should we get on with it?
excon
Forgive my naïveté, but before Gosnell I just assumed that abortion clinics were held to some sort of standards, subject to inspections and such - especially those who perform late term abortions. It is SURGERY so why would anyone throw a fit, in fact in this case, totally disrupt the Texas legislature to see to it that women are not protected by a medical standard? Really?? Would you have a colonoscopy at an unregulated clinic?
Hello again, Steve:Quote:
Would you have a colonoscopy at an unregulated clinic?
If you right wingers OUTLAWED it, what choice would I have?
Excon
PS> Are we still pretending that your position on abortion is based on women's health?? Ok, I'll play along.
I have seen some bad ones myself Speech and I had assumed things had gotten better, but I agree there is a need for more regulation and oversight, but my problem is in the area of compliance because the structural changes as a practical matter cannot happen in the time the states, including Texas is demanding.
Now if your goal is to shut down a specific business immediately, which it is, then denying a proper period of compliance is the tool to use, and that's been the conservative MO for many years. I stop at admitting privileges though, for now.
You know I have not called for a ban and don't believe that would ever happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Uh, we aren't the ones that have been pretending abortion was a "women's health" issue all this time. That's MY point, it either is or it isn't, and if it IS you wouldn't object to making sure their clinics were SAFE. Besides, I thought you guys LOVED regulations.Quote:
PS> Are we still pretending that your position on abortion is based on women's health?? Ok, I'll play along.
I have never seen anything have no compliance window, care to elaborate?Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Hello again, Steve:
But, you DO support the defeated Texas bill, that would have left the state of Texas with 2 abortion clinics.Quote:
You know I have not called for a ban
For a poor women living across the state, that's a ban. You can call it something else, and you will, but it's a BAN.
Excon
It goes well beyond clean and sanitary as doorways and hallways have to be expanded to meet the NEW compliance codes that Texas is trying to mandate.
Texas Abortion Bill Could Close Most Of State's Clinics
Quote:
part of a growing national trend of so-called "TRAP" (Targeted Regulation of Abortion Providers) bills, would require all abortion clinics in Texas to meet the same physical requirements as ambulatory surgical centers, even if they do not perform surgical abortions. Clinics would have to have surgical operating rooms of at least 240 square feet, specific flooring for janitors' closets, and new ventilation systems that can sterilize operating rooms and regulate the humidity of administrative offices -- all requirements that would be hard to fulfill.
Quote:
Only five of the 42 clinics in Texas are currently licensed as ambulatory surgical centers, according to a Planned Parenthood spokesperson. If the bill becomes law, the other 37 clinics will either be forced to close down or to undergo costly and extensive building renovations in order to comply. The five clinics that would remain open are in Texas' major metropolitan areas -- Dallas, Houston, Austin and San Antonio -- so women in most rural parts of Texas would have to drive much farther in order to access abortion care.
Texas legislators have already passed a mandatory ultrasound law, a law mandating a 24-hour waiting period before abortions and a law prohibiting Planned Parenthood from participating in the state's low-income Women's Health Program.
Only 11 of the clinics that would be affected by the new TRAP bill are Planned Parenthood clinics -- the rest are independent providers.
What did that have to do with a compliance window?Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Do you care about the health and safety of women or not? That is the question.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Out of compliance is cause for immediate shutdown. There is no clause that allows them time to comply or arrange to comply. That's like your job changes the certification requirements tomorrow and give you until the next day to meet those requirements.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Would that be fair?
I care and I am sure we all do, and speaking for myself, and NOT EX, I think poor women should get the same care as well to do women. The laws by states to limit, or eliminate abortions vastly affects poor women.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
That makes you a bully!!
I wasn't taking a position, I was asking you, what does the bill say about a window of compliance? No dancing around, I want to know what the bill says about that and then I will give an answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Oh waaa! You just throw that crap out to try and end the debate and make us look like knuckle draggers which makes YOU the bully. Can you lefties even have a discussion without resorting to such bullsh!t?Quote:
I care and I am sure we all do, and speaking for myself, and NOT EX, I think poor women should get the same care as well to do women. The laws by states to limit, or eliminate abortions vastly affects poor women.
That makes you a bully!!
It's a simple question, do you think abortion clinics should be subject to standards? Do you think they should be regulated, inspected, what? I mean really Tal, if we can't come to an agreement on making the places safe we can't agree on anything. I'm willing, are you? Or is the institution of abortion more sacred than the lives of the women you claim to protect?
Hello again, Steve:Quote:
It's a simple question, do you think abortion clinics should be subject to standards?
Now, you're telling us that you CARE about the size of the hallways in abortion clinics... Who're you trying to kid? You and your state, want 'em CLOSED down.
You ASK about standards, as though they MATTER to you. But, as tal was explaining to you, these AREN'T standards aimed at the health of the woman.. They're aimed at SHUTTING the clinics down..
As long as you PRETEND they're otherwise, you're not going to get serious debate from me because you can't even talk about what's REALLY going on ON the ground...
Over to you, Pretender...
Excon
You can defend yourself against me, but can poor women and children and old people defend themselves against the laws the right wing proposes?
Looking up the time for compliance procedure, which is subject to change from the existing one, if the legislature passes a new law, which would bring existing buildings into the same realm as new ones. Under the old law they are under compliance I will note.
Dude, I repeat - it is not we who have made the issue one about women's health and making abortion "safe and rare." I have always supported that notion in reality, not empty words. Either put up or shut up, do we make sure clinics are safe or not? It's not a hard question.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Signed -not the pretender.
Why even go to a clinic if they can go to a nice clean doctors office? Oh that's right, clinics are for poor people who don't have a doctor.
And who protects them from the butcher? I just to know this compliance window because if it's immediate - your claim - that's unreasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Otherwise, a clinic that performs surgical abortions should be subject to the same standards as any other surgery center would be my view. I see no reason the standard should be lower but I'm sure you think access is a good enough reason to jeopardize their lives.
So you are OK with dirty clinics for poor people? Dude!Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Hello again, Pretender:Quote:
So you are OK with dirty clinics for poor people? Dude!
Still PRETENDING these regulations have ANYTHING to do with dirty clinics or poor people?? Really?? Dude!!
Excon
It was an opening and they took it. Happy? Now, can we discuss this or not? I gave my opinion already:Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Your turn:Quote:
And who protects them from the butcher? I just [want] to know this compliance window because if it's immediate - your claim - that's unreasonable.
Otherwise, a clinic that performs surgical abortions should be subject to the same standards as any other surgery center would be my view. I see no reason the standard should be lower but I'm sure you think access is a good enough reason to jeopardize their lives.
I repeat - it is not we who have made the issue one about women's health and making abortion "safe and rare." I have always supported that notion in reality, not empty words. Either put up or shut up, do we make sure clinics are safe or not? It's not a hard question.
Signed -not the pretender.
Hello not:Quote:
Your turn
I don't know WHAT I'd do if I was a poor woman who lived in the corner of your state where you ELIMINATED abortion clinics. I suppose if I wanted an abortion, I'd be FORCED to go to an unregulated/illegal clinic where it probably ain't too clean...
What do you think a poor woman WOULD do? Have her baby because you took away her access to a SAFE abortion?? Really??
I suppose you do.. You think making pot illegal would STOP people from smoking pot...
Excon
So you don't believe abortion clinics should be regulated to provide a SAFE environment, why didn't you just say so?Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Don't you have a better process for regulations that take into account the females affected now? Like a temporary relaxing of regulations that allow doctors and hospitals to help already pregnant woman who need safe care NOW, or in a month?
Why would you object to that if indeed the health and safety of the woman is indeed the priority and NOT the IMMEDIATE closing of clinics that do not meet the new law. At some point between words and actions poor females are left short aren't they.
So clarify your motives instead of questioning everyone else's. So the question becomes what about current poor females who need help? What option do they have while you close their one option?
I'm the only one who has been clear here, you and ex have danced all over the placeQuote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
For the THIRD time:
Quote:
And who protects them from the butcher? I just [want] to know this compliance window because if it's immediate - your claim - that's unreasonable.
Otherwise, a clinic that performs surgical abortions should be subject to the same standards as any other surgery center would be my view. I see no reason the standard should be lower but I'm sure you think access is a good enough reason to jeopardize their lives.
Quote:
I repeat - it is not we who have made the issue one about women's health and making abortion "safe and rare." I have always supported that notion in reality, not empty words. Either put up or shut up, do we make sure clinics are safe or not? It's not a hard question.
Signed -not the pretender.
So you pass a law one day, close a clinic the next and nobody gets hurt? What sucks Speech, is there are no in between plan for those caught in the middle of the process like your side doesn't care.
We have agreed in principle on many things, but when it comes to the effects on real people, you guys say though your on your own. Your implementation plans suck.
The war on women is alive and well here no only have they shafted our only female prime minister but they are lamenting a 27% turnout for candidates. I wonder, whose fault is that? Needless to say I am not in favour of affirmative action in parachuting women into seats just to make up the numbers. They should be there on merit just like everyone else
Equal treatment is considered a war on women ? She deserved to be ousted at least as much as KRudd .Quote:
no only have they shafted our only female prime minister
What part me saying having no compliance window is unreasonable (for the 4th time now) are you not understanding? I'm still waiting on you to show me there is no window for compliance.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Beyond that, why should an abortion clinic that performs surgical abortions not be regulated like any other surgery center? If you don't believe they should be then explain why pregnant women deserve less protection than others.
If it wasn't for the fact that these "clinics" provide abortions ,the lefties would demand their immediate closure for the substandard conditions .Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Hello again, Steve:
And, if they don't widen the hallways the way YOU want, you'll CLOSE them down, and the women won't get ANY protection...Quote:
If you don't believe they should be then explain why pregnant women deserve less protection than others.
So, STOP pretending your regulations have ANYTHING to do protecting pregnant women..
What?? Did you think I was going to go away?
Excon
So far it seems to be a matter of what jurisdiction is applying the standards. But the stated goal of the new laws is to close the abortion clinics in Texas. The same tactics other states are using for the same goal which has nothing to do with women's safety.
Like telling an 80 year old for a birth certificate to get an ID to vote. The laws that Perry and the repubs are pushing through in a special session cannot be complied with in a reasonable time frame just because of costs and contracting considerations and they knew full well that compliance is not possible.
Only going by what Perry and his cronies have so far said about what they are doing and how they go about it.
Further it seems that each clinic is physically different, both in size age and location and running down the individual specifics of 37 affected facilities is daunting.
Look I get that safety should be first, but the standards of that safety at this time appears both arbitrary, and capricious designed to eliminate not facilitate.
I believe it was doorways and why do you think there would be a standard? Maybe some guy like Gosnell botches the thing and someone needs to get the poor thing bleeding to death out of there in a hurry. It's all about emergency access and egress.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
You, the guy pitching a fit about "forcing a probe" up someone's vagina apparently think there is no risk involved in scalpels and other surgical instruments up a women's vagina.
So, for at least the FIFTH time, why should they not face the same standards as any other surgical center? Why will you not answer the question?
The same people would close a grocery because it didn't have a handicap ramp.
Since you won't answer the question I will assume you don't believe pregnant women deserve protection.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Your assumptions are wrong and its quite a stretch to take questioning of the process as I don't care.
| All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:48 AM. |