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  • Jun 29, 2013, 06:22 AM
    tomder55
    Yes Kalifornia is the big testing ground.. The emperor touts it's success. However ,it isn't working so well. Their exchange system is so successful that 3 of the major insurance companies in the nation are refusing to participate in Covered California . (United Health ,Aetna ,Cigna) The only thing successful about it is that Jerry Brown has been able to milk $910 billion out of the federal coffers . Instead of increasing the market and fostering competition ,the Kalifornia system is shrinking the number of providers and giving an even larger market share to Kaiser Permanante, Anthem Blue Cross, and Blue Shield . And who will pay for the lack of competition and the mandates imposed ? Well the Kalifornia consumer of course !
    Especially the young and healthy who are trying to begin families and careers.
    Implementing Obamacare: The rate-shock danger | The Economist
  • Jun 29, 2013, 06:40 AM
    paraclete
    Don't worry Tom soon you will only be able to afford one insurer and when that collapes under the weight...
  • Jun 29, 2013, 09:08 AM
    excon
    Hello again,

    I have a supposition to make. In order to discuss my supposition, you'd have to agree with my premise, and I don't think the right wingers will..

    My PREMISE is that, in spite of saying JOBS are their number #1 priority, abortion and voter ID laws are what they're actually DOING... However, in spite of the efforts to suppress the vote, the OPPOSITE happened, and the black people came out in droves. Obama won.

    My supposition is, that what we witnessed in the Texas legislature, is just the beginning of the backlash against the war on women. In SPITE of gerrymandering gone wild, I predict the Democrats will take over the House in 2014.

    excon
  • Jun 29, 2013, 09:48 AM
    tomder55
    Oh so it wasn't Hispanics that swung the vote in the Emperor's favor ? Hmmm . Actually it was the combination of lower white turnout because the milquetoast candidate the Repubics fielded ;the successful suppression of the conservative vote by the IRS ,and black women voters . Nationally, the voting rate among all women was about four percentage points higher than among all men. But among African-American voters, that gap was nearly nine percentage points.All that data-mining really helped .That is why the emperor defends the NSA blanket warrants .

    And about those jobs? What is the black unemployment rate 4 1/2 years later ? And what are the Dems doing about it ? Oh yeah ,they are creating legislation to bring in more low wage immigrants to compete with the black work force.

    Ex are you saying that tightened voter-registration laws result in greater participation on the part of blacks ? I agree ,it's good for blacks ,it's good for the integrity of the franchise .It's a win-win.
  • Jun 29, 2013, 04:31 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    ;the successful suppression of the conservative vote by the IRS ,

    Which planet do you live on. You need to prove that statement. The IRS may have delayed the registeration of some right wing organisations with political not charitable objectives but they did not make it a disadvantage to vote
  • Jun 30, 2013, 05:27 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again,

    I have a supposition to make. In order to discuss my supposition, you'd have to agree with my premise, and I don't think the right wingers will..

    My PREMISE is that, in spite of saying JOBS are their number #1 priority, abortion and voter ID laws are what they're actually DOING... However, in spite of the efforts to suppress the vote, the OPPOSITE happened, and the black people came out in droves. Obama won.

    My supposition is, that what we witnessed in the Texas legislature, is just the beginning of the backlash against the war on women. In SPITE of gerrymandering gone wild, I predict the Democrats will take over the House in 2014.

    excon

    In Texas, you've probably heard the economy is pretty good and we've been recruiting businesses to keep moving here so the jobs thing is covered. We had time to protect women from butchers and stop murdering kids after 20 weeks.

    As for your backlash and media orgasm, nice that libs are standing against the people (who overwhelmingly support this measure) and the powerless (the innocent child) in an attempt at mob rule.
  • Aug 14, 2013, 03:01 PM
    speechlesstx
    No, not a right-wing wacko update, a left-wing wacko update.
    Quote:


    Bankrupt? Detroit leaders still chasing away jobs


    Detroit lost a growing business this month and Detroit politicians cheered. The blue-collar jobs that Detroit Bulk Storage supports at its Detroit River loading dock will disappear this fall after U.S. Congressmen Gary Peters, D-Bloomfield Township, and John Conyers, D-Detroit, and state House Rep. Rashida Tlaib, D-Detroit, protested the loading of a coal-like energy source, petroleum coke, on barges for export to power plants. The Democratic frontrunner for Michigan’s 2014 Senate seat, Peters is already using his “victory” in a campaign ad to raise money.

    But what about Detroit’s business base?

    The loss of the pet coke loading business comes as Detroit also mourns the death of dynamic American Axle CEO Richard Dauch, coincidentally a few months after union intransigence had forced the demise of his huge Detroit auto parts plant at a loss of 300 jobs.

    As Detroit struggles through bankruptcy, the Detroit Bulk Storage and American Axle stories are grim reminders of how political and union leadership still hinder job creation in Detroit. They are a lesson beyond Detroit’s borders. If Motown is to put Chapter 9 in its rear view mirror — and if America is to jump-start its economy — then its political class must partner with business to grow, not use it as a political punching bag.
    Shaking my head...
  • Aug 14, 2013, 03:53 PM
    talaniman
    Of course there I more to the story than a poor businessman being run out of business

    https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/curren...ml#post3529456

    Detroit Mayor orders Koch brothers company to clean up that disgusting mess which created a black cloud over the river | FreakOutNation

    Detroit River - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Why stop at one article when there is so much more? Oh and anybody that tells you coal is clean is an absolute LIAR, don't care who says it. IT WILL KILL YOU.
  • Aug 14, 2013, 05:19 PM
    smoothy
    Everyone get out the tin foil hats...
  • Aug 14, 2013, 05:51 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Of course there I more to the story than a poor businessman being run out of business

    https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/curren...ml#post3529456

    Detroit Mayor orders Koch brothers company to clean up that disgusting mess which created a black cloud over the river | FreakOutNation

    Detroit River - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Why stop at one article when there is so much more?? Oh and anybody that tells you coal is clean is an absolute LIAR, don't care who says it. IT WILL KILL YOU.

    It isn't coal, and if you guys won't even talk because you're blinded by the thought it MIGHT hurt the environment then shut the hell up about squeal and repeal and obstruction. It's like your war on fracking in spite of the fact it's directly responsible for the shale gas boom and our reduction in CO2 emissions. Why do you guys hate science and jobs, and Canada which is where this pet coke us coming from?
  • Aug 14, 2013, 06:30 PM
    talaniman
    Well just dandy, we ignore the spills and breaks that have bubble up, here and Canada, that they clean up with bounty towels. How do you ignore the links of the places I have given you that they still haven't gotten the spills under control? Bet if it was YOUR neighborhood you would pay attention, or you river they polluted.

    Anyone that grown up near a coal processing plant or steel mill or oil refinery knows coal, petroleum, and all it's forms, and derivatives. Why do you think we sell it to China?
  • Aug 14, 2013, 06:36 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Well just dandy, we ignore the spills and breaks that have bubble up, here and Canada, that they clean up with bounty towels. How do you ignore the links of the places I have given you that they still haven't gotten the spills under control? Bet if it was YOUR neighborhood you would pay attention, or you river they polluted.

    Anyone that grown up near a coal processing plant or steel mill or oil refinery knows coal, petroleum, and all it's forms, and derivatives. Why do you think we sell it to China?

    Why do you ignore the current science and successes? You do know one of your seems just switched parties because of your nonexistent war on coal and jobs, right?
  • Aug 14, 2013, 06:59 PM
    talaniman
    The current science is a grid system that transfers clean energy all over the country efficiently and screw digging in the dirt.

    XL Pipeline Leak is STILL a Disaster (w/ video) - Gas 2

    Explain the successes to those people. I can dig progress and success, but what of safety, and the people it affects? Doesn't count because the profits just keep rolling.

    Who need clean air, water, and soil.
  • Aug 15, 2013, 03:22 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Anyone that grown up near a coal processing plant or steel mill or oil refinery knows coal, petroleum, and all it's forms, and derivatives.
    Why don't you ask the people of West Virginia if they want to see the coal industry shut down like the emperor plans ?
  • Aug 15, 2013, 04:41 AM
    smoothy
    I grew up in the middle of that... Coal... natural gas and Steel... I don't want ANY of them shut down. THose three are a huge percentage of the jobs and economy of the entire region where I am from... its not as big a part as it once was... but then that's why the economy of the region is so bad... because there was and is nothing to replace it, not even the small part that went away. And its been well over 30 years since the dumping of Japanese steel decimated the regions economy.. (Thecollapse of the steel industry took out a large part of the coal industry ad all the supporting industries for both).and its never recovered.
  • Aug 15, 2013, 05:12 AM
    talaniman
    Get a clue Tom, its not up to the people who work everyday and get filthy, its up to the guy who owns the land and makes the profits. Why don't you ask the real workers why they have to die in those mines because the boss cut corners on safety? Or the ones denied benefits and insurance when those mines get closed, or moved.

    You obviously have never been ordered into a hole before it was vented properly, ordered to pressurize a line before the concrete had set properly to hurry and save time and move a job along quickly to make profits. People die when you take short cut to save tie and money. Seems the human costs mean nothing to you capitalists.

    You can hate unions and Obama all you want because it also mean you value profits over people too. And you expect your workers to die making the boss rich.
  • Aug 15, 2013, 06:36 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Get a clue Tom, its not up to the people who work everyday and get filthy, its up to the guy who owns the land and makes the profits. Why don't you ask the real workers why they have to die in those mines because the boss cut corners on safety? Or the ones denied benefits and insurance when those mines get closed, or moved.

    You obviously have never been ordered into a hole before it was vented properly, ordered to pressurize a line before the concrete had set properly to hurry up and save time and move a job along quickly to make profits. People die when you take short cut to save tie and money. Seems the human costs mean nothing to you capitalists.

    You can hate unions and Obama all you want because it also mean you value profits over people too. And you expect your workers to die making the boss rich.

    Again with the union crap, they did their job. We have so many regulations via OSHA, MSHA, etc. that that greedy business owner has to comply with and if they don't, they get smacked down. You forget, my business is safety and I work with a multitude of energy companies, construction businesses and a nuclear weapons facility. You don't get on their property without adhering to their safety requirements, so you can drop the "we must have unions to stay safe" nonsense - I KNOW what's required by the regulations and the corporations and it's mind boggling.
  • Aug 15, 2013, 06:45 AM
    excon
    Hello again, righty's:

    Not moving further right?? Pick one for prez: Christy, Cruz, Paul, or Santorum. I would include Trump in that list, but this is a serious question.

    excon
  • Aug 15, 2013, 06:48 AM
    speechlesstx
    Christie is no righty and Paul is a libertarian. You used to like libertarians, you used to regularly say "vote for Ron Paul."
  • Aug 15, 2013, 06:53 AM
    excon
    Hello again, Steve:

    I like RON. His son sucks. He's NO libertarian. He's a righty HIDING in libertarian clothes.

    excon
  • Aug 15, 2013, 06:59 AM
    speechlesstx
    Ok.
  • Aug 15, 2013, 07:11 AM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    Again with the union crap, they did their job. We have so many regulations via OSHA, MSHA, etc. that that greedy business owner has to comply with and if they don't, they get smacked down. You forget, my business is safety and I work with a multitude of energy companies, construction businesses and a nuclear weapons facility. You don't get on their property without adhering to their safety requirements, so you can drop the "we must have unions to stay safe" nonsense - I KNOW what's required by the regulations and the corporations and it's mind boggling.

    It was the unions who pushed those companies for industry safety standards because guy like you never would, and again you ignore the fact that you enjoy a union fought for pay scale.

    You enjoy the effort of those who fought the battles you didn't want to, so get off the we don't need BS!!

    But I'll bite, which safety standard are you saying is so unfair it needs to be stopped?
  • Aug 15, 2013, 07:30 AM
    tomder55
    Christie is a RINO who counts the emperor's hemorrhoids.
  • Aug 15, 2013, 08:21 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    It was the unions who pushed those companies for industry safety standards because guy like you never would, and again you ignore the fact that you enjoy a union fought for pay scale.

    You enjoy the effort of those who fought the battles you didn't want to, so get off the we don't need BS!!

    Spare me the BS, Tal. I have already multiple times acknowledged the union role in worker safety and wages. If that's what they were about then fine, but as I said before they are about pushing a liberal political agenda and fattening their own wallets. Look what they've done to Detroit, but you'll blame that on greedy corporations because you have tunnel vision.

    Unions are UNNECESSARY, we have a government nanny now and I will not genuflect to the union gods who themselves worship at the Democratic altar. If you don't like it, get over it. I don't expect you to worship conservatism.

    Quote:

    But I'll bite, which safety standard are you saying is so unfair it needs to be stopped?
    Yet another total misrepresentation of what I said. The term was "mind boggling." Look it up.
  • Aug 15, 2013, 08:47 AM
    excon
    Hello again,

    What thread is this? Does it make a difference?? I don't think so...

    Having said that, I wonder what you wingers think about the policeman's union? It keeps cops on the beat who BEAT people up. You know, tough cops. Don't right wingers support TOUGH cops? Should the union represent THEM?

    Personally, I HATE the policeman's union... Until recently, that union DUPED the city into paying its president's SALARY because he was a uniformed cop.. But, his FULL TIME job was to run the union...

    excon
  • Aug 15, 2013, 09:04 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again,

    What thread is this?? Does it make a difference??? I don't think so...

    Having said that, I wonder what you wingers think about the policeman's union? It keeps cops on the beat who BEAT people up. You know, tough cops. Don't right wingers support TOUGH cops? Should the union represent THEM?

    Personally, I HATE the policeman's union... Until recently, that union DUPED the city into paying its president's SALARY because he was a uniformed cop.. But, his FULL TIME job was to run the union...

    excon

    That's the union's job, keep people in their jobs no matter how badly they suck at them to keep collecting those union dues to spend on Democrats, bus trips to harass people and stuff in their leader's wallets. What, you thought they were about safety and all that, too?
  • Aug 15, 2013, 09:15 AM
    excon
    Hello again, Steve:

    You hit the nail on the head... I've NEVER been thrilled about them. When a job I wanted required union membership, BECAUSE I didn't have a family member in the union, they wouldn't let me join...

    Nonetheless, unions are the ONLY large organizations that contribute to Democrats.. If they were gone, the field would be left to the Koch brothers and the Karl Rove types. That's what the PURPOSE of Citizens United was, wasn't it - to give the MONEYED interests a clear playing field?

    So, as much as I HATE the unions, as long as they're the ONLY voice of the left, they'll GET my support..

    Now, repeal Citizens United, and I'll get behind ending the unions..

    excon
  • Aug 15, 2013, 09:38 AM
    tomder55
    Doesn't matter that public service unions represent the largest unionized work force in the country(The Bureau of Labor Statistics reports that, in 2009, for the first time ever, more public-sector employees (7.9 million) than private-sector employees (7.4 million) belonged to unions. )...

    Or that public employees should not have union representation at all.
    (even FDR understood that ).
  • Aug 15, 2013, 09:47 AM
    speechlesstx
    LOL, you are seriously deluded if you think (or want us to) unions are the only large organization that contributes to Democrats. I guess you forget how much money Soros, his buddy and MoveOn alone spend on Dems and liberal/progressive advocacy. Gimme a break, we're not that stupid and that's really rich coming from the guy who voted for the first billion dollar candidate.
  • Aug 15, 2013, 09:52 AM
    excon
    Hello again, tom:

    If you want MY support at ending EVEN that behemoth, then call for a repeal of Citizens United..

    At LEAST the leaders of the union are elected. IF their members didn't like who the union supported, the could VOTE that leadership out, and put in their own. The people who work for corporations have NO vote in how their corporation spends the money THEY contribute and/or make for their employer.

    Do you really want to leave our elections to the MONEYED class?? You CAN'T believe they have YOUR interests at heart... Can you?

    excon
  • Aug 15, 2013, 09:53 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, tom:

    If you want MY support at ending EVEN that behemoth, then call for a repeal of Citizens United..

    At LEAST the leaders of the union are elected. IF their members didn't like who the union supported, the could VOTE that leadership out, and put in their own. The people who work for corporations have NO vote in how their corporation spends the money THEY contribute and/or make for their employer.

    Do you really want to leave our elections to the MONEYED class??? You CAN'T believe they have YOUR interests at heart... Can you??

    excon

    I wonder how you could think the rank and file "vote " for their leadership when there is no secret ballot in the union movement. The Iranians hold more honest elections.
  • Aug 15, 2013, 09:55 AM
    tomder55
    You talk about the moneyed class when you have the public unions contributing to politicians who make laws that set their salaries ? Talk about a conflict of interest !
  • Aug 15, 2013, 09:56 AM
    smoothy
    Um Ex... are you aware voting for the union leadership is exactly like "Elections" in the old Soviet Union. The only people that even get a shot at an office are a union insider...

    They first worry about their friends in their favorite offices in their local... and everyone else gets the crumbs of what's left.

    And we are talking large well known unions... that everyone has heard of.
  • Aug 15, 2013, 10:03 AM
    excon
    Hello again, righty's:

    Read my Lips.. If you want ME to throw unions under the bus, and I WILL, then throw Citizens United under the bus..

    But, you can stop telling me how bad unions are.

    excon
  • Aug 15, 2013, 10:06 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, righty's:

    Read my Lips.. If you want ME to throw unions under the bus, and I WILL, then throw Citizens United under the bus..

    But, you can stop telling me how bad unions are.

    excon

    As long as Tal expects me to genuflect to the union gods I will call them the cancer that they are.
  • Aug 15, 2013, 10:24 AM
    tomder55
    I'd say Citizens United leveled the playing field especially in regards to public unions ,who "negotiate " their salaries with the same pols they bribe with campaign contributions... salaries that are paid for with tax dollars .
  • Aug 16, 2013, 06:19 AM
    excon
    Hello again:

    It seems to me that a conservative would be supportive of conserving one of our oldest institutions, the Post Office. But, they don't. They actually HATE it. I have a feeling, though, that they'd LOVE it, if it weren't unionized..

    Would I be close?

    excon
  • Aug 16, 2013, 06:24 AM
    smoothy
    THe Post office is an exaple of PC run amuk.

    Try and get a job there if you aren't a War Vet, a minority or a woman...

    A Black woman Vet with an IQ of 70 would get the job before Albert Einstien would because of perferential points given for each of those three categories.

    It's a prime example of why Afirmative action is actually reverse racism.
  • Aug 16, 2013, 06:50 AM
    talaniman
    Yeah why should a dumb black woman who has served her country have a job at the post office when all those smart white guys need a job?

    Is that really your position?
  • Aug 16, 2013, 06:52 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again:

    It seems to me that a conservative would be supportive of conserving one of our oldest institutions, the Post Office. But, they don't. They actually HATE it. I have a feeling, though, that they'd LOVE it, if it weren't unionized..

    Would I be close?

    excon

    The Postal Service can't compete in it's primary function. Why would we keep it going except to give more people government jobs ? It would be very simple for them to compete if they ever actually operated as a real business. Here's one example . It costs me the same postage to mail a letter to my neighbor as it does to send one cross country to you. Why ? Private carrier services figured out a long time ago to zone rates.
    The truth is that their service is rapidly becoming a dinosaur. With e-mail and on-line payments ,most of the mail I receive is junk mailers that are quicky discarded unread. So the question remains . So we need it ? A service like the Post Office is clearly constitutional and made sense in the horse and buggy days . It is much harder to justify it's continued existence.

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