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-   -   The fiscal cliff (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=720505)

  • Dec 28, 2012, 11:24 AM
    talaniman
    Well what do you expect the dems to do when you guys act so crazy? The OMB thinks your ideas are crazy too! They have said so. Why don't you guys admit our ideas are workig despite the noise and obstructions from the right?

    You guys have CREATED one crisis after another.
  • Dec 28, 2012, 11:41 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    You guys have CREATED one crisis after another.

    Still insisting on living in 1984, eh?
  • Dec 28, 2012, 11:53 AM
    tomder55
    Still working in that spirit of compromise.

    If it makes you happy ,I don't blame the President . He should've stayed in Hawaii . He did his job .He proposed a budget. The House passed a budget . The deadlock is the fault of the do nothing Senate.

    Why don't you admit how fond you are of the Bush tax cuts ?
  • Dec 28, 2012, 12:23 PM
    talaniman
    My fondness isn't the problem, it's the rich guys fondness for MO" MONEY on top of what they have that breaks the capitalist business model and chokes circulation of a dollar. These are having global consequences that even rich guys are starting to feel.

    Don't worry,wall street will holler soon, louder than you guys do and about a different issue than you are hollering about.

    PS, nobody liked the budget you guys proposed, and that's why Romney lost. Like I said you guys say NO, but you can't stand when NO is said to you, like in the last election. If Obama can't have a mandate and he won ,then what logic gives you one? Stop patting yourselves on the back, those were the lousiest budget bills from the house in HISTORY.No amount of spin changes that.
  • Dec 28, 2012, 01:06 PM
    speechlesstx
    At least they did something as opposed to NOTHING. For over 3 years - NOTHING.
  • Dec 28, 2012, 01:19 PM
    talaniman
    If that's what you want to call your right wing antics. Go ahead.
  • Dec 28, 2012, 01:34 PM
    excon
    Hello again:

    Quote:

    The deadlock is the fault of the do nothing Senate.
    That may or may NOT be true... But, the public thinks it's the Republicans fault. And, it's going to cost 'em.

    I don't know why this is such a surprise. The polls reveal it. Oh, that's right. Polls that say ANYTHING negative about Republicans are NOT to be believed.

    Excon
  • Dec 28, 2012, 02:28 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again:

    That may or may NOT be true... But, the public thinks it's the Republicans fault. And, it's gonna cost 'em.

    I dunno why this is such a surprise. The polls reveal it. Oh, that's right. Polls that say ANYTHING negative about Republicans are NOT to be believed.

    excon

    Of course the polls reveal it, there is no adversarial media any longer, but for Fox they're Democrat lapdogs.
  • Dec 29, 2012, 12:44 AM
    excon
    Hello again, Steve:

    So, the ONLY one who's telling the truth is FOX News, huh?

    Bwa, ha ha ha ha ha... Bwa he he he heeeeee.. Bwa ho hoho ho ho ho...

    excon
  • Dec 29, 2012, 03:58 AM
    paraclete
    Fox must offer balanced reporting both sides complain about them
  • Dec 29, 2012, 07:25 AM
    excon
    Hello again, clete:

    I don't know... It looks like Steve thinks they're a paragon of virtue.

    excon
  • Dec 29, 2012, 09:09 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, Steve:

    So, the ONLY one who's telling the truth is FOX News, huh?

    Bwa, ha ha ha ha ha... Bwa he he he heeeeee.. Bwa ho hoho ho ho ho........

    excon

    Not at all what I said. Which part of the lamestream media beyond Jake Tapper has actually held Obama and the Dems accountable?
  • Dec 29, 2012, 09:16 AM
    excon
    Hello again, Steve:

    Quote:

    Which part of the lamestream media beyond Jake Tapper has actually held Obama and the Dems accountable?
    Glenn Greenwald does. He appears on "lamestream media" regularly. Others do too. Maybe if you turned the dial OFF Fox News once in a while, you'd KNOW that.

    Excon
  • Dec 29, 2012, 09:22 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, Steve:

    Glenn Greenwald does. He appears on "lamestream media" regularly. Others do too. Maybe if you turned the dial OFF Fox News once in a while, you'd KNOW that.

    excon

    So you had to go to a British paper to find someone, eh?

    Of course you know the vast majority of the sources I cite are anyone but Fox so you can dispense with the straw man.
  • Dec 29, 2012, 09:34 AM
    excon
    Hello again, Steve:

    Couple things... You asked about lamestream media, and I showed one amongst many. I read him regularly. He's American and used to write for Salon. Maybe they're paying him more money. I don't know and I don't care.. He WRITES from the same office CRITICIZING the president and the Democrats. Kind of like I do.. You've heard of the interweb, haven't you?

    excon
  • Dec 29, 2012, 09:42 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, Steve:

    Couple things... You asked about lamestream media, and I showed one amongst many. I read him regularly. He's American and used to write for Salon. Maybe they're paying him more money. I dunno and I don't care.. He WRITES from the same office CRITICIZING the president and the Democrats. Kinda like I do.. You've heard of the interweb, haven't you?

    excon

    And how many average Americans get their news via The Guardian and not ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, CNN, HNN, NY Times, etc. I think he and Fox are way outnumbered.
  • Dec 29, 2012, 09:44 AM
    talaniman
    The whole idea of a lamestream media is a straw man argument that the right pushes to decry those they disagree with. Its an excuse not to believe there are other sides of the story. I think conservatives are greatly outnumbered and the farther right the less the numbers.
  • Dec 29, 2012, 12:35 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    The whole idea of a lamestream media is a straw man argument that the right pushes to decry those they disagree with. Its an excuse not to believe there are other sides of the story. I think conservatives are greatly outnumbered and the farther right the less the numbers.

    Speaking of staw men...

    I look at facts and they are on my side.
  • Dec 29, 2012, 01:36 PM
    paraclete
    I think I'm falling
  • Dec 30, 2012, 07:01 PM
    earl237
    Is there anything that Obama can do without congress if they can't reach a deal? There should be some provision for the president to act alone in an emergency when congress is being totally unreasonable.
  • Dec 30, 2012, 07:34 PM
    tomder55
    Yeah dictators have such power
  • Dec 30, 2012, 07:50 PM
    paraclete
    Surely he has the power to sack the congress
  • Dec 30, 2012, 08:10 PM
    talaniman
    I guess Obama isn't the dictator the right says he is. Why am I not surprised they are wrong again?
  • Dec 30, 2012, 09:18 PM
    paraclete
    He is only a dictator because they couldn't stop him doing something they didn't want him to do, guess what? It is about to happen again, proving that Congress is only as strong as it's weakest link
  • Dec 31, 2012, 04:17 AM
    tomder55
    Wouldn't surprise me at all if Emperor Zero pulls an EO out of his hat. Then the hypocrites on the left that abhor such Executive power grabs will applaud his bold action .
  • Dec 31, 2012, 07:25 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    surely he has the power to sack the congress

    No, Congress has the power to sack him.
  • Dec 31, 2012, 08:32 AM
    earl237
    CNN said today that congress is getting a big pay raise when regular people could have their taxes go up, lose unemployment benefits and have their tax refunds delayed, this makes me sick. They said Obama has emergency powers to extend benefits and delay tax hikes, so the markets aren't too worried yet, at least for now.
  • Dec 31, 2012, 08:38 AM
    excon
    Hello again, earl:

    He does, and you can see from toms response, how the Republicans are going to hate it if he does. I don't know WHY they hate the unemployed so. Oh, yeah... They're part of the 47%.

    excon
  • Dec 31, 2012, 08:52 AM
    speechlesstx
    The raise was courtesy of yet another executive order from the guy who in 2007 thought we'd "paid a heavy price for having a president whose priority is expanding his own power." I have no comment on unemployment benefits, you've already made up an opinion for me.
  • Dec 31, 2012, 09:25 AM
    talaniman
    He rescinded his other executive order to freeze pay, and hiring.
  • Dec 31, 2012, 09:53 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    He rescinded his other executive order to freeze pay, and hiring.

    What part of executive order do you not get?
  • Dec 31, 2012, 10:10 AM
    talaniman
    What part of congress has options to recind an executive order do you not get?

    Executive order - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Quote:

    The loss of the legislative veto has caused Congress to look for alternative measures to override executive orders such as refusing to approve funding necessary to carry out certain policy measures contained with the order or to legitimize policy mechanisms. In the former, the president retains the power to veto such a decision; however, the Congress may override a veto with a two-thirds majority to end an executive order. It has been argued that a Congressional override of an executive order is a nearly impossible event due to the supermajority vote required and the fact that such a vote leaves individual lawmakers very vulnerable to political criticism.[10]
    Is it the presidents fault congress has no pratical way of delivering a supermajority vote?
  • Dec 31, 2012, 10:27 AM
    speechlesstx
    In other words, you're OK with this imperial presidency.

    By the way, what do you get for $359,796,008,919.49?
  • Dec 31, 2012, 11:08 AM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    QUOTE by speechlesstx;
    In other words, you're OK with this imperial presidency.
    Not really but better than the last, it's the do nothing congress I have a real problem with, but I have no control over who the righties elect.



    Quote:

    By the way, what do you get for $359,796,008,919.49?
    I may regret this but... WHAT?
  • Dec 31, 2012, 12:29 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Not really but better than the last, its the do nothing congress I have a real problem with, but I have no control over who the righties elect.





    I may regret this but................................WHAT?

    Nothing. That's what it will take to service the federal debt this coming year.
  • Dec 31, 2012, 02:14 PM
    paraclete
    Well speech someone gets that money, it might be individual investors, it might be banks, it might even be China, everyone gets a little
  • Dec 31, 2012, 08:21 PM
    earl237
    Looks like a deal has been reached, but taxes will only go up on people earning more than 450k a year instead of the 250k that democrats wanted. Republicans still managed to protect the super rich. Notice how the markets soared earlier in the day long before the deal was reached, I wonder if there was some insider trading going on.
  • Jan 1, 2013, 04:00 AM
    tomder55
    $450,000 is super rich ? The Repubics caved . The budget cut issue has had the can kicked down the road for 2 months . Now there is no reason for the Dems to negotiate on that issue since the Repubics already surrendered their only leverage. In 2 months time we will reach a new "fiscal cliff" with the combination of sequestration ;and a debt ceiling happening at the same time .And the Dems will be able to dust off their playbook and blame the Repubics for the imminent plunge.

    Good job McConnell ! You got out maneuvered by Joe Biden!! Lolololol!!


    Edit ; the CBO says the new deal raises taxes by $620 billion and somehow has some budget cuts to the tune of $15 billion baseline spending . That's a 41:1 ratio .Good job McConnell !

    Edit ;the 8 no votes are 3 Dems (Bennett, Cardin, Harkin); 5 Republicans (Grassley, Lee, Paul, Rubio, Shelby). The rest of the Repubics are sell outs.

    Edit... still waiting on the Dems to praise the "Bush tax cuts " .Since they fought so hard to preserve them for most of the people ,they should at least acknowledge that they were big fans of the cuts all along.
  • Jan 1, 2013, 04:22 AM
    paraclete
    It's OK Tom the people who benefit most are paying more tax, very progressive and they will get to the budget cuts, but in the meantime there will be some pain on both sides of the camp, even though they got something done they have still driven off the cliff.

    You can't expect these fellows with half a brain you elect over there to think of more than one thing at a time, all this brain exercise is too much for them after all you can train monkeys to say no
  • Jan 1, 2013, 04:49 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    and they will get to the budget cuts,
    No they won't ;not even close. They calculate with baseline budgeting which means that even when they claim cuts in spending ;it is actually an increase .

    In Fiscal Year 2011, the federal government collected $2.303 trillion in tax revenue.
    Interest on the debt that year totaled $454.4 billion

    That means that around 19.7 percent of the budget is eaten up by debt interest. The US is not yet bankrupt, But we are getting there. It would be like earning 50k a year before taxes and paying some 15k in credit card interest alone.

    Mandatory spending totaled $2,025 billion.Mandatory spending plus debt interest totaled $2.479 trillion… exceeding total revenue by $176.4 billion.

    Suppose the government spending was frozen to 2012 levels, we are still spending about 108 percent of the current budget based on mandatory spending alone. That's a deficit of 8 percent.
    For Fiscal Year 2012 that shortfall increased 43% to $251.8 billion.
    That's a deficit of close to 12 percent. Unsustainable.
    That's BEFORE the discretionary spending is considered .

    They could cut the entire Federal Government's discretionary budget– no more military, SEC, FBI, EPA, TSA, DHS, IRS, etc.– and they would still be in the hole by a quarter of a trillion dollars.

    And that's just the way things are now! SS and other entitlements are predicted to expand at twice the rate of inflation.

    The young people are screwed . We are going to get crushed by either entitlements or debt. Or both.

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