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That's the problem with counting on government . For my part ;one of my favorite charities to donate to is 'Habitat for Humanity ' . They are on the ground making a real difference . Not like Clintoon and his posturing .Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Haiti isn't part of the USA or one of its terrirories, they are responsible for their own personal hell thanks to institutionalized corruption... They speak French... that makes it Frances problem.
Besides... if they are so poor why do they keep breeeding so fast.
Haha, thanks for the laugh, I love your stuff.Quote:
They speak French... that makes it Frances problem.
I don't have a version of events, that's why we need to investigate. I Just know the admin is lying to the American people.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Population control is the luxuzy of the rich, the point I was making was help the people in your own region before interferring elsewhereQuote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Haiti is the same as anythig to do with Africa... anything you do is a monumental waste of time and money and it only makes a handful of people much richer there..Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
My younger son was in Haiti a year ago for a church mission project to help rebuild a church and school. His stories and photos about the living conditions, animals freely roaming the streets, the dirt and poverty, the lack of ambition to clean up all the debris... mind-boggling.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
It is amazing you think people who are depressed and without resources can help themselves. They need to be freed from poverty by restoration of their inferstructure and economy. The rich will get rich no matter what you do, that's no excuse not to help at the most basic level.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Do you think we stood back and applied the same attitude when the tsumani hit Indonesia. I'm sure we were aware there would be profiteers and momumental stuffups but we spent a billion dollars and we didn't have a government that couldn't get it together and we didn't say it was someoneelse's problem because they don't speak english
Restoration of WHAT infrastructure and WHAT economy? THat place has been a disaster since it was a French Colony and its only got worse afterwards...Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
BILLIONS have been wasted there... Corruption is part of their culture... its like its part of their DNA... it always ends the same way... nothing ever changes... they actually LIKE it to be that way.
That says a lot doesn't it.People on Staten Island and around this region are not waiting for someone else to do it for them. Within hours debris in most homes people could get to was cleaned out and left in a pile by the curb. When sanitation trucks come ;the people are helping them load the trucks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
You don't get, I know you don't. People with money and resources have a different attitude, and they even have insurance, they know they have to get things together to get back to normality. Haiti was hit by a earthquake which kicked a nation in the guts that was already on its knees. So what does normality look for them? These people didn't have anything to begin with so where do you start? You do what they did and set up temporary shelters. What they don't need is a neighbour standing back and saying well hard luck, call us when you get back on your feet
I call your BS . We have pumped tremendous resources into the country as a nation both publicly and privately. A nation needs real leaders at the top... that is what they have always lacked . Doesn't do them any good that their leaders line their pocket with the aid .
I'm sure they would he happy to take your money. Lets see if you can actually get any different results...Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
You know there is an old saying... don't bite the hand that feeds you. This is one of those places that gets exactly what it deserves... they keep putting the most corrupt people possible into office. But then the entire place is either positively lazy or positively corrupt. There isn't much middle ground.
Not unlike your own country it takes corruption to get into office and hold it. In such a place if you don't have money you don't go anywhere and you don't get anything done, what you see as lazy is simply lack of means, I know they could put up mud huts but the rain would wash them away, concrete costs money. In such circumstances would you settle for a tent, I'll bet you would. Can you grow a crop without seed, can you take your crop to market without transport. You surely need a dose of reality. How long did it take your own slaves to find a place in society, it had to be done at the point of a gun. How does a nation of slaves lift itself out of poverty. I know what it is like to start with nothing even in a country where opportunity exists, what do you think it is like where there is no opportunity?Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
You obviously don't get accurate information from your news sources pertaining to Haiti...Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
This is what needs done there... being nice to them and throwing money at them never works... maybe we can try this.
It's the New Haiti relief slogan
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...67650224_n.jpg
What amazed my son when he was there last year was that no one lifted a finger to clean anything. There would be a heap of debris in the street and everyone just drove around it. He could see people sitting slumped on blocks of concrete that used to be part of a building. Not that they are lazy, but they are totally leaderless and lacking in incentive. "Why bother? What will it get me?" After Sandy, people were shell-shocked but already searching for belongings and moving debris and groups came in to clear roads, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Does this make the people of Louisiana who speak French, a problem for France?
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
What does this mean?
There aren't many of them... and what few there are live in Alligator infested swamps.Quote:
Originally Posted by TUT317
What does it mean?. if you can't feed the kids you have now... stop having kids.
Something to remember...
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...01182251_n.jpg
And Another...
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...30796055_n.jpg
THis explains what is Wrong with Haiti and 99% of the third world... and its NOT a new concept.
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...41362646_n.jpg
Yes it is a minority language, but apparently French is also a minority language in HaitiQuote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Perhaps you can come up with some posters to that effect as well.
How much of your vast wealth have you sent to the Haitian money pit? And what is it with Liberals that think just because someone is dark skinned they are MORE entitled to aid than someone light skinned.Quote:
Originally Posted by TUT317
More people in Haiti speak french as a primary language than do in the entire USA.
If you can show me the relevance of your first question to the discussion then I will give you an answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Secondly, I am not a Liberal.
I assume by the above sentence you are saying two thingsQuote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
(a) French is the dominant language of Haiti
(b) French is a minority language in the U.S.A.
I agree with (b), but disagree with (a). A Google search reveals that only 10 to 20 percent of the population speak French. The dominant language is Creole. Apparently Creole is a combination of a number of languages including French.
Tut
What does what language they speak have to do with it or the colour of their skin, they are your neighbours, thus your responsibility and our government contributed $10M in aidQuote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
I don't know.. when the tsunami hit the Indian ocean I contributed . When the tsunami hit Japan I contributed. When the earthquake hit Haiti I contributed.. and I regularly contribute to 'Habitat for Humanity ' and other groups like 'Red Cross' ,'Salvation Army','Save the Children ' . American private donations to Haiti were more that $ 650 million last time I checked and the American government has done plenty too.
Here is the USAID website:
USAID/HAITI : Issues : Earthquake
The issue is not money going into the country .It is in fact poor governance that keeps the Haitians in abject poverty . Look ;if they had a government that didn't have it's corrupt head up it's a$$ ;American corporations would flock there ,create jobs by the thousands... Geeze ;it's in a region that is one of the most desirable locations on the planet to vacation . A mental midget could make the country prosper .
Well Tom why don't you send some of your mental midgets over there, you must have plenty to spare in the aftermath of the GFC, you see you exported your industries to China, just as well you did because if you had exported them to Haiti you would have lost them in the Earthquake. You have a strange idea that you have to rid a country of corruption before you can deal with it, why? You haven't rid your own country of corruption. The way you do business would fit right in. If you cause the people to prosper they will eventually deal with the corruption among their own people. Isn't it better to lift your near neighbours out of poverty than to lift communists out of povertyQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I'm pleased you gave so much to help those people, has the Congress released the funds yet or is this aid on the never, never plan?
If only I were younger...Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
What does that have to do with anything
Clete ,it's obvious . The Dominican Republic shares the same island and isn't close to the abject poverty of Haiti. And as much as you mock Smoothy ;Haiti's historic relations with France has a lot to do with it's situation today.
And I am aware that deals with dictator devils can be made. The difference on the Island of Hispaniola is that Duvalier sold out his people whereas Trujillo of the Dominican Republic at least encouraged economic development .
All history Tom and just an excuse. The earthquake was a game changer and an opportunity lost
History is a valuable lesson . Short of occupation and regime change ,what exactly should we have done ?
It cracks me up . The biggest critique of our nation in this hemisphere is our interference in other nations. Yet when there is problems the chorus is always the same... 'why isn't America doing something ? '... even in cases like this where our efforts have been massive. Let's see if Americans donate as much to the NY/NJ areas rebuilding as we have for Haiti or the tsunamis in Japan and the Indian Ocean. This morning there are many people in this area living in ad hoc tent cities... and temps dipped below freezing at night.
Tom there is a difference between interferrence and aid or help, you seem to think that every time you help someone you have the right to dictate politically to them. There are people living in tent cities in the US and there are 14 million unoccupied homes, is there a mental block over there? There is a giant disconnect in your society, an inability to connect the dots, there is no need for people to live in tent cities in the US for any length of time but people have been living that way in Haiti for years. One day you will get your head out of your arse. Your country has the ability to rebuild NYNJ. Haiti does not have the ability to rebuild, Japan has the ability to rebuild, Haiti does not have the ability to rebuild, what part of that do you not understand? I seen to remember someone telling me you could fish and cut bait, well what you are telling me now is you cant. Welcome to realityQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Giving massive aid to Haiti has been an exercise in throwing money away. It does not get to the intended recipient . How is it possible for that reality to change if the terms can't be "dictated "? How do you convince a corrupt regime to give the massive aid to the people ? It's you who need to get your head our of your arse . We could've multiplied our aid X10 and the results would not have been any different.
Tom you always have barriers to reality, when we gave $1 billion to Indonesia at the time of the Tsumani we made it plain, we would supervise how it was spent, no local officials involved in their customary dealing. They didn't like it but that's the way they got the aid. It isn't about quantity, it is about quality, getting bang for your buck. You want to be part of Asia but you understand nothing about it and as a result they will take you to the cleanersQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Tell that to the Indonesians who drank water desalinated on one of our imperial nuclear Super Carriers and who received immediate aid from planes and copters that took off from the deck ;and received immediate medical aid from the staff of doctor on board the fleet. While that was happening the UN was having cocktail party discussions on how they should proceed with a relief plan. BTW.. 3 of our carriers are scheduled for retirement with no replacement.
That is exactly 'clete's point -- be in control of aid and aid funds and don't just hand it off to the government of the stricken country.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
In Indonesia we have the 3rd largest democratic nation on the planet. They invited us in on their terms . Haiti invites us in ,but they will never allow us to do what is necessary for them to sustain an economy necessary to eradicate the abject poverty of the nation. I'm sure your son would tell you that it is impossible to get the cooperation .So what is the choice ? If we send aid it goes down the pit. If we don't we are the cruel neighbor that doesn't do a thing to help .
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