Ask Me Help Desk - The choice in Wisconsin

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

You got something against the working poor? Try raising a family off a McDonald's and Walmart salary, with two kids. They work as hard as you do I'm sure.

I got nothing against the working poor... I'm related to a lot of them... I grew up part of the working poor. Most of my relatives are still part of the working poor. I DO have something against ANYONE that feels they are entitled to what's in my wallet that I earned, And I don't come close to Obamas definition of rich... I might be rich by the standards of some backwater towns... but I don't live in one... and I don't even meet the median income in the area I live now.

And incidentally I got where I am through a hell of a lot of hard work and take exception to those who didn't that think they are entitled to a share of what I make. They ALL had the same opportunities I had (which was essentually no help what-so-ever because I was too not a minority)... most had MORE opportunities, it's their fault they didn't take them.

And yes I have had a lot of setbacks along the way I wasn't recompensed for when I made them... so why are they entitled to my earnings when I made the right choices then.

Familiar with the old saying... you reap what you sow? You aren't entitled to more than you put an effort into making.

That's the point though smoothy my friend, many of us work darn hard at honest work, and have to take what we can get. But every time we look around, somebody is telling us that because THEY screwed up, we have to pay. I feel the same as you do, but we seem to resent different people. I hate politician who tell me what my labor is worth while they keep making' money off my labor. I hate rich fat cats who have the money to give a politician for what he wants and all I can do is vote.

Hell there ain't even no negotiating about it if they have there way.

Hello again,

Hmmm... Looks to me like the Democrats have won. Turns out, their filibuster worked.

But, worse than that. Walker awakened a sleeping giant. Bummer for you wingers. As we've discussed on this thread, if Walker had been successful, he would have been the NEW Reagan. He would have been the 2016 presidential nominee. But, he's toast, isn't he? His ratings have PLUMMETED and are cratering daily. Poor fellow. Poor party. Looks like he went just a tad too far.

excon

Filibuster my butt . It's an irresponsible negligence of sworn duty .

I see no movement besides Walker's emails offering concessions .The Dems have done their Union masters bidding. What did I miss ?

The Dems are still AWOL out of state. If anything there is growing pressure on the Dems by the public to get back to work.

Walker has misplayed this slightly . He should decouple the Union issues from the budget and get a vote in the Senate with the existing quarum . You watch how fast the Dems would come running back if he did that .

Their demand that negotiations take place in Illinois is absurd. Let's see which movement gets bigger traction ;the movement to recall Walker(orchestrated shamelessly from the White House ) ,or the one to recall the Dems of the Senate .

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

Filibuster my butt . It's an irresponsible negligence of sworn duty .

Hello again, tom:

SWORN duty, my butt. Show me what they SWORE to. Show me where they SWORE they wouldn't travel. Show me where they SWORE to sit in their seats. Show me where they SWORE to punch a time clock.

Look. You don't LIKE it. You don't like it because it WORKED. Using Roberts Rules of Order, the Wisconsin Senate made a RULE that a quorum needs to be present before a vote can be taken. If a quorum ISN'T present, a vote is BLOCKED. Those are the rules. I didn't make 'em up.

The United States Senate, using Roberts Rules of Order, has a rule that says if 60 Senators don't agree, a vote is BLOCKED. Those are the rules. I didn't make 'em up. You liked it when YOUR side was the BLOCKER, but it pisses you off when the other side does it.

The real problem here, is that your side ACTUALLY believes its righteous BS, that the Democrats are, how did you put it, "irresponsible and negligent". But, the truth is you got hornswaggeled by the same rules you used to hornswaggle the Democrats.

I say again, the duty of a legislator is to represent his constituency, and THESE Democrats did that EXTREMELY WELL. THAT is their job, and I don't care if they swore to it or not.

excon

And the Governor has lost nothing by giving a little round the unimportant things . He satsifies some of those endless polls conducted by pro-union organizations that say Walker should do some negotiations. He is still holding firm on the essential points of the Dems action ; increased pension and insurance contributions, and ending state collection of union dues.

The Unions know that they could never hold their rank and file if their dues were not confiscated from their paychecks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

He satsifies some of those endless polls conducted by pro-union organizations that say Walker should do some negotiations.

Hello again, tom:

Rasmussen is pro union?? Dude! Here goes the spin.

excon

Its not over yet! But Walker is backing away from his No Negotiating rule. Hope it spreads to other states with these crazy corporate shills that are now governors.

Hey EX, see what they are trying to do in Michigan? Tell me this ain't a step back to the good old days where the rich master ordered the poor slaves around!

Recall 'em all, once and for all.

Lol Michigan is a basket case with it's misrule by the Dems for years . If I was you I would not hold up either Michigan or Detroit as a liberal success story.

Looks like the fleebaggers should have stuck around to do their jobs. They removed the financial aspects and passed the bill without the AWOL Dems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

passed the bill

Hello again, Steve:

Passed? PASSED?? For a fellow who said the Dems rammed through the health care plan, you don't recognize RAMMED.

excon

Amazing that they passed it as NOT a fiscal item---but claimed it HAD to go through because of the "broke" budget.

This isn't over yet.

Funny how the left gets upset when the very same tactics they use over and over are used against them when they are in dereliction of duty.

They should not pay the democrats who have refused to show up for work. Just like every other working stiff in the country. You don't show up, then you don't get paid. See how quick the Dem's run back to Madison then.

Don't gloat to fast, its far from over. Matter of fact, its just getting started.

And they shouldn't pay the governor who SWEARS he is doing all of this for BUDGET reasons, but then pushes a bill through as "non-fiscal" so they can get the vote they WANT.

Those republicans that actually VOTED on it shouldn't be paid either. While they followed the LETTER of the law, they certainly didn't follow the SPIRIT of the law.

This country is seriously starting to make me sick. Why is it always "you damned democrats" and "you stupid republicans"? Why do we have parties that do nothing but block one another constantly, don't really do what their constituents want because it would break party lines, and a budget that has never been met? How about we stop PAYING politicians and giving them benefits until the budget is balanced. Think that would work?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synnen

Amazing that they passed it as NOT a fiscal item---but claimed it HAD to go through because of the "broke" budget.

This isn't over yet.

No it isn't... the White House ,butting in where it doesn't belong , is orchestrating recall petitions.

Just some political jiu jitsu .Let's say the Dems are now lurred back to Madison because they think this issue is finished except for court fights.. Then there is a quorum for a budget vote (the doors get locked by executive order ),and the measure gets reintroduced into the budget vote.
The Dems. Still lose because there is a clear majority in the Senate to pass the measure .

By the way... just checked Wi. Law. Yes Walker can be recalled... but not until he's served at least one year of his term. Petitions cannot begin until November. These recall petitions are obviously targeting Senators.

They lose THIS battle, but the WAR is hardly over.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

Funny how the left gets upset when the very same tactics they use over and over are used against them when they are in dereliction of duty.

Hello again, smoothy:

Couple things... I'm a RULES guy. I LIKE rules. If you KNOW the rules, you KNOW what you can DO. I KNOW the rules WELL. I USE the rules, and I use 'em HARD. I do it with NO shame or embarrassment. In fact, MOST people don't know the rules, and that's why I make mincemeat out of them.. You should be familiar with that.

Politics is a contact sport. Being a rules guy, I actually LOVE it when the rules are used against me. I don't get upset when that happens - I get even. But, one can't MAKE UP the rules, because I'll catch 'em. You should be familiar with that.

Speaking of RULES and DUTY (tom calls it their SWORN duty), rules are published. If you use the Google, if these "duties" are there to be found. You COULD find 'em and post a link... But, they're NOT there, are they?? You're just flapping your gums... In fact, those Democrats violated NO rules and did their duty to their constituents.

excon

This was the section of the law that the Senate used to issue arrest warrants on the truant Senators.

946.12 Misconduct in public office. Any public officer or public employee who does any of the following is guilty of a Class I felony:

946.12(1)
(1) Intentionally fails or refuses to perform a known mandatory, nondiscretionary, ministerial duty of the officer's or employee's office or employment within the time or in the manner required by law; or

946.12(3)
(3) Whether by act of commission or omission, in the officer's or employee's capacity as such officer or employee exercises a discretionary power in a manner inconsistent with the duties of the officer's or employee's office or employment or the rights of others and with intent to obtain a dishonest advantage for the officer or employee or another; or

http://law.justia.com/codes/wisconsi...46/946.12.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

This was the section of the law that the Senate used to issue arrest warrants on the truant Senators.

946.12 Misconduct in public office. Any public officer or public employee who does any of the following is guilty of a Class I felony:

946.12(1)
(1) Intentionally fails or refuses to perform a known mandatory, nondiscretionary, ministerial duty of the officer’s or employee’s office or employment within the time or in the manner required by law;

Hello again, tom:

I got it. If there ARE "known mandatory... DUTIES, or TIME frames", required of state senators, they're PUBLISHED. SHOW ME!!

Until you do, it's ALL MADE UP.

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Passed? PASSED??? For a fellow who said the Dems rammed through the health care plan, you don't recognize RAMMED.

As I recall, Republicans in congress stuck around and did their jobs during the 'debate' on Obamacare, they didn't cut and run like these fleebaggers did.

Clearly it is a debatable issue. The Attorney General would have to prove obstruction, and hope that the courts are amenable.

Quote:

ABC News.com,
Meanwhile, polls have shown a public divided on how to rein in the state budget, but hungry for compromise. The latest poll from Wisconsin conducted for Wisconsin Policy Research Institute, a conservative think tank, by University of Wisconsin Professor Ken Goldstein and released over the weekend found just 33 percent wanted Gov. Walker to "stand strong for the plan he has proposed no matter how long the protests go on" versus a whopping 65 percent who want to see the governor "negotiate with Democrats and public employees' unions in order to find a compromise solution."

Seems it ain't all about just the unions, or the White House, But the Wisconsin public at large who are not happy with the way things are working out with this "elected" government. Tom, you started this with a reference to being broke in Wisconsin, well explain how you take all the surplus, turn it into a deficit with tax cuts to the rich, blame it on the unions, and destroy the middle class? Wait we have seen this before haven't we? Standard right wing power grab, and its always about the money going to "corporate friends", that we in the middle class pay for.

I am not against the rich, but in a capitalistic society, it don't work when the money isn't circulated to everyone, the ones who make you rich, and buy what your selling. Hoarding it never works. When people take to the streets, you better pay attention, President, Governor, or CEO.

Yawn... I rarely cite polls because they can be manipulated simply by how they are worded .

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

Clearly it is a debatable issue. The Attorney General would have to prove obstruction, and hope that the courts are amenable.

Hello again, tom:

If there are NO job performance requirements of state senators, then it's NOT debatable at all. It's made up. You just don't like their tactics. Steve neither. Bummer for you.

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

yawn... I rarely cite polls because they can be manipulated simply by how they are worded .

Thousands of people in the streets in all the major cities is not a poll either, but it paints a picture doesn't it?

So why do REPUBS like to dictate, and NOT TALK?

Talan;
Obligations to unionized public service workers are destroying state budgets around the country .Why isn't the left railing against Andrew Cuomo who has also taken a hard line against the unions ? I think the Dems know the right path to take ;but are too afraid to lose union support.

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

Couple things.... I'm a RULES guy. I LIKE rules. If you KNOW the rules, you KNOW what you can DO. I KNOW the rules WELL. I USE the rules, and I use 'em HARD. I do it with NO shame or embarrassment. In fact, MOST people don't know the rules, and that's why I make mincemeat out of them.. You should be familiar with that.

Politics is a contact sport. Being a rules guy, I actually LOVE it when the rules are used against me. I don't get upset when that happens - I get even. But, one can't MAKE UP the rules, because I'll catch 'em. You should be familiar with that.

Speaking of RULES and DUTY (tom calls it their SWORN duty), rules are published. If you use the google, if these "duties" are there to be found. You COULD find 'em and post a link.... But, they're NOT there, are they??? You're just flapping your gums... In fact, those Democrats violated NO rules and did their duty to their constituents.

excon

Gee... actually showing up for work is optional if you are elected?

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, tom:

If there are NO job performance requirements of state senators, then it's NOT debatable at all. It's made up. You just don't like their tactics. Steve neither. Bummer for you.

excon

Actually showing up is clearly a requirement. Even for politicians.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

As I recall, Republicans in congress stuck around and did their jobs during the 'debate' on Obamacare, they didn't cut and run like these fleebaggers did.

Nice intentional misspelling :)

Andrew takes a hard line, but he is talking. And you can't blame unions for the state budgets, because they are more than willing, and have done what it takes to help the state budgets, even after the New Republican governors have created the shortfalls in the budget with tax cuts. For the rich. Where in history has that created jobs in AMERICA?

Obviously few know how pensions, and job security, and workplace rules, and health insurance, work in a union. We pay for those things, and go without raises to afford them. When these things bust a budget (according to the repubs), its because somebody had already screwed up the money, and didn't do what they said they would, OR doesn't want to.

Come on, even you can see where this is all going, corporate privatization of all the jobs, with low paid workers, and big profits. Like in the rest of the world. Like Walmart, and McDonald's, or Nike. Like the health insurance companies, and the banks. When you leave decisions and policies to a banker, it always about his money. He thinks its all his money to make. That's the business model isn't it?

That's why you need a union, because the boss can work the crap out of you, to get rich, and give you nothing. That's the whole war against the middle class, because there is a whole world full of cheap labor to build stuff and send it here.

Follow the money, and learn. You know that goes for middle class repubs too don't you? You are just a willing slave who believes in doing what your told by the master, because one day, you hope to be master, when you can afford slaves right??

Maybe I am prejudiced, being a independent middle class union person, from a middle class union family, who believes a honest days work for an honest days pay, and some dignity, and respect. Lets be clear though, I got no love for the dems either, they can be a sneaky lot too!

They are more than willing, and have done what it takes to help the state budgets

Not in NY and NJ. They've opted for layoffs over give backs. Face it. Long term liabilities due to mandated funding of pensions and other union benefits are breaking state and local budgets around the country . You CANNOT tax your way out of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synnen

Nice intentional misspelling :)

Thanks, but I can't take credit. I like it though. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

Thousands of people in the streets in all the major cities is not a poll either, but it paints a picture doesn't it?

Astroturfers.

Quote:

So why do REPUBS like to dictate, and NOT TALK?

Wait a minute, it was just yesterday y'all were talking about these emails from the governor where he was trying to talk to the fleebaggers. It was just yesterday the news was reporting he caved and was rying to meet some of their demands. And besides, you can't talk to people who flee the state instead of joining the debate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

And besides, you can't talk to people who flee the state instead of joining the debate.

The debate was over when they left. They left to stop the vote. Not the debate.

They left to obstruct. BO should remind the fleebaggers that "elections have consequences" and they lost.

Yes they do, and we will see who pays the consequences.

After watching those thug protesters breaking into the capital, jumping through windows and such, they're not looking too good. Neither are Democrats who refused to do the jobs they were elected to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

After watching those thug protesters breaking into the capital, jumping through windows and such, they're not looking too good. Neither are Democrats who refused to do the jobs they were elected to do.

Hello again, Steve:

Not surprisingly, we disagree. I'm a believer in the constitutional right to assemble. We HAVE that right because demonstrations matter. Seeing the people gather together is powerful and American as apple pie... I LOVE demonstrations. I LOVE being in the face of my government... What?? You don't?? Excuse me?? Dude! Can you spell Tea Party?? Although I disagreed with SOME of the Tea Party's platforms, I LOVED that they did what they did. It's AMERICAN. It's GOOD. It's DEMOCRACY. Most importantly, it WORKS!

Calling these guys thugs is like calling the Tea Party racist. If you want to criticize the other side for calling names, maybe you shouldn't either. You should elevate yourself above the slime instead of wallowing in it. It's NICE up here. From this perch, I can be really righteous.

Next item. I'm still waiting for ANY of you winger dudes to supply me with the WRITTEN job description of a state senator from Wisconsin.. Until you do, all your BS about "refusing to do their jobs", is TOTALLY made up. In fact, they DID their jobs, and they did them WELL. Yes, they lost the battle, but won the war.

I was wondering what happened to the liberals of America. I'm surprised they showed up for THIS battle. Who knew the public service unions had so much support? I would have though they'd show up for the wars... But, nahh. I'da thought they'd show up for gay marriage.. But, nahhh. I'da thought they'd show up tax cuts for the rich, but nahhh... But public service unions?? Dude!

You pushed just a tad too far.. The 20th Century was the home to some epic progressive movements. Civil rights, labor, Social Security & Medicare, and anti war just to name a few. I know you want to, but you can't turn 'em ALL over. It ain't going to happen.

excon