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PAGE 838 sections 440 and 1904 of the House bill ,under the heading "home visitation programs for families with young children and families expecting children."Quote:
Please quote the provision
Previously this was the “Education Begins at Home Act” introduced in 2008 by Rep. Danny Davis (D-IL) and Sen. Kit Bond (R-MO)
It was then added into the House plan.
Where does it say that they are going to tell you how to raise your children?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
We already have a program here like that here, where new mothers can have visits from RNs that are specialized in newborn care. The mothers love it and it's a popular program.
Glad you like it but you are comparing apples and oranges . This is the nanny state sending in nanny monitors to make sure you are indoctinating your children properly .We don't need the government coming into our homes telling us how to raise our kids.
As ususal it is vaguely worded which leaves it to the bureaucrat to interpret the degree of intrusiveness permitted . The wording of the bill says “well-trained and competent staff” will…provide parents with knowledge of age-appropriate child development in cognitive, language, social, emotional, and motor domains…modeling, consulting, and coaching on parenting practices; [and] skills to interact with their child…the state will “prioritize serving communities that are in high need of such services, especially communities with a high proportion of low-income families or a high incidence of child maltreatment.”
In other words ;the rich may get a pass ;but the poor will not get off so easily . Evidently good parenting is equated with personal finance and income .
Yea, that's exactly what we have here. They answer parents' questions.
YOU choose to throw the nanny-state and "indoctinating" bullcrap because that's what Limbaugh and Beck tell you. We also have a great 3.5 year old mandatory assessment to see if any children need help with vision, motor skills, etc before the start of kindergarten. All to give them the best chance at success.
Lol I guess I'm wasting my time telling you I neither listen to Rush nor have ever seen the Glen Beck show... both are on while I am working . Honestly if I was to add up my time watching and listening to any media I would say it is time spent mostly in the left wing spin outlets. I watch ABC world news and watch Chris Matthews ,Jon Stewart and Steve Colbert when Yank games aren't on.
However if that is what Rush and Beck say I completely agree with them . And of course ,as always ,you are free to believe what you want.
I've been concentrating on all the other provisions of the bill that I missed the one about nanny-state parenting.
NeedKarma, do you think it is the government's job to tell parents how to raise their kids?
What happens if someone gets a visit from a "parenting counselor" who gives the parent unsolicited "advice" on raising kids, and the parent decides not to take that advice, either for philosophical reasons, or cultural reasons, or religious reasons? Does the government get to take action against that parent?
What if I don't want a visit from a parenting counselor?
Or for that matter, what if I don't want a visit from an "end-of-life counselor"?
Do I get to refuse these services?
Based on what I've read, I HAVE to accept these things. I don't have a choice.
There are plenty of good organizations out there that teach parenting to new mothers and fathers. Why does the government need to get involved?
This is the issue that nobody on the left seems able to answer: Why is this an issue for the government to deal with? Why should the government be involved in parenting at all? I do not want the government involved in determining how I raise my two children, much less telling me that I'm doing it wrong.
When everything is controlled from a centralized government (the economy, health care, parenting, death issues, travel, energy use), what you end up with is NOTHING SHORT OF COMMUNISM.
Also, what does parent-counseling have to do with health care? Why is this provision part of the health care bill at all?
Elliot
I'm happy for you NK that you trust your government so much. Me, I have a healthy skepticism of a government that wants to delve into providing parents with "knowledge of age-appropriate child development in cognitive, language, social, emotional, and motor domains…modeling, consulting, and coaching on parenting practices."
With whose values?
Like who?Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
Just off the top of my head?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Take Five Parenting:
Children's Trust Fund - Celebrating 10 Years
They in turn link to:
National Effective Parenting Initiative
https://www.effectiveparentingusa.org
That's two that I found in under 5 minutes. (I already knew about Take 5.) Think there aren't others out there?
How about nurses?
What about nurses? We're talking about organizations that help teach young parents how to parent. You asked what organizations there are. I responded with two good websites. What do nurses have to do with anything?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
They are the ones that offer support services here. I imagine it would be the same in the US plan.
I always thought the job of nurses was to take care of sick and injured people.
Well, that would make sense... so... no, that's not how things are going to be done by the government.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Why should the government be doing it at all? Why is parenting the government's responsibility?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
This is the question you need to answer.
So you view nurses as being the government?
Hello again,
I didn't read the part you guys are talking about... Why should I?? I might as well be as ignorant as YOU guys are on this issue...
The provision you're talking about is free parenting classes... Now, only a right wing jerk would call that a nanny state. Or maybe this is the part where they tell you how to kill your kids... I don't know... You sure can't trust those Dems... Good thing YOU guys are in power... (snicker, snicker)
So, because you guys aren't willing to participate in reasonable debate, this bill is going to be SHOVED down your throats... That's the way people in power DO things. No?
excon
Only when they're employed by the government and are there to check out your parenting skills at the mandate of the government.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Don't you?
But again, you are avoiding answering the important question.
Why is it the government's job to be involved in parenting?
Well, it's clear you didn't read it. Nor have you read Steve's post on the subject, because he gave you the exact wording of the bill.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
But then you've never been one to let facts get in the way of a good anti-Republican rant.
Elliot
Where does it say it is mandatory?Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
It is voluntary like paying income taxes is .
Directly from the text of the bill:
Quote:
''(a) PURPOSE.—The purpose of this section is to im-
Prove the well-being, health, and development of children
By enabling the establishment and expansion of high qual-
Ity programs providing voluntary home visitation for fami-
Lies with young children and families expecting children.
See my post. You lie or are ignorant, which one is it? (See? I learned that from you!)Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
''(a) PURPOSE.—The purpose of this section is to im-
Prove the well-being, health, and development of children
By enabling the establishment and expansion of high qual-
Ity programs providing voluntary home visitation for fami-
Lies with young children and families expecting children.
So why is anybody going to volunteer wanting this service?
Nobody likes when authorities comes to their house about their kids for whatever reasons.
I've seen gvt social workers at work in this country. It can be quite intrusive over the slimmest pretext... often prompted by a complaint by a neighbor with a grudge. . I've seen how voluntary compliance works . I mentioned before that the provision is written vaguely enough that it leaves these gvt. Workers who generally I do not trust ,wide disgression.
Another posting here recently related a story how an IRS flunky tried to intimidate a charitible organization because of it's political views. Who's to say that the same wouldn't apply when some field worker deems parents unworthy ?
I'll ignore your personal attack .
Hello N0:
I agree especially when you realize that the visiting bureaucrat is going to be keeping an eye out for any oldster he can kill.
excon
Some people like having a nurse help to show a mother how to help the baby latch on properly or how to bathe a wriggly baby. What bits are you worried about?Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
Hello again, El:Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
You say "the exact wording of the bill", as though the exact wording MEANS something to you... How could any sane man think your words mean ANYTHING, when you take end of life consultation to mean "death panels"??
Well, I'm here to tell you, no SANE man would, and I don't.
excon
He didn't... then he lied.Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
You keep saying that... but you haven't once been able to show it. Saying that he lied over and over again doesn't make it more true than the first time you said it.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
And, NK, you still haven't answered my question.
Why is it the government's business to get involved in parenting?
I'm going to keep on pointing out that you haven't answered this question until you either answer it or admit that you don't have an answer.
Elliot
Ok you little spammer :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
It's not the government, it's nurses.
BTW you have issues with conduct on discussion boards. Check out Slashdot.org for what reasoned, respectful discussion looks like. Your posts would be buried deep there.
Hello again, El:Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
I'll answer... Because SOME segments of our society don't believe in teaching their children about real life. They'd rather teach them to pretend... So, the government is going to set them straight, before they grow up to be Republicans.
excon
Then what's it doing in a government bill?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
I'm not on slashdot. I'm here, and I'm following YOUR lead in terms of ettiquette.Quote:
BTW you have issues with conduct on discussion boards. Check out Slashdot.org for what reasoned, respectful discussion looks like. Your posts would be buried deep there.
So you believe that it is the government's job to be involved in thje political indoctrination of our children.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Thought so.
At least you're honest about it. That's more than I can say about NK.
Elliot
Hello again, El:Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
Yeahhh... And, if the parent objects, they're going to send 'em to the FEMA DEATH CAMPS that Obama started. They're run by the "brown shirts" who work for ACORN.
I guess you can't tell when I'm ribbing you, huh? Might as well. When words don't mean anything anymore, what's left but BS?
excon
I missed the part in that bill where they say they are going to politically indoctrinate the children. Can you point that out for me please?Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
'Cause that's where the funding comes from.Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
Hello NK:Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
It's not in there. I made it up. What?? The righty's are the only ones who can do that??
excon
He lied? No, I make mistakes sometimes but I don't come here and lie. And in this post I quoted tom's excerpt from the bill, you aren't even on the same subject with this pathetic accusation.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
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