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Originally Posted by paraclete

Just because something isn't specifically mentioned doesn't invalidate the argument, In Revelation huge fires are mentioned and the dying, what does 666 mean if not the impact of man. I think you should read it for yourself, because you have already quoted one verse out of context and are obviously sucked into the opinions of one person. Remember you believe it is a code, what is a code but veiled references

Jesus millenial reign is a time of peace

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I've studied Revelation in college and with several different pastors and lay teachers. I am a preterist.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Yes, there are more of us. Interesting you should ask about banners! I just bought about ten yards of plain cotton-polyester that I plan to cut and dye. Any special design(s) you want on them?

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How about 12-12-12 in big numbers? That would be code for doubling down on 666. The fundies will love it.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Not in the sense she's using it. It would be more like a letter written by one spy to another where certain words have specific meanings known only to them. It's really a shame her pastor told her that, but I suppose she has never checked it out for herself.

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yes some people believe the Davinci Code too doesn't make it true

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Originally Posted by paraclete

yes some people believe the Davinci Code too doesn't make it true

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What??? It's not true???

Very true. Speaking of Clete's DvC comment.

yes some people will believe anything, they even believe the Quoran

I don’t have much trouble with different ideas as long as the person can give some rational reason for believing them. Now why we should believe Revelation is written in code?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Now why we should believe Revelation is written in code?

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Since Christians were being persecuted by Rome at the time, John coded it so that only those familiar with Jewish history would make the connection.

I understand that is your contention. Now what evidence is there of that? Did, for instance, any of the early church fathers mention that idea?

John was imprisoned on an island, why did he need a code to record his visions. The exposition on the seven churches is not a code unless he was speaking of the great falling away we see today, every church going its own way

So far we have John writing about the church in Nero's time, but after Nero's death, prophesying abut events which had already taken place, and writing in a code which no one knows and for which there is no evidence. So you can see why there exists some skepticism?

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some skepticism?

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What we have here is taking some prophesies of Jesus which were fulfilled and turning it into an excuse to say the prophesies of John referred to the same events and have been fulfilled, and what does this mean? It means we are now licensed to do whatever

I'm not even sure we have that. "I've studied Revelation in college and with several different pastors and lay teachers." Well, OK, but can that person explain why she believes that Revelation is code, or why she believes the prophesies of Revelation have all been fulfilled?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I'm not even sure we have that. "I've studied Revelation in college and with several different pastors and lay teachers." Well, OK, but can that person explain why she believes that Revelation is code, or why she believes the prophesies of Revelation have all been fulfilled?

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She did already in this thread.

Revelation almost didn't make the cut. It is one of the most controversial, complicated, and esoteric books in the New Testament canon. Chiliasm (the belief that Christ will return to earth in visible form and establish a kingdom to last 1000 years, after which the world will come to an end) was part of the controversy.

Oh? What post was that?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Oh? What post was that?

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Surely you jest.

When you were gnashing your teeth, I added more to my post #94.

Forget it. Everything has to be a joke to you. If you posted evidence, you would simply say, "Post xx". You haven't, and so you can't. You haven't because you don't have any. So until you can, find someone else to be evasive with.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Forget it. Everything has to be a joke to you. If you posted evidence, you would simply say, "Post xx". You haven't, and so you can't. You haven't because you don't have any. So until you can, find someone else to be evasive with.

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If you stopped with the nastiness and insults, I'd be more than glad to comply. And if you took the time to wander back in this thread just a bit, you'd see my post that you're crabbing about.

Sure you would. Sure I would. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Sure you would. Sure I would. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Read up on chiliasm.