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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

So you are seriously suggesting that you think we are talking about you personally enforcing tax laws? On what planet full of crazy people would that assumption be made?

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The planet full of crazy people that you call home. Next.

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Still, I'm glad to know that you are now on record as saying, "I do NOT want to legally force others to pay higher taxes." Now why you are supporting the Harris ticket that DOES want to do that very thing is a mystery. Perhaps you can "expound" on that some.

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I'll be glad to expound. Pay attention, if you can.

The only way to effect taxes is through the taxing authority of the government. The government gets that authority from the consent of the governed. To read that consent as "legally forcing" is to misconstrue the entire apparatus of an elected government. Are you the type that is ready to take up arms as part of a "militia" opposing that concept. I hope not.

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That's the only part of your comments that are worth replying to.

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You generally avoid replying to the comments that you can't defend. This time it was hell. Abortion and socialism still await a reply from you. A re-statement of what you have already said is NOT a defense.

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It's just amazing how liberals, rather than simply answering a question, have to go to the place of needing a point by point analysis to answer a very simple question.

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Pay attention, again.

That's how liberals, or anyone else, reply effectively to a claim - with a point by point analysis, especially to a simple question which, by definition, leaves so much out that is necessary. Since you can't do that, you throw it under the bus. Don't you realize how truly dopey you look with statements like that?

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you do not want to legally (by law) force others to pay higher taxes

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True.

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and that you don't consider your tax proposals, whatever they are, to have any morally superior basis.

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Very true!

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If you can get a liberal to answer a few questions, then the truth becomes plain.

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The truth was always plain - plain as the nose on your face. It's not the fault of others you can't see it.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

We actually have Athos on record with some clear statements.

1. 1. "NO, I do NOT consider myself morally superior for the reason you state." (because you want to legally force others to {pay higher taxes})
   
   2. "I do NOT want to legally force others to pay higher taxes."
   
   3. "I am absolutely, positively, and completely WILLING to pay higher taxes."

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Thank you, jl. Athos, me, has a habit of making clear statements. It's easy enough to verify that - go back a few years and see what I've written. Unlike you, Jl, most members here make clear statements.

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Now he is supporting the Harris ticket which supports legally forcing the wealthy to pay much higher tax rates while NOT raising his tax rates, so those seem to be hollow beliefs,

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I'm not familiar with the "Harris ticket". I'm not even sure who he is. Although your rendition of his "ticket" seems good to me as far as it goes. I have no problem with my tax rates being raised as I've already said, and which you just quoted above. So why you say my beliefs are "hollow" is one more of your semantic mysteries. Honestly, jl, the ways of expressing English are clearly beyond your ken. Shocking for someone who claims to be a teacher.

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You cannot, I might add, resort to your usual, "JL misquoted me" complaint, a complaint for which you are never able to cite so much as a single example.

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My usual complaint about you is that you are so stupid and mean-spirited - not misquoting although you probably do that, also. I think you misquote the others here more than me.

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I copied and pasted your quotes above.

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Yes, you did. Thank you. I'm very proud of my quotes.

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I had Tal on record with a statement. "Rich people pay all the taxes". However, he then went on to admit he had misstated his position and acknowledged that poor people pay taxes, which raises the question of why he said that rich people pay "all" the taxes in the first place. Oh well. Then, quite naturally, he complained that I had taken his words "literally". As is usually the case with liberals, their mistakes are always someone else's fault. That must be a very pleasant world to live in.

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More evidence of your tendency to misunderstand what is being written.

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Originally Posted by Athos

to JL: More evidence of your tendency to misunderstand what is being written.

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Even I, a woman (a mere WOMAN!), understood what Tal had written.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Even I, a woman (a mere WOMAN!), understood what Tal had written.

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HEY - isn't Wonder WOMAN your mom? Can you deflect bullets with your wrist like Mother? You're hardly MERE. You are - drum beat - WONDERGIRLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!

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Originally Posted by Athos

HEY - isn't Wonder WOMAN your mom? Can you deflect bullets with your wrist like Mother? You're hardly MERE. You are - drum beat - WONDERGIRLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!

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Some men don't think so. If only they'd meet with me in a public library at 302 or even 616.

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The only way to effect taxes is through the taxing authority of the government. The government gets that authority from the consent of the governed. To read that consent as "legally forcing" is to misconstrue the entire apparatus of an elected government. Are you the type that is ready to take up arms as part of a "militia" opposing that concept. I hope not.

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Never thought someone would have such an issue with the very simple concept of what "legally forced" might mean. Of course taxation is legally forced, as in "legal enforcement". Do you think people do them voluntarily? If you don't think they are legally forced, try not paying your taxes. You will fairly soon have a new understanding of the concept.

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This time it was hell. Abortion and socialism still await a reply from you. A re-statement of what you have already said is NOT a defense.

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I will be happy to repost the 25 scriptures concerning hell I have posted three or four times before. Do you want to see them again? There are no outstanding questions on socialism or abortion I have not already answered. But I will be more than happy to do this. I'll engage in the "ask a question, and then answer a question" system of dialogue with you. You can ask first if you'd like, but you must pledge to answer the question that will come back at you.

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I have no problem with my tax rates being raised as I've already said

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You say it now. You never said it before I raised it as a question for you. So I will be happy to accept your thanks for helping you clarify your views.

I'm very happy you did not resort to the silly allegation, completely unsupported, that I misquoted you. You've tried that before to no avail, so it's nice it didn't happen here. I'm also very happy to have you on record so you can't change your views a few weeks from now. It does make it a somewhat more rational world.

As to Tal's views, I clearly understand, as do the two of you, what he said. In most places, saying that the rich pay all of the taxes means that...the rich pay all of the taxes. If either of you knows some way he can wriggle out of that, please post it. Now you can argue that he MEANT something else, but you cannot argue that he SAID something else.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

If either of you knows some way he can wriggle out of that, please post it. Now you can argue that he MEANT something else, but you cannot argue that he SAID something else.

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You are truly a literalist and take no interest in context.

If you can explain how his context altered his meaning, then go for it. I've been hearing that rumor for three days now, but have seen no substance. This is your chance. Seize it, oh Wonderwoman...er, Wondergirl!

BTW, I'm completely open to the idea that Tal meant something other than what he said. It would be fine to simply come back and say, "I was using hyperbole. I did not literally mean that the wealthy pay all of the taxes." OK. That's understandable. But instead, there has to be this hyper response such as the one, right on cue, below. As I've said, it is always, always someone else's fault.

Give it up dude, quoting a part of the post is lying by omission you fruitcake. No wonder you're a loon you have spun yourself dizzy. Stop changing what I said and lying about what I meant. Twisting stuff around seems to bring you perverse pleasure so should we have pretzels instead of donuts? OOOOOH...Nice big soft warm pretzels. 8O

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

If you can explain how his context altered his meaning, then go for it.

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You must have not studied metaphorical language in a college English class. Ah, and no Shakespeare either? (Shakespeare's works are rife with metaphors and tropes.) "All the world's a stage" and "But soft! What light through yonder window breaks? It is the East, and Juliet is the sun!" and "Now cracks a noble heart. Good night sweet prince: And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest! —Horatio, Hamlet"

I posted this just seconds, evidently, before Tal posted his. I want to repost it. He did a splendid job of verifying what I was saying. "BTW, I'm completely open to the idea that Tal meant something other than what he said. It would be fine to simply come back and say, "I was using hyperbole. I did not literally mean that the wealthy pay all of the taxes." OK. That's understandable. But instead, there has to be this hyper response such as the one, right on cue, below (or now above)."

This was your first well reasoned, sensible, calm remark. "You're a NUT! At least be an honest one and quote me fully instead of cherry picking parts of it." Good grief. Stop the snowflake routine. As I've said, it is always, always someone else's fault.

So there can never be a well-reasoned response. It always has to be a blast of finger pointing, ignorance and name calling. And now you are being compared to Shakespeare? Hmmm.

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You must have not studied metaphorical language in a college English class.

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Twice. I am very familiar with it. In what way was, "the rich pay all of the taxes" a metaphor? Probably more like hyperbole?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Twice. I am very familiar with it. In what way was, "the rich pay all of the taxes" a metaphor? Probably more like hyperbole?

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I said metaphorical language. I'd call the sentence you are quibbling about a trope: "...its major function is to give additional meaning to the text, and allow readers to think profoundly..."

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Give it up dude, quoting a part of the post is lying by omission you fruitcake. No wonder you're a loon you have spun yourself dizzy. Stop changing what I said and lying about what I meant. Twisting stuff around seems to bring you perverse pleasure so should we have pretzels instead of donuts? OOOOOH...Nice big soft warm pretzels. 8O

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Originally posted by Wondergirl

You must have not studied metaphorical language in a college English class. Ah, and no Shakespeare either? (Shakespeare's works are rife with metaphors and tropes.) "All the world's a stage" and "But soft! What light through yonder window breaks? It is the East, and Juliet is the sun!" and "Now cracks a noble heart. Good night sweet prince: And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest! —Horatio, Hamlet"

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Two posts each renowned for their remarkable use of language expressed so elegantly. It is an honor to be residing in such a wonderfully literate home such as AMHD. I am equally (almost) grateful to Jl who, with his crudities, allows such lights as you two to shine.

“Lord Polonius: What do you read, my lord?
Hamlet: Words, words, words.
Lord Polonius: What is the matter, my lord?
Hamlet: Between who?
Lord Polonius: I mean, the matter that you read, my lord.”

― William Shakespeare, Hamlet

Read on, MacDuff.

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Originally Posted by Athos

I am equally (almost) grateful to Jl who, with his crudities, allows such lights as you two to shine.

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Thank you, dear Athos. Now if only JL had crudites to share with us.

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I said metaphorical language. I'd call the sentence you are quibbling about a trope: "...its major function is to give additional meaning to the text, and allow readers to think profoundly..."

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I normally concede to you in matters of grammar, but I don't see here that it gave the text any additional meaning, unless you consider saying something that is untrue amounts to giving additional meaning. I think he was exaggerating for effect. Hyperbole.

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I am equally (almost) grateful to Jl who, with his crudities, allows such lights as you two to shine.

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Always nice to be appreciated. Also nice for you to give us a pretty extreme example of hyperbole. Wow.

Also nice to see how enthusiastically WG supports shaming and insults. Unless, of course, she thinks they are aimed at her. Hmmm. How do you define, "double standard"?

Do you plan on taking me up on this, oh thou elegant one, thou shining light named Athos? "But I will be more than happy to do this. I'll engage in the "ask a question, and then answer a question" system of dialogue with you. You can ask first if you'd like, but you must pledge to answer the question that will come back at you." Answers need to be relatively complete with no dodging or mud slinging.

A couple of other items you did not respond to. " If you don't think they are legally forced, try not paying your taxes. You will fairly soon have a new understanding of the concept." "I will be happy to repost the 25 scriptures concerning hell I have posted three or four times before. Do you want to see them again? There are no outstanding questions on socialism or abortion I have not already answered." Perhaps you simply overlooked them. It has been a busy day, and you have needed time to wax eloquent with your glowing compliments. I'm beginning to wonder about you two!! (For the humor impaired, that is a joke.)

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I don't see that it gave the text any additional meaning, unless you consider saying something that is untrue amounts to giving additional meaning. I think he was exaggerating for effect. Hyperbole.

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Nope.
Don't be a dope.
It's a trope.
Yes. I know you'll mope.
I definitely have hope
That, in time, you'll learn to cope
And please don't call the Pope!
I don't want to tie you up with rope!
(Maybe wash your mouth out with soap?)

Why can't you answer a simple question? What additional meaning did it give?

Calling you and Tal "lights" that "shine"? Yeahhh, I'd say that was hyperbole seven days a week. Your poem above pretty much seals the deal and everything Tal writes REALLY seals the deal. I wouldn't suggest sending your poem to a publisher. Just sayin.

"The rich pay all the taxes." That supplied additional, true information? Really???

Hyperbole.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I wouldn't suggest sending your poem to a publisher. Just sayin.

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Naw, I write better stuff than that, have been traditionally published seven times. Now I write for fun and send my work to entertain my friends who are homebound and in nursing homes. (Our cats and my hematology team have given me lots of story ideas.) Although, I did recently send in a 100-word flash fiction to a magazine for a $1000 prize.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

"The rich pay all the taxes." That supplied additional, true information? Really???

Hyperbole.

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Nope. (Don't make me write another rap poem!) Quote the entire passage, not just a cherry-picked sentence.