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Originally Posted by talaniman

I didn't think you would get it Clete, but you have make the predictable excuses not to understand. Different ethos? Really? Your hate isn't from fear but false superiority. You don't want to factor the similarities, because the thought of being like "them" blows your whole mind. Too bad, you could use the freedom of not proving yourself right, by making "them" wrong. Probably easier for you to just hate.

That's lazy as hell though.

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You really don't get it Tal, we are all people but with different aspirations. You want to impose upon me your ethos, but if you look at my nation we have a much more inclusive society than your own. You claim to be inclusive but you have serious divisions so you can't preach to me until you fix the serious divisions and hatreds within your own society. I believe that various peoples belong in their own society because they have developed in a particular way, we can interact but it is better we don't live together. I have taken a look around this world, I have found much of this looks the same but it is a mistake to think it is the same, that the same motivations drive the people.

you have to excuse him .Islam fulfills a stereotype of what religion is in the progressive mindset .Therefore in their moral equivalent minds ,there is no significant difference.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

you have to excuse him .Islam fulfills a stereotype of what religion is in the progressive mindset .Therefore in their moral equivalent minds ,there is no significant difference.

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Yes Tom it is easy for people to become marginalised in religion if their conviction isn't strong, for me Muslims represent a group of people who are deceived and follow a works program trying to balance good and evil, in such a scenario evil often wins. There are parts of christianity who also have that mindset even though that is not what it is about

The idea that the government can cure all ills is falacious but they should not be making things worse

Can we agree that the church as government is a bunch of BS?

yes we can

No one wants a government regulated by a religion least of all a legalistic religion

I just wonder if the West is really willing to make the sacrifices necessary to win a war against an enemy that is firmly committed to their peculiar ideology . Last reports I read were that there was over 30,000 Islamic State fighters on the ground who in their view are a virtuous band of brothers recreating the caliphates of Baghdad ,and ultimately Cordoba . What are we fighting for ?..to preserve the model of the Sykes-Picot Agreement ? At least President GW Bush had a vision of a 3rd way alternative path to reform ,opposed to the options being offered to the ummah ;oppressive monarchy or Jihadistan. (our Muslim allies in this conflict represent the Monarchies and by extension the model we are defending ) If the Salafi-Takfiris model ,or the alternative Persian Shia model becomes the only option for the muslim world to embrace then we are looking at some real tough existential choices of our own.... ones that our current leadership isn't up to.

Yes we will sacrifice the last saudi, the last Iraqi and the last turk

if we could be assured that they would limit it to their space then I say it is their struggle.
unfortunately they have eyes on a bigger prize.

Every tyrannt in history has his eyes on a bigger prize, it's the methodoly, we don't like murder as a tool, we don't like genocide. As far as I'm concerned the Muslims can play in their own sand patch as long as the games they play don't include wholesale murder and mayhem

I see the americans are kowtowing to the muslims again, being forced to apologise for telling the truth after creating alarm in the muslim world. what would the world be if you couldn't sponsor terrorists (freedom fighters)

Joe Biden apologizes to Turkey. UAE - CNN.com

He also conveniently ignored the US role in supplying the so called FSA out of Libya .

Well of course he did