what is amazing is where these debates lead, always to the baser parts of human nature
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what is amazing is where these debates lead, always to the baser parts of human nature
I'm one who's pretty tired of this late June ritual of waiting breathlessly for these unelected oligarchs to make narrow decisions on our liberty . Nothing was won today except that we lost a little less religious liberty than we thought .
[why do you have to wait until June or is it summer madness?
because SCOTUS traditionally waits until summer recess before they make major rulings.
The emperor will make an executive order to skirt SCOTUS . After all ,the contraceptive mandate was one of his decrees. A small part of it was whittled away and the bulk of the nation still has to comply to his edict.
I see they need to shine some light on their findings as if the dark halls of the courts lack illumination
Once Roberts made law by rewriting Obamacare ,then it was inevidible that they'd have to jump hoops and twist like a pretzel to dissect each part of the law that gets challenged. In the end ,the law will be more or less the construct of SCOTUS ;the unelected branch.Quote:
I see they need to shine some light on their findings as if the dark halls of the courts lack illumination
You just changed the argument from an arts and crafts store to a christian book store. Why did you feel the need to do that?Quote:
So no one works in a Christian book store because it's a Christian book store?
Why do you feel the need to be wrong? I specifically listed 3 faith-based businesses, one of which is Mardel, owned by the Hobby Lobby guys.
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Do you moonbats not understand that probably a lot of women work for Hobby Lobby, Mardel and Chik-Fil-A BECAUSE of their owner’s morals and not in spite of them?
Scotus suggests the same accommodation for religious organizations can be made for employees of companies like Hobby Lobby, but I think a companies religious freedom stops at the religious freedom of the employees, and many more companies will start claiming religious freedom affecting even more employees.
I don't think insurance companies are as ready to be accommodating as the government or scotus. Covering some birth control, and not others is a sham to begin with.
Karma why do you continually show your arrogance and ignorance in these matters? I once began a Christian Book store to be a Christian Book store and worked there voluntarily something I would not have done in an ordinary book store. Faith is important, as you have no faith you have no idea. I have seen and done inexplicble things done in faith and without faith it would not have been possibleQuote:
So no one works in a Christian book store because it's a Christian book store?
People of faith have a particular view and scripturally they are a pecular people in the eyes of people like you
Been listening to Mimi Pelosi, eh? So let's put that to the test. A pharmacist says his religious beliefs won't allow him to dispense abortifacients. What now?Quote:
but I think a companies religious freedom stops at the religious freedom of the employees
Because you both are wrong. I was referring to people getting employment with arts and crafts stores and restaurants. I'm certain the job market isn't that slanted towards the job seekers in that they can leisurely research the background of all owners. Steve then changes the argument to only Christian book stores to try to salvage his point.Quote:
Karma why do you continually show your arrogance and ignorance in these matters?
So you know more than 9 Supreme Court Justices who have heard all the arguments, saw the evidence, and a Majority sided with.
A true socialist mindset...believing the workers have domain over the actual business owners who built the business and did all the investment to make it work.
If they don't like it...they can go down the street and work for someone else that does offer it.
Obamacare was never voted on....it was rammed through with trickery and deceit. Forced upon a population where the vast majority want nothing to do with it.
It wasn't your point it was mine. The facts don't disappear because the page changes. "Do you moonbats not understand that probably a lot of women work for Hobby Lobby, Mardel and Chik-Fil-A BECAUSE of their owner's morals and not in spite of them?"Quote:
Because you both are wrong. I was referring to people getting employment with arts and crafts stores and restaurants. I'm certain the job market isn't that slanted towards the job seekers in that they can leisurely research the background of all owners. Steve then changes the argument to only Christian book stores to try to salvage his point.
You live in a bubble if you can't get what's obvious.
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At Hobby Lobby, we value our customers and employees and are committed to:
- Honoring the Lord in all we do by operating the company in a manner consistent with biblical principles.
- Offering our customers exceptional selection and value in the crafts and home decor market.
- Serving our employees and their families by establishing a work environment and company policies that build character, strengthen individuals and nurture families.
- Providing a return on the owner's investment, sharing the Lord's blessings with our employees, and investing in our community.
We believe that it is by God's grace and provision that Hobby Lobby has endured. He has been faithful in the past, and we trust Him for our future.
Hobby Lobby is THE place to shop with everyday Super Selections and Super Savings! Store hours are Monday through Saturday from 9 a.m. to 8 p.m. and all Hobby Lobby stores are closed on Sunday.
Our other affiliated companies headquartered in Oklahoma City include Mardel and Hemispheres.
You already know about Chik-Fil-A, those gay-hating closed on Sundays guys. Now man up and stop misrepresenting my posts please.Quote:
About Mardel
Mardel Christian & Education is a faith-based company dedicated to renewing minds and transforming lives through the products we sell and the ministries we support. To this end, we provide a large selection of Bibles, books, movies, gifts, music, kid products, apparel, church and educational supplies, and homeschool curriculum.
We offer quality products at the best prices on Mardel.com and across our 35 stores located in the central region of the United States. Our products share truth, teach knowledge, offer encouragement, inspire worship, and bring joy – fulfilling the vision of Mardel to make a difference and give hope.
Furthering our mission, we faithfully give 10% of our net profits to help print Bibles translated by Wycliffe Bible Translators. Wycliffe Bible Translators is a ministry dedicated to translating the Bible into the language of every people group around the World.
We are a resource center equipping the whole person – specializing in the provision of all your spiritual and intellectual needs.
They skirted the larger 1st amendment issue in favor of a "narrow" ruling about Obamacare and RFRA . Congress can remedy this by amending either RFRA or Obamacare . More likely the emperor or his flunkie at HHS will make another decree from on high.Quote:
Scotus suggests the same accommodation for religious organizations can be made for employees of companies like Hobby Lobby, but I think a companies religious freedom stops at the religious freedom of the employees, and many more companies will start claiming religious freedom affecting even more employees.
I don't think insurance companies are as ready to be accommodating as the government or scotus. Covering some birth control, and not others is a sham to begin with.
talk about a storm in a teacup
Congress will do SQUAT! They have done nothing about any of the SCOTUS rulings so in a vacuum, the president has no choice but to act.
Yup, he'll just make us pay for them. The hysterics are just that, hysterics.
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Imagine that a woman starts work at Hobby Lobby tomorrow morning — July 1. She joins Hobby Lobby’s health care plan. It includes access, copay-free, to the following categories of FDA-approved birth-control:
- Male condoms
- Female condoms
- Diaphragms with spermicide
- Sponges with spermicide
- Cervical caps with spermicide
- Spermicide alone
- Birth-control pills with estrogen and progestin (“Combined Pill)
- Birth-control pills with progestin alone (“The Mini Pill)
- Birth control pills (extended/continuous use)
- Contraceptive patches
- Contraceptive rings
- Progestin injections
- Implantable rods
- Vasectomies
- Female sterilization surgeries
- Female sterilization implants
(This new woman at Hobby Lobby cannot use male condoms or a vasectomy, at least not directly. However, if she chose either contraceptive method, in conjunction with her husband, she would have access to it.)Further, not only would she have access to these medicines and devices, but Hobby Lobby would fund them. That’s right: while White House press secretary Josh Earnest claims that it “jeopardizes the health of women,” Hobby Lobby’s health plan pays for 16 different kinds of contraceptives for its female employees!In the Left’s fantasy world, the militant Christians at Hobby Lobby police single female employees to assure that they have not engaged in sinful, pre-marital sex. As for married women, Hobby Lobby deprives them of birth control so that each can deliver a new baby every nine months, for God’s glory, just like in the Old Testament.Liberals are living in a cartoon of their own making.Again, Hobby Lobby’s health plan pays for birth-control pills, vaginal rings, contraceptive patches, and other items to help female employees plan their pregnancies. The Left’s arguments to the contrary are — surprise, surprise — lies.What Hobby Lobby will not cover are four contraceptive methods that its owners fear are abortifacients:
- Plan B (“The Morning After Pill”)
- Ella (a similar type of “emergency contraception”)
- Copper Intra-Uterine Device
- IUD with progestin
Rather than simply prevent sperm and ova from uniting, Hobby Lobby’s owners believe that these medications either kill human beings when they are fertilized eggs or prevent them from implanting themselves in utero, whereupon they die.Hobby Lobby does not prevent its female employees from using any of these four types of contraceptives. However, since they believe these innovations kill babies, they simply require that any employees who want to use them buy them with their own money.The Left behaves as if Hobby Lobby were forcing their female employees to wear burqas. But Hobby Lobby’s policy is no different than, say, walking into the cafeteria at Yeshiva University and demanding a bacon cheeseburger.“I am sorry,” the cafeteria manager replies. “We keep kosher. If you want a chicken sandwich or some brisket, we can help. Indeed, our prices are subsidized. So, we will help you buy those items. But if you want to mix milk and meat and bite into a pork product, please purchase a bacon cheeseburger at the restaurant across the street. When you are done, please come back to work.”
Bullsh*t. There never was a crisis and it doesn’t work that way, we don’t have an imperial presidency, you don’t get to do whatever you want just because you’re a petulant loser who didn’t get his way with Congress. If Hobby Lobby employees want to kill their babies they can pay for it themselves. Otherwise, they can enjoy the HL funded contraceptives they’re provided.Quote:
the president has no choice but to act.
P.S. You didn’t answer my last question.
Steve,
I don't doubt that's what their mission statement says, I never disagreed there. Where I disagree is you saying that employees seek out employment there BECAUSE of those mission statements. I thought I was pretty clear on that.
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