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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Back then excon et al. fought in 'Nam to keep this country safe so you could grow up and have rights.

Well, if he was in the continental U.S. during 9/11/01, he definitely wasn't 5,000 miles away, but more like half of that or less.

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So... I was handling one of only a few handling most of the secured communications that made the first gulf war possible, FROM overseas. We were in a similar situation then.

Lets see, if YOUR kids get killed in a home invasion... then I can argue its really no different than when it happens to someone across the country.

When I heard the Pentagon was burning... I didn't turn on the TV... I went outside and could see it from the roof of my office.

When they listed the fatalities in the paper... the names of the two guys I worked with all night were in it. To this day I don't know how many other people in that office died, beyond the two names I recognised. I had no way of finding out. It was destroyed, and the Military wasn't going to divulge that info anyway. Thing called "Need to know".

Don't pretend it effected you the same when you didn't know people that actually died... saw them only a few hours earlier, and was almost there yourself, and should have been.


Empathize all you want... but unless you were actually there, you can't grasp its totality.

Ever try that line with a Combat veteran? What response did you get out of curiousity?

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Ever try that line with a Combat veteran? What response did you get out of curiousity?

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Hello again, smoothy:

I'm a combat veteran. I say again, to think that YOU, smoothy was attacked, but 99.9% of the REST of us, in this great country, WEREN'T because we weren't there, is the NUTTIEST thing, out of a BUNCH of nutty things, you have ever said... But, I'm sure they'll get nuttier.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

I'm a combat veteran. I say again, to think that YOU, smoothy was attacked, but 99.9% of the REST of us, in this great country, WEREN'T because we weren't there, is the NUTTIEST thing, out of a BUNCH of nutty things, you have ever said.... But, I'm sure they'll get nuttier.

excon

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Really... 99.9% of the public was never in their targets and never were at risk of getting killed much less injured.


Try that with many of the people that walked out of the towers or the pentagon, or the first responders, you will be guaranteed to get clocked.

Kudos for doing your part and not running to Canada... just so I acknowledge that part...

However that really isn't parcel to this specific discussion. That's like a clerk in a Depot in Ft Letterkenny saying he was just as much in danger as the poor SOB pulling point duty on a patrol in the jungle of Nam (you name the place) or on one of those godforsaken river patrol boats like my best friend was on. He never saw who was shooting when he was on one and got shot at plenty. Damn near got killed on dry land over there too several times IN TOWN. Surely YOU can relate to THAT analogy... because you are making that same argument.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Really....99.9% of the public was never in their targets

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But if you think back to that day, NO ONE knew what the targets were -- the Golden Gate Bridge, the Sears Tower, Mount Rushmore, the Alamo. EVERYONE was scared and EVERYONE felt like a target and NO ONE knew where the next plane would hit -- that day, the next day, every night, the next week, even the next month. We're still holding our collective breath.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

But if you think back to that day, NO ONE knew what the targets were -- the Golden Gate Bridge, the Sears Tower, Mount Rushmore, the Alamo. EVERYONE was scared and EVERYONE felt like a target and NO ONE knew where the next plane would hit -- that day, the next day, every night, the next week, even the next month. We're still holding our collective breath.

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Funny... we knew in very little time HOW MANY planes were hijacked and where the last one was headed before the passengers brough it down... in PA. True the first two were a mystery... the Pentagon they knew about only moments before... the forth they tracked for quite a ways before it turned around and headed for DC.

Harry Homeowner in Podunk Idaho was never at risk in his house.

Target #4 was the whitehouse... and depending on the approach angle, my office was easily in downrange debris hitting range.

There WAS a citywide evacuation when that happened. But streets were gridlocked so it was never an option.

THat one if it hadn't been brought down may or may not have effected us... in my office, too many variables.

I however WAS in that Pentagon office, I was asked to stay a few more hours and help them on the next shift... I routinely did do that, in fact that was the ONLY time in the 30 years I have been working, 16 at this employer that I essentually go up and walked out on a customer, told them I could come back later but I really needed to leave right now for a while.

IF 9/11 would not have happened I would have been disciplined and possible fired for that.

But you can not relate to what a combat vet experiences... and you can't relate to what ammounts to narrowly escaping death by pure luck.

You can't relate to what a rape victim goes through, unless you were one, and you can't relate to what child abuse does to a kid if you were nevre abused yourself.


You may think you have an idea... but reality is NOT what imagination makes you think.

Nobody really knows what metal they are made of until they themselves are in that position... some of the strongest people break down, and some of the meekest (is that really a word) rise to show valor.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Harry Homeowner in Podunk Idaho was never at risk in his house.

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Harry didn't know he wasn't at risk.

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Nobody really knows what metal they are made of

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The word is "mettle" -- a person's ability to cope well with difficulties or to face a demanding situation in a spirited and resilient way.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Nobody really knows what metal they are made of until they themselves are in that position...some of the strongest people break down, and some of the meekest (is that really a word) rise to show valor.

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Hello again, smoothy:

So, somebody shot at you and missed. Big deal. Somebody shot at me and didn't miss. Big deal. It didn't make me special, like you think your ordeal made you feel. But, I don't CARE how you feel. Being shot at and MISSED, doesn't entitle you to anything. You AREN'T special. You have no more right to feel anger at being attacked than 300 million other American do.

To say you are SPECIAL, as you continue to do, is arrogant, and it diminishes and trivializes what your fellow Americans feel.

excon

So perhaps we can get back to the thread that seems to be lost, we have an answer, the Muslims in Kashmir (rent a crowd) went nuts over the wack jobs in the US tearing pages out of the Quoran in Washington but I quess they missed the guy smoking it. It seems Iran was upset with Washington and focused their hate there. I think it is interesting we haven't heard from the Muslims in Afghanistan and Pakistan, they might have other things on their mind and in any case you wouldn't want to get too close to the guns

Clete , the nut jobs in Kashmir have been waging civil war on and off since the partition. Why do we have to cower concerned over their reaction ? I for one am sick of walking on egg shells worrying what the Muslim on the street thinks . They take their marching orders from their clerics from the day they are born and nothing we do can change that .The Kashmiri riots were the result of some clown calling himself a man of god stoking the flames... not the burning of the Koran. Let's at least be honest about where the problem lie.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Clete , the nut jobs in Kashmir have been waging civil war on and off since the partition. Why do we have to cower concerned over their reaction ? I for one am sick of walking on egg shells worrying what the Muslim on the street thinks . They take their marching orders from their clerics from the day they are born and nothing we do can change that .The Kashmiri riots were the result of some clown calling himself a man of god stoking the flames....not the burning of the Koran. Let's at least be honest about where the problem lie.

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Hey Tom who's asking you to cower, this is the opportunity to show strength and show India the same consideration you have shown Afghanistan unless of course you side with pakistan, difficult to know who your friends are, but a few drones should sort things out, after all they are Muslim militants, aren't they?

I for one have always advocated a close relationship with India. Our "friendship" with the Pakis is a cold war relic.
In your previous reply you referenced Iranian intervention. That appears to be a common thread throughout the ummah.
But not to worry. Our President still has that outstretched hand of friendship waiting to grasp the hands of the delusional homicidal sadistic 12ers .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

. Our President still has that outstretched hand of friendship waiting to grasp the hands of the delusional homicidal sadistic 12ers .

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He has a peace prize to justify Tom, hey, did you hear about the brit who is banned from the US for sending BO an offensive email, no outstreached hand there even though the content was probably milder than what Ahamadjihad serves up

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Harry didn't know he wasn't at risk.

The word is "mettle" -- a person's ability to cope well with difficulties or to face a demanding situation in a spirited and resilient way.

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Lets just say, I had an inside track as to what was happening before the news reported it... they were pretty quick getting it out however that day.

Actually I thought that was the correct spelling, but wasn't sure. Spell checkers even when you have one only go so far.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

He has a peace prize to justify Tom, hey, did you hear about the brit who is banned from the US for sending BO an offensive email, no outstreached hand there even though the content was probally milder than what Ahamadjihad serves up

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The Messiah is pretty thin skinned. Its well known here in Washington how indignent he gets when second guessed or questioned much less when anyone disagrees with his sermons on the mound.

What do you expect from a guy that's what 21 months into the job now (12 months last year and 9 so far this year) and still blames everything he did wrong on someone else that's not even in office, anywhere.


Except of course... the Peace prize, he took credit for that even if he hasn't done anything to earn it at all.

Damn the Norweigans really blew it on that one... the Nobel Peace prize now carries the same value as a McDonalds Happymeal prize. Nobody can ever hold that up again and be taken seriously.

Why do people insist on injection their religion into politics?

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Why do people insist on injection their religion into politics?

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Well, in Islam politics IS part of the Religion as is every aspect of ones life, think 1984, its even in the bedroom telling what you can do and how often.

Its not simply a religon like most others.

Its like asking a politician to keep their personal viewpoints to themselves when they are supposed to be acting in their constituents interests... It rarely happens.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

He has a peace prize to justify Tom, hey, did you hear about the brit who is banned from the US for sending BO an offensive email, no outstreached hand there even though the content was probally milder than what Ahamadjihad serves up

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Well that's different. He has a personal grudge against the Brits that goes back to the colonial era. He made it clear early on that he will at best tolerate our special relationship . It has also been obvious that he will neglect relationships with friends while he tries to appease enemies.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

So, somebody shot at you and missed. Big deal. Somebody shot at me and didn't miss. Big deal. It didn't make me special, like you think your ordeal made you feel. But, I don't CARE how you feel. Being shot at and MISSED, doesn't entitle you to anything. You AREN'T special. You have no more right to feel anger at being attacked than 300 million other American do.

To say you are SPECIAL, as you continue to do, is arrogant, and it diminishes and trivializes what your fellow Americans feel.

excon

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What is arrogant is what YOU are saying.

I can hear you telling a rape victim to suck it up... you are still alive, YOU aren't special.

Or THe families of First Responders killed or died later of lung problems... because they aren't special.


You on the west coast somehow believe you went through the same thing someone who was actually there did.


If you were a Combat Veteran like you said... the Clerk in Headquarters can claim he went through the same thing you went through on Patrol when you encountered VC or NVA. Because after all, you weren't special, and it diminished the hardships the people in the rear had to deal with as opposed to hose in the field.


Yeah, right, and I have some prime Kanasas ocean front property to sell you if you believe that.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

...think 1984, its even in the bedroom telling what you can do and how often.

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Sounds like the Christian right.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Sounds like the Christian right.

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You won't get stoned to death by the Christian right anyplace in the world, in fact most on the christian right don't give a damn what you do in the bedroom... you will get stoned to death in an Islamic country where Sharia is the rule of law.