How can we be sure the Republicans have the facts all wrong when the Dems are so anxious to push everything through without reading it?

I am not about to believe that everything is going good until years later when I see the true results. Until then I don't trust a thing they are doing or trying to do.

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

How can we be sure the Republicans have the facts all wrong when the Dems are so anxious to push everything through without reading it?

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Hello N0:

Let's start with, the Democrats want to kill your grandma... Now, you don't have to like Democrats. You don't have to agree with Democrats... But, even you can't believe they're doing that...

So, as long as the Republicans are running around harping THAT crap, WE can be absolutely SURE they have the facts wrong.

You HAVE been following this particular argument on the other thread, haven't you?? The Wolverine and I took it apart and put it back together again. Only the sadly misinformed could have walked away from that argument believing that granny's days are numbered...

So, any Republican who says that is dead wrong.

excon

There is no such thing as a free lunch, I just don't understand how it is a government or people can't understand that.

On the surface this looks like a great idea, stimulate auto sales, that is; give your new business a little helping hand with public money and at the same time reduce the carbon footprint of all those cars. A Win-Win situation. It would be if the new cars bought were actually new models but they aren't, the new models aren't available yet, all that is happening is existing stocks are getting cleared out. It's sort of like firing a shot though the barrel of a rifle that hasn't been used for a while. Yes, some 1990's models might get retired but some of those might have been more efficient than the guzzlers around today

When will you learn not to listen to the hype, what is happening is people are borrowing money to buy new cars at a time when their future is uncertain, a good deal because you got a discount on an over priced model. It's just the same old horse trading with a new twist, give the sucker more than the old clunker is worth and he will run to buy the new one off the dealers lot, then the government's motor company can start pumping out more

There truly is one born every minute and I bet I know where they live.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello N0:

Let's start with, the Democrats wanna kill your grandma.... Now, you don't have to like Democrats. You don't have to agree with Democrats... But, even you can't believe they're doing that....

So, as long as the Republicans are running around harping THAT crap, WE can be absolutely SURE they have the facts wrong.

You HAVE been following this particular argument on the other thread, haven't you??? The Wolverine and I took it apart and put it back together again. Only the sadly misinformed could have walked away from that argument believing that granny's days are numbered...

So, any Republican who says that is dead wrong.

excon

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We'll see

ABC news reported yesterday that this is killing the low end used car business . A lot owner sarcastically said that they are considering asking for a government bailout . No doubt it is also negatively impacting the auto repair industry.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

there is no such thing as a free lunch, I just don't understand how it is a government or people can't understand that.

On the surface this looks like a great idea, stimulate auto sales, that is; give your new business a little helping hand with public money and at the same time reduce the carbon footprint of all those cars. A Win-Win situation. It would be if the new cars bought were actually new models but they arn't, the new models arn't available yet, all that is happening is existing stocks are getting cleared out. It's sort of like firing a shot though the barrel of a rifle that hasn't been used for a while. yes, some 1990's models might get retired but some of those might have been more efficient than the guzzlers around today

When will you learn not to listen to the hype, what is happening is people are borrowing money to buy new cars at a time when their future is uncertain, a good deal because you got a discount on an over priced model. It's just the same old horse trading with a new twist, give the sucker more than the old clunker is worth and he will run to buy the new one off the dealers lot, then the government's motor company can start pumping out more

There truely is one born every minute and I bet I know where they live.

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Exactly. This is about moving cars, if you really want to reduce your carbon foot print, don't drive. Walk. Move out of the subburbs and closer to your job. You can have an old truck that gets 10 mpg, if you live around the corner from where you work, you will still burn less gas on the drive that someone who drives a hybrid 70 miles one way.

Common sense. Want to save gas? Don't drive! It's not rocket science.

Oh, and America is all about hype. It's one thing we are still good at producing. And the funny part is, it's our biggest export, and the world can't get enough of it!

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Originally Posted by excon

Let's start with, the Democrats want to kill your grandma... Now, you don't have to like Democrats. You don't have to agree with Democrats... But, even you can't believe they're doing that...

So, any Republican who says that is dead wrong.

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All we've done is quote the people behind the "reform," like the president...

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Jane Sturm told the story of her nearly 100-year-old mother, who was originally denied a pacemaker because of her age. She eventually got one, but only after seeking out another doctor.

“Outside the medical criteria,” Sturm asked, “is there a consideration that can be given for a certain spirit … and quality of life?”

“I don’t think that we can make judgments based on peoples’ spirit,” Obama said. … “Maybe you’re better off not having the surgery, but taking painkillers.“

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Or this guy...

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Remember, our population is aging. And with the very, very elderly, the costs go down, so that percentage should be falling, and it’s not. Second, the cost of care is growing by so much, so at the same percentage, it’s worth a lot more. So let’s go back to the issue of comparative effectiveness, which we’re supporting. That’s where that can have a big impact. It’s not only there, but that’s where the waste is. That’s where people are using technologies that really either don’t work at all or keep people alive for for very limited [time] and [at] very high cost.

Hospice is one option, but we do need take account of the cost — you know,
I hate to say it, the cost-benefit of some of the things we do. And either we can do it directly, or we can do it by bundling the payments and let the delivery system deal with it. So it’s a combination of the delivery system dealing with it, or, and/or providing more information for people to make the right decisions, both for themselves and for the care.

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Originally Posted by andrewc24301

Exactly. This is about moving cars, if you really want to reduce your carbon foot print, don't drive. Walk. Move out of the subburbs and closer to your job. You can have an old truck that gets 10 mpg, if you live around the corner from where you work, you will still burn less gas on the drive that someone who drives a hybrid 70 miles one way.

Common sence. Wanna save gas? Don't drive! It's not rocket science.

Oh, and America is all about hype. It's one thing we are still good at producing. And the funny part is, it's our biggest export, and the world can't get enough of it!

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So... what do you do if you happen to live someplace like Texas or Nevada, or Indiana, where your job may be 40 miles away, and there's no reliable public transportation? How do you NOT drive in such a situation.

I love it when people come up with these "brilliant" solutions to not using oil. "Don't Drive". Some people don't have that option. Your brilliant solution doesn't work if there are no options.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello N0:

Let's start with, the Democrats wanna kill your grandma....

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As I have said in there past, the Dems don't want to kill her. They just don't want to save her. And both Obama and Ezekiel Emmanuel have said it publicly.

So it AIN'T false. It is in fact 100% true and demonstrable from the statements of the people who wrote and support the bill.

Next accusation of falsehood please...

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Jane Sturm told the story of her nearly 100-year-old mother, who was originally denied a pacemaker because of her age. She eventually got one, but only after seeking out another doctor.

“Outside the medical criteria,” Sturm asked, “is there a consideration that can be given for a certain spirit … and quality of life?”

“I don’t think that we can make judgments based on peoples’ spirit,” Obama said. … “Maybe you’re better off not having the surgery, but taking painkillers.“

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More republican falsehoods:
PolitiFact | Lungren says Obama would have government require a centenarian to get a pill, not a pacemaker

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

More republican falsehoods:
PolitiFact | Lungren says Obama would have government require a centenarian to get a pill, not a pacemaker

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NK, where did I say government would "require a centenarian to get a pill, not a pacemaker?" I didn't, I just quoted Obama's words as printed in ABC news, so don't portray me as spreading "Republican falsehoods."

If you can't take what the supporters, sponsors and the bill itself say for what it is that's not my problem. When Obama says AARP endorsed his plan and they haven't, that he plans on cutting Medicare and Medicaid spending by $500 billion while saying he won't cut benefits, that we will have choice when we won't, that he's never support single payer when he has, then you need to rethink where the falsehoods are coming from. In fact, he should be reported to the Whitehouse Un-american Activities Committee at [email protected].

Dude you are a lying SOB. That text does not occur in the ABC news transcript as per your post: Ask Me Help Desk - View Single Post - Cash for Clunkers works, so Republicans say Nooooo

I urge everyone to check it out. At no point does the text “Maybe you're better off not having the surgery, but taking painkillers.“ appear there. You added it in.

Absolutely pathetic.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Dude you are a lying SOB. That text does not occur in the ABC news transcript as per your post: Ask Me Help Desk - View Single Post - Cash for Clunkers works, so Republicans say Nooooo

I urge everyone to check it out. At no point does the text “Maybe you’re better off not having the surgery, but taking painkillers.“ appear there. You added it in.

Absolutely pathetic.

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By golly you caught me red handed... relying on an inaccurate or outdated link instead of the video.



You're such an a$$, more interested in destroying me than the veracity of the quote.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

By golly you caught me red handed...relying on an inaccurate or outdated link instead of the video.

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That's the edited video that you guys propagate, here's the complete one: YouTube - Obama to Jane Sturm take a pill (long version in context)

Now show where in the ABC link you posted does the text you quoted appear.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

That's the edited video that you guys propogate, here's the complete one: YouTube - Obama to Jane Sturm take a pill (long version in context)

Now show where in the ABC link you posted does the text you quoted appear.

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So... did he tell her to take a pill or not? Seems to me that he did, even in this longer "in context" version.

Or are you saying he never said it?

Face it, NK. You've been punk'd by your own words. Give it up now.

Elliot

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

That's the edited video that you guys propogate, here's the complete one: YouTube - Obama to Jane Sturm take a pill (long version in context)

Now show where in the ABC link you posted does the text you quoted appear.

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I guess you don't get the idea of an innocent mistake or understand the word veracity.

Speech, you and ET should consummate your relationship. :)

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

speech, you and ET should consummate your relationship. :)

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Unlike you, NK, neither Speech nor I go that way.

Oh I see - you're saying I'm a homosexual! Hahahahahahha! Got me there!

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Oh I see - you're saying I'm a homosexual! Hahahahahahha! Got me there!

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As opposed to you saying that Speech and I are homosexual?

Nahhh. That would be a sexual slurr.