Let me amend my analogy to the walking talking dead for you wingers.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Let me amend my analogy to the walking talking dead for you wingers.

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Tal... are you aware the "Walking dead" ARE Zombies?

Are you aware the wingers are walking talking zombies? Well maybe not Rush Limbaugh, all that wind bag does is talk.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Are you aware the wingers are walking talking zombies? Well maybe not Rush Limbaugh, all that wind bag does is talk.

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Give it up Tal... EVERYONE has seen Nancy Pelosi with her plastic face and Harry doing his best Zombie impersonation.

In fact no democrat has a working brain to think for themselves... they all do and think what they are told like robots.

The website-and obamacare was designed by a bunch of libtards that have NO clue how to run anything much less 1/6 of the economy.They need 7 million young people to sign up and pay for high priced health care or the whole thing crumbles !

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_n...insurance?lite

Now even NBC has a story that they knew all along that 16 million would be forced to loss their insurance and LIED

Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, “40 to 67 percent” of customers will not be able to keep their policy. And because many policies will have been changed since the key date, “the percentage of individual market policies losing grandfather status in a given year exceeds the 40 to 67 percent range.”

That means the administration knew that more than 40 to 67 percent of those in the individual market would not be able to keep their plans, even if they liked them.

Yet President Obama, who had promised in 2009, “if you like your health plan, you will be able to keep your health plan,” was still saying in 2012, “If [you] already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance.”

“This says that when they made the promise, they knew half the people in this market outright couldn't keep what they had and then they wrote the rules so that others couldn't make it either,” said Robert Laszewski, of Health Policy and Strategy Associates, a consultant who works for health industry firms. Laszewski estimates that 80 percent of those in the individual market will not be able to keep their current policies and will have to buy insurance that meets requirements of the new law, which generally requires a richer package of benefits than most policies today.
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I'm hearing that many with employer coverage will have their coverage cancelled. Just got word today that our meeting about next year's plan has been delayed until mid -November . Will keep you updated . I think I'm OK for now .

Obamacare just keeps getting better and better...

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Top Hospitals Opt Out of Obamacare
Americans who sign up for insurance on the state exchanges may not have access to the nation's top hospitals, Watchdog.org reports.

The Obama Administration has been claiming that insurance companies will be competing for your dollars under the Affordable Care Act, but apparently they haven't surveyed the nation's top hospitals.

Americans who sign up for Obamacare will be getting a big surprise if they expect to access premium health care that may have been previously covered under their personal policies. Most of the top hospitals will accept insurance from just one or two companies operating under Obamacare.

"This doesn't surprise me," said Gail Wilensky, Medicare advisor for the second Bush Administration and senior fellow for Project HOPE. "There has been an incredible amount of focus on the premium cost and subsidy, and precious little focus on what you get for your money."

Regulations driven by the Obama White House have indeed made insurance more affordable – if, like Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, you're looking only at price. But responding to Obamacare caps on premiums, many insurers will, in turn, simply offer top-tier doctors and hospitals far less cash for services rendered.

Watchdog.org looked at the top 18 hospitals nationwide as ranked by U.S. News and World Report for 2013-2014. We contacted each hospital to determine their contracts and talked to several insurance companies, as well.

The result of our investigation: Many top hospitals are simply opting out of Obamacare.

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But hey, the one percenters that wrote the law will still have the best care.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Obamacare just keeps getting better and better...



But hey, the one percenters that wrote the law will still have the best care.

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Well of course, they can pay for it, with or without insurance

I have been trying to pull your coat tail for a long time, and gave you the link to the Time Magazine article written by Steven Brill several times. Hospitals have been very selective of the insurance companies they deal with for decades, and with good reason because some are very hands on as to what a doctor can and cannot do and the cost they will bare.

Part of the ACA law is it caps your out of pocket expenses based on your income. This is a good thing for consumers, especially middle class and below wage earners. What, you thought those aspirins and pain killers, and toothpaste were free? The mark up is 10,000 percent, and they buy in bulk. That saline drip, they charge you up to 600 bucks for a 30 dollar bag. The insurance companies get a discount of course, But some want a better deal and they often clash. That's what the whole in network, out of network thing is about. And its no secret that hospitals have been cutting cost in anticipation of getting less federal money.

I guess you didn't see that in the Paul Ryan plan, and he certainly didn't tell you, but be very wary of what doctors, and insurance company's tell you because they are always talking about their revenue streams and really don't care how they realize them.

Why do you think they have to have itemized bills? Read yours and let me know if you need help getting your eyes put back after seeing a bill that makes them pop out. LOL, doesn't matter if you steal a few towels or not, you get charged for 'em like you bought 'em any way. Hell you can buy a silk collection of towels from MACY's a lot cheaper.

Read that article my friend, so you can get caught up to the reality of 2013 business practice and real market capitalism.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

I have been trying to pull your coat tail for a long time, and gave you the link to the Time Magazine article written by Steven Brill several times. Hospitals have been very selective of the insurance companies they deal with for decades, and with good reason because some are very hands on as to what a doctor can and cannot do and the cost they will bare.

Part of the ACA law is it caps your out of pocket expenses based on your income. This is a good thing for consumers, especially middle class and below wage earners. What, you thought those aspirins and pain killers, and toothpaste were free? The mark up is 10,000 percent, and they buy in bulk. That saline drip, they charge you up to 600 bucks for a 30 dollar bag. The insurance companies get a discount of course, But some want a better deal and they often clash. That's what the whole in network, out of network thing is about. And its no secret that hospitals have been cutting cost in anticipation of getting less federal money.

I guess you didn't see that in the Paul Ryan plan, and he certainly didn't tell you, but be very wary of what doctors, and insurance company's tell you because they are always talking about their revenue streams and really don't care how they realize them.

Why do you think they have to have itemized bills? Read yours and let me know if you need help getting your eyes put back after seeing a bill that makes them pop out. LOL, doesn't matter if you steal a few towels or not, you get charged for 'em like you bought 'em any way. Hell you can buy a silk collection of towels from MACY's a lot cheaper.

Read that article my friend, so you can get caught up to the reality of 2013 business practice and real market capitalism.

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Dude, stop shifting the blame. By now you should long have figured out we aren't the idiots you think we are.

OOOOkay!

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Dude, stop shifting the blame. By now you should long have figured out we aren't the idiots you think we are.

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Sorry Speech but I need more evidence, call me a little slow if you like

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Dude, stop shifting the blame. By now you should long have figured out we aren't the idiots you think we are.

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I don't think it is a problem of people being idiots. Isn't it a problem that there are so many people who are under insured or don't have insurance at all? If you only have a certain amount of disposable income to spend then you spend what you can afford on health insurance. You many not get the coverage that you would prefer, but under the circumstances it is the best you can do. It's a calculated gamble.

I would imagine that people who have even less disposable income tend to take bigger gambles in terms of their health security. I think it is a pointless exercise to point out to these people that they need to be more responsible when it comes to their health. They have very little security in other areas of life, so they are certainly not going to start with health insurance.

On this basis the popular argument that they need to do without cell phones, computers and other such 'luxury' items is an irrelevant point. I also think it shows how divorced from the plight of the poor one can be. It is an attitude; an attitude based on ones economic situation.

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Originally Posted by Tuttyd

I don't think it is a problem of people being idiots. Isn't it a problem that there are so many people who are under insured or don't have insurance at all? If you only have a certain amount of disposable income to spend then you spend what you can afford on health insurance. You many not get the coverage that you would prefer, but under the circumstances it is the best you can do. It's a calculated gamble.

I would imagine that people who have even less disposable income tend to take bigger gambles in terms of their health security. I think it is a pointless exercise to point out to these people that they need to be more responsible when it comes to their health. They have very little security in other areas of life, so they are certainly not going to start with health insurance.

On this basis the popular argument that they need to do without cell phones, computers and other such 'luxury' items is an irrelevant point. I also think it shows how divorced from the plight of the poor one can be. It is an attitude; an attitude based on ones economic situation.

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Tut, do you think these same insurance companies whose only concern is profit as the argument here goes, are going to sell their best plans at a third of the cost of the "junk" "bare bones" plans the customer wanted to keep?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Tut, do you think these same insurance companies whose only concern is profit as the argument here goes, are going to sell their best plans at a third of the cost of the "junk" "bare bones" plans the customer wanted to keep?

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Seems highly unlikely to me.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

OOOOkay!

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Dude, you can't expect people to work for nothing and when people see they're getting a bum deal from government regs they're going to find ways around it. You blame the providers instead of the government that forced their hand.

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Originally Posted by Tuttyd

Seems highly unlikely to me.

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That is the argument being made, therefore we must be idiots for not believing that's what they do.

I wonder how many of the people complaining about Insurance companies making a proifit work for free... or pay to work themselves?

Even charities and non-profits actually pay their workers and executives... some of them very generously.

And you can't pay anyone (or at least everyone) if your expenses exceed your revenue. And thats before considering shareholders...which expect a profit on their investment.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

That is the argument being made, therefore we must be idiots for not believing that's what they do.

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Yes, I gathered that aspect of the discussion. Not believing that seems like a pretty good inference to me. I think that goes without saying.

However, I was also interested in the claim that people who buy a certain types of policies are not idiots. They know what they want and they did it out of choice.

This is the bit I want to put under the microscope.

Just another idiot whose plan they liked got dropped to be replaced by a much better obamacare plan at nearly twice the price, double the copays and a huge increase on capped expenses...

Obamacare: Unfair to the young middle class, punished enough already - latimes.com