So just because MOST Americans want or don't want something doesn't make MOST Americans right.

Like the MOST Americans who voted for Obama?

Democrats (and I am still one but hanging by a thread because of issues like these) are already in deep "stuff". The Dems who are members of the majority that you say are wrong on this issue, will not support candidates who are in favor of "unwise" (per the president as I read what he said)
Do you know where all your reps and potential reps stand on this issue? I sure don't--Mine aren't talking. I wonder why?

No threat. I am in no position to make threats. I feel instead like I am threatened---My party (sorta) is handing long term control of America over to the other side on a silver platter.

Ex's constitutional stand may be best for American values but many of us will suffer for it for the rest of our lives, on many different fronts. It looked wrong at first glance and it and I haven't noticed one convert after all the discussions here. Maybe I missed it. I am tracking for and against numbers but after 84 pages I am getting buried I must admit.

As regards consideration of minority opinions, Jefferson said ""Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual."
Thomas Jefferson

So even the bill of rights could support the tyrants will.

We like to listen to the people who earn their living taking their best guess at what the founders intended to say. Maybe we should study what they said at the same time they were developing our constitution.

Be careful what you wish for, Boehner may give it to you. He's not my guy but he might be if Dems accept nonsense and ignore wisdom like the top dem recently did.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smearcase

So just because MOST Americans want or don't want something doesn't make MOST Americans right.

---

Hello again, smear:

The Constitution acts as a buffer against reactionary thought. That's because we don't make very good decisions when we're scared... I don't want to change THAT at all...

But, the founders didn't leave YOU out. IF MOST Americans want to change their Constitution, they CAN.

excon

Ex,

Thanks for the soundbites.

I look forward to your upcoming comments on Speaker Boehner's management of congress.

Maybe we will be able go to the mosque(s) for some sympathy but don't count on it.

When considering Jefferson we should all be thankful that he was on assignment in Paris at the time of the Constitutional debate. He clearly was anti-Federalist . Had he been at the Convention ;I don't believe we would have formed the government that we did.

Hello again, smear:

Didja read about the arson at the building site of the new mosque in Murfreesboro, Tn??

THOSE are the kinds of decisions we make when we're scared... Hmmm... I wonder if those arsonists grasped that THEY were the terrorists?? Nahh, they didn't.

I wonder if YOU grasp that THIS act of terrorism IS a result of the controversy in NY. Nahhh. You don't.

excon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smearcase

I feel instead like I am threatened---My party (sorta) is handing long term control of America over to the other side on a silver platter.

---

Close but I feel the problem started when your government started handing your country over to the corporations (both sides are guilty). The citizens has lost control, big biz is in charge whether you like it or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smear:

The Constitution acts as a buffer against reactionary thought. That's because we don't make very good decisions when we're scared... I don't wanna change THAT at all...

But, the founders didn't leave YOU out. IF MOST Americans want to change their Constitution, they CAN.

excon

---

Excon,

**greenie**

Xoxoxox

Synn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Close but I feel the problem started when your government started handing your country over to the corporations (both sides are guilty). The citizens has lost control, big biz is in charge whether you like it or not.

---

NK,

This is getting bad. That's TWO of these I've given out today!

**Greenie**

Xoxoxox

Synn

Karm, if I knew how I would give you a greenie too.

The outrages come so fast I can't keep up. But if I were to dwell on the corp. free speech issue I would have to throw in the towel.

We all know about the 1% controlling a majority of the wealth. Some say 20% control more than 90% of wealth, along with controlling all the pols they can buy.

I'll keep trying. There is no other choice.

These issues have one thing ( a lot more if I was smarter) in common. They both look wrong at (my) first glance and they don't improve with age.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smearcase

These issues have one thing ( a lot more if I was smarter) in common. They both look wrong at (my) first glance and they don't improve with age.

---

Hello again, smear:

We're no different. My knee jerks too. I have FIRST glances. I'm reactionary. I'm small-minded.

Then, after my knee STOPS jerking, and I have time to look at these issues through the prism of our Constitution, and our American ideas of tolerance, and acceptance, the issues DO IMPROVE with age for me. Sorry it doesn't happen that way for you.

By the way, it ALSO helps that I don't believe we're at war with Islam.

excon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smear:

Didja read about the arson at the building site of the new mosque in Murfreesboro, Tn???

THOSE are the kinds of decisions we make when we're scared... Hmmm... I wonder if those arsonists grasped that THEY were the terrorists???? Nahh, they didn't.

I wonder if YOU grasp that THIS act of terrorism IS a result of the controversy in NY. Nahhh. You don't.

excon

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First off lets get this straight. We don't know what really went on at the site of the new mosque. The only thing we know is that some equiptment was set on fire and only 1 of 4 was actually set on fire. For all we know it was done for insurance. So lets not start with the terrorism bandwagon just yet.


Ref:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...8D93.DTL&tsp=1

For all of those who call me a racist, let me point out to you that I'm not. I have friends of all ethnic groups, white, black, I don't care about skin color, I'm a generally nice person. The thing that angers me is that Islam is taking over THE WHOLE WORLD. Now, I don't care what religion people believe in, there's a thing called freedom of religion which is a good thing. BUT the problem is, the Muslims who are taking over Europe are not just practicing their religion, they pushing to get their way, which they are. They want Sharia law in the whole world, and we all know how brutal Sharia law is. Ever hear about women being stoned to death? Ever hear about non-muslims having their heads cut off? Yes, I'm well aware of the Crusades, and how millions of Muslims were killed, which is wrong. But, for the past 400 years or so, MOST Christians have softened. And Islam? It hasn't softened. It has only become more brutal. Today, Islam is taking over the whole world. It is the fastest growing religion and grows by about 280% every year. Europe is a going to be "Europai" in about 50 years. The Muslim leaders in Europe are abusing the laws in Europe. They are taking pork off school menus, etc.. AND they want ALL of Europe to have Sharia law. Do you see Christians and Jews forcing their laws on the Muslims living in Europe? No you don't. The European politicians silence anyone who talks trash about Islam, but they encourage all negative talk about Christianity and Jewdaism. European politicians all say that "Islam is such a peaceful religion and it's an honor to have them living in our great countries". How is it great? They attack police, make threats, burn your flags, and cause violent riots yelling "Allah Akabar" Sure, that is SO peaceful.

This happens EVERY DAY in Sweden. 75% of crime in Sweden is committed by non-ethnic Swedes, mainly Muslims.

DO STILL THINK ISLAM IS SO PEACEFUL?

WATCH THE WHOLE VIDEO. They clearly say that they are going to take over all of Belgium and make it an Islamic state. Which will probably happen sadly, because over 60% of new babies born in Belgium are Muslim. Where is this world going? For christ sake! The western world needs to wake up from their dream world and start fighting the spread of radical Islam. Islam is about world domination, it's not about Peace.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Close but I feel the problem started when your government started handing your country over to the corporations (both sides are guilty). The citizens has lost control, big biz is in charge whether you like it or not.

---

Not corporations... the 38% of the population that pay no federal taxes... yet freeload off the rest of us who DO pay them, and then sit there and whine they aren't getting enough free stuff they aren't paying for.

Sorry, but the percentages of lazy bums with Entitlement mentalities that think they are owed something they didn't earn and the so called "Rich" should be forced to pay for it... will how we say... "Be sh*t out of luck" when the people who are being sucked dry get fed up and refuse to contribute anything.

Or like so many jobs that are being shifted overseas... move their assets out of reach of the greedy leeches. And yeah... it can be done.

Between them, the Illegals that the left argues have a RIGHT to be here at the expense of those who actually pay taxes... or the Muslims who alone have a RIGHT to dictate what they will and won't do, while Christians don't have those rights... or the gun grabbers to don't believe in the 2nd amendment rights but think their 1st are infintate at the same time... doesn't lead to another Civil war in our lifetime. Because its rapidly approaching that point.

Muslims make a Claim its " to help smooth things over with the non-muslims" which is total Bulls*t because if they gave a damn at all, they would cater to everyone else's sensitivirties.

There is NO difference between a Mohammed Attah Memorial mosque... smoothing over tensions with non-muslims victims, friends, families etc of 9/11 and the Ku Klux Klan erecting a enternal Fire Burning Cross next to the Martin Luther King Memorial to smooth over racial tensions with the blacks who hate them. After all, the blacks have no more right to oject to that than us mere non-muslims do to the Victory Mosque.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Isafjordur

For all of those who call me a racist, let me point out to you that I'm not.The thing that angers me is that Islam is taking over THE WHOLE WORLD.

---

Hello again, I:

I have no idea if you're a racist, or not. What I DO wonder about is your absolute belief that this country is going to fall to Muslim demands... The ONLY way that is going to happen is if we DESTROY our own Constitution from whithin. That's what YOU want us to do...

That'll make Osama Bin Laden happy.

excon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by excon

Didja read about the arson at the building site of the new mosque in Murfreesboro, Tn??

THOSE are the kinds of decisions we make when we're scared... Hmmm... I wonder if those arsonists grasped that THEY were the terrorists?? Nahh, they didn't.

---

No, THOSE are the lone wolfs as I believe Obama likes to call them. For the most part the rest of us have behaved quite well, both sides in this case seem to concur on that.

Quote:

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"No threats, not at all," since the fire, Ayash told The Associated Press. "We've had a tremendous amount of calls of support." ...

"We in this community believe strongly in the rule of law, and choose to settle our disagreements through peaceful deliberations and discussion, not vigilantism.. . We who stand in opposition to this mosque have made our concerns known through proper legal channels and have conducted ourselves with dignity, respect and out of a spirit of love for our community, and we will continue to do so."

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WE aren't acting scared, WE are just exercising our rights, too, and I refuse to be lumped in with the terrorists.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

No, THOSE are the lone wolfs as I believe Obama likes to call them.

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Hello again, Steve:

So, they have to be ORGANIZED in order for us to call what they did TERRORISM?? Really?

excon

What about the Christian non-profit worker who stabbed the Muslim cab driver in NYC last week?

Smoothy--again, you go on about how Muslims have rights that Christians don't.

I don't see it. At all.

I still see "In God We Trust" on our money. Surely that's a CHRISTIAN right that no other religion has. I still hear "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. Isn't THAT a purely Christian thing?

I think it is as much sour grapes with Christians that the Moslims have as MUCH power as the Christians--not that they're trying to take everythign over any more than the Christians are.