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Originally Posted by talaniman

It is your responsibility to fact check everybody, for a reasonable discussion. Otherwise you come across as a dismissive arrogant hypocrite hiding behind a call for evidence that could well destroy any credibility on whatever point you make. Maybe a good way to hide ones agenda or intentions but a lousy way to foster healthy debate based on facts and not just feelings. Conservatives can't own the libs in such a climate, but it's fun to watch your heads explode from the confusion of your own ideology which appears to be supporting a lying cheating loser who was booted from the WH by the people after repubs failed to act twice.

Fact check that.

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Glad to see you back, talaniman.

Your post here is a perfect description of how Jl operates. I would only add that he DOES do google searches when confronted and he DOES click on links when challenged. The difference is that he decides if the search/link supports his position or if he can somehow find a word or phrase that he can deflect with. Failing that, he claims NOT to have searched/linked so he has no responsibility for finding the facts (and denies those facts). Not as tricky as he thinks.

Cop shootings generally result in the cop being placed on suspension for some period of time while the shooting is investigated. It usually results in the policeman being rightly cleared as in the case of the Michael Brown shooting. Several investigations came to the same conclusion of self-defense (including Obama's DOJ) while BLM led riots destroyed millions of dollars worth of private and public property.

Between Tom's spin, and your inadequate cherry picking, you illustrate the conservative disconnect with reality. Running in circles has consequences. Google Rochester cop killing and see the lies and cover up by the police. Imagine the shooting of citizens across the country by the cops without video evidence, and just have the cops word for what happened. SCARY to say the least.

The sad part is I know even conservatives are against bad cops.

So how are the 10 Repubs who voted to impeach Trump fairing this primary cycle ?

Tuesday in SC ;Tom Rice was crushed in a primary by state Rep Russell Fry who ran with a Trump endorsement .

Reps. Adam Kinzinger of Illinois(who along with Liz Cheney is on the kangaroo court ), John Katko of New York, Fred Upton of Michigan and Anthony Gonzalez of Ohio have announced their plans to retire rather than face defeat ......based on their constituents reaction to the impeachment vote.

Washington Reps. Dan Newhouse and Jaime Herrera Beutler ;and Michigan Rep. Peter Meijer face Trump endorsed challengers August 2.

California Rep. David Valadao is in 2nd place in his district ,in a weirdo state system where the 2 top vote getters in the primaries face off in the general election regardless of their party . Valadao did not face a Trump-backed opponent.

Wyoming Rep Liz Cheney is facing off against Trump backed Harriet Hageman. Cheney is currently behind in polls . She claims that besides the fact that she is out to get Trump, that she is a consistent conservative . That is a true statement. But so was Tom Rice . The deciding factor was his vote to impeach Trump.

I am not an enthusiastic Trump supporter, but I did appreciate what the country was able to do under his admin. To vote in favor of impeachment was a questionable move at best. He plainly had done nothing deserving impeachment.

one survey released last week found Cheney trailing her top opponent Hageman by 28 points.
Liz Cheney at Risk of Losing Her Seat in Congress (newsweek.com)

Yes I endorse Trumpism as it is called .

Liz Cheney is a swamp critter . The Cheney name has been associated with DC insider politics since 1969 when her father joined Don Rumsfeld's staff .He became a Rep in 1979 after serving various functions in the Executive Branch.

It is not surprising that she opposed Trump . Her animosity towards him comes from his crude rhetoric about her father's neo-con interventionist policies .

I wouldn't say this is 100% accurate, but it's close enough. How far we have fallen!
Attachment 49375

Last week a gang of operatives hired by mediocre comic turned political satirist Steven Colbert broke into the Capitol Building . Surely you have heard of this coup attempt . No ? It was briefly mentioned at the time but has largely been forgotten. They were arrested by the Capitol Police (none were shot and killed for the illegal entry) .

Why were they there ? Their goal was to stalk and harass lawmakers at the urging of Rep Adam Shiffhead and two other Dem Reps who lead them in this after hours "tour " .Oh what great fun!! They banged on the office door of Rep. Lauren Boebert.

Two ranking Reps from the GOP have asked the Capitol Police and the IG for video footage of the break in and witness statements .
January 2022 Rep. Rodney Davis Letter to USCP Inspector General (pogo.org)

They better not hold their breath.

The operatives were very briefly detained before being released . None of them to my knowledge were subject to extended arrest ,held in isolation for months or had their home doors forcibly opened by pre-dawn raiding FBI agents .None have been denied bail . To my knowledge none are charged with any crime. Allegedly they will appear in local DC court next month not subject to any Federal charges .

Navy Reservist Hatchet Speed should be so lucky.

WarrantGeneratorHatchet Speed.pdf (justice.gov)

Speed entered the Capitol on Jan 6 after the joint session of Congress recessed . Capitol police were chatting with protesters. Speed walked around the Rotunda and exited in less than an hour . Speed didn’t carry a weapon , assault police officers ,or even bang on the office doors of members of Congress.But Speed will most likely plea guilty to parading in the Capitol and will do jail time .

An assistant AG during the end of Trump's term Jeffrey Clark was arrested by the FBI this week . His home was raided and he was forcefully removed from his home in his pajamas . They then seized all his electronic equipment . The raid was reported to the compliant press which in turn made sure it was breaking news just before the Thursday Jan 6 Committee hearings began. Clark's alleged assist of Trump's "coup" was the subject of the day's hearing .Nah no coordination between the Justice Dept and the Congressional Dems there. Neither is the fact that multiple subpoenas were issued Wednesday right before the hearing began.

Jan. 6 probe expands with new subpoenas focused on false electors - The Washington Post

Charges were dropped against Steven Colbert's crew . A spokesman for the U.S. attorney’s office said it was not probable a conviction could be obtained and sustained given that the nine arrested had been invited and that their escorts had never asked them to leave the building.

The escorts were Adam Schiffhead's staffers .

Contrast the treatment of Colbert's crew with Pamela Hemphill; a 69 year old grandma with cancer who went to prison this week to serve a 2 month sentence for her participation of Jan 6.

67 year old Darrel Kennemer had his house raided by 100 FBI agents last month . In the pre-dawn hours they busted through his gate . Startled and awakened from sleep he went for his rifle and stepped out on his porch in his skivvies . The agents told him to drop the rifle . He asked to see their warrant. They threw flash bang grenades at him and then put lazer sites on him and demanded he drop the rifle . He and his wife were cuffed and taken away.....but not arrested . They were detained without an arrest for several hours while the agents searched the home . They seized cell phones and Trump paraphernalia. The couple was released without charges .

What did Darrel Kennemer do to deserve such treatment ? He was near the Capitol on Jan 6.

It's far too reminiscent of the Nazi days when people were just arrested and then disappeared. Every person in this country should be outraged at these events, but for many it's OK since, after all, Trump is the target. Well, next month it could very well be you.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

It's far too reminiscent of the Nazi days when people were just arrested and then disappeared. Every person in this country should be outraged at these events, but for many it's OK since, after all, Trump is the target. Well, next month it could very well be you.

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Very true, authoritarian fascism is alive and well and fully ensconced in the US Law Enforcement system, far detached from the notion of Serve and Protect the citizenry...
This has been going on for many years, separate from whoever is running the country, a law unto themselves, literately.

contrast the treatment mentioned above with the arrest of Congressional Rep All Out Crazy who was led away from a pro-baby killing protest on the Capitol ;arrested complete with fake handcuffs . At one point as she was being gently led away she gave it away when she removed her fake hand cuffs long enough to raise her fist to the crowd . Then she put her hand back in the fake cuffs .

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYDoLZfX...jpg&name=small

There is much fake about AOC.

yes she is an Instagram star

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYNALBTX...jpg&name=small

https://scontent-atl3-2.xx.fbcdn.net...fw&oe=62E1C771

This is classic D.C. political talk. Note that it was "suggested" that something "may have" taken place. In other words, we don't know anything.

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Cheney said at the end of the June 28 hearing that the committee obtained evidence suggesting Trump's team may have tried to tamper with witness testimony, which is a crime.

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"Yes, members of the jury, I can unequivocally suggest that the accused may have committed this crime." It would be laughed out of any court other than the kangaroo variety.

Jan. 6 Hearings: Trump Tried To Contact Committee Witness, Cheney Says (forbes.com)

Attachment 49406

Everyone needs a little laugh from time to time.
Attachment 49407

Today is the 2nd anniversary of the January 6 2021 protest .

Today in DC; ,Micki Witthoeft ,while holding a memorial service for her daugher Ashli Babbett ( who was murdered by Capitol Police officer Michael Byrd ),was arrested .......for jay walking .

Turns out we've had the date wrong all this time.

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"If I can halt for a second and just say to you the impact what happened on July 6 had international repercussions beyond what I think any of you can fully understand," Biden said.

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We can't understand the repercussions anyway.

That was 2 days after his Independence Day bender .He couldn't tell you any "international repercussions " if he were reading them off a teleprompter .

He's right though . July 6 was the day the US withdrew from Bagram Air base Afghanistan leaving an airport in downtown Kabul as the only way to complete US withdrawal from the country.As a result of that fateful decision 13 US Marines and more than a thousand Afghanis died when a bomb exploded during the US chaotic final withdrawal from Kaubul

Once the US did a cut and run ;the Afghan army concluded it was also time to cut and run. The Taliban swifty took over the country.

The Kremlin noticed .

One month later Nikolai Patrushev ;the head of Russian security noted :

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In his opinion, Ukraine is heading towards dissolution and at some point, the US won’t even remember its supporters much like what happened in Kabul. "Did the fact that Afghanistan having the status of a main US ally outside of NATO save the ousted pro-American regime in Kabul? A similar situation awaits those who are banking on America in Ukraine where neo-Nazis are capable of taking power, the country is going to disintegrate, and the White House at a certain moment won’t even remember its supporters in Kiev," the security chief explained.

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Press review: Patrushev says Afghan fate awaits Ukraine and error cuts EU gas prices - Press Review - TASS

So yeah July 6th had international repercussions . It was clearly in Putin's mind when he was considering an invasion into Ukraine .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

It was clearly in Putin's mind when he was considering an invasion into Ukraine .

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Now Biden is responsible for the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

At long last, have you no shame, Tomder?

There is no doubt that Clueless goaded Putin into the invasion . On top of a perceived lack of commitments to American allies when things got tough , Clueless signaled to Putin that a limited action on the Donbas would be acceptable and that our response would be proportional.

If Putin was going to invade Ukraine for the purpose of regime change he would've done so after the US helped stage a coup ;the so called 'Orange Revolution ' against the Russophile regime of Viktor Yanukovych . That was when a pro-western regime was installed . Besides Putin's seizing of Crimea to protect the Russian naval base there ,there was no evidence that Putin had any design on Ukraine until there was apparent moves by the west to fast track Ukraine's admittance into NATO .

The perception of weakness and lack of resolve is a dangerous event. Ask the French after Hitler reoccupied the Rhineland in 36. There are many who believe that if the French and British had moved aggressively to prevent Hitler's move, he would have withdrawn in political embarrassment. They did not, and World War 2 proved to be not far away.

Of course Biden is not spelled T-R-U-M-P, so what he did was fine with the TDS crowd.

Tom, I hope you'll post something about the Speaker of the House vote that's ongoing.

Correction. That was ongoing until early this morning.

Well what do you know ? The lead investigator for the Kangaroo court Tim Heaphy has disclosed that the committee excluded a key finding in the final report. He blames Trump's words ;but he gives a major hat tip to law enforcement failures .

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That said, what happened at the Capitol was also affected by law enforcement failures to operationalize the ample intelligence that was present before Jan. 6, about the threats of violence.”
“Law enforcement had a very direct role in contributing to the security failures that led to the violence,"

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Top Jan. 6 investigator says FBI, other agencies could have done more to repel Capitol mob had they acted on intel (nbcnews.com)

The committee white washed that part of the findings.

There was a lot of advance intelligence about law enforcement, about carrying weapons, about the vulnerability of the Capitol,” Heaphy said. “The intel in advance was pretty specific, and it was enough, in our view, for law enforcement to have done a better job.”

It's almost like Madam Mimi wanted the riot to happen

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The committee white washed that part of the findings.

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There was no white wash. The Committee rightly focused where the focus belonged - on the criminal in the White House who planned the insurrection.

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on the criminal in the White House who planned the insurrection.

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A completely false statement for which there is no shred of evidence. It is even an open question as to whether the event can be intelligently referred to as an "insurrection".

January 6 Timeline
https://www.npr.org/2022/01/05/10699...-what-and-when

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

January 6 Timeline
https://www.npr.org/2022/01/05/10699...-what-and-when

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Great timeline!

Along with the Jan 6 Committee evidence, it proves that Trump organized and incited what is a classic definition of an insurrection. So many unhinged Republicans, basically co-conspirators and co-insurrectionists, will continue to be election deniers and insurrection deniers even faced with incontrovertible documentary audio and visual evidence.

The issue is no longer about politics, it is about sanity. Mental instability. The likes of Greene, Gaetz, and Santos - and many others - are now at the highest elective levels in the nation. These individuals do not have the mental acuity to perform the duties of their office. THIS IS NOT HYPERBOLE, IT IS THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH.

Jewish lasers from space
100% falsified resume
Child molestation

These are only a smidgen coming from the most bizarre Republicans.

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Originally Posted by Athos

Jewish lasers from space
100% falsified resume
Child molestation

These are only a smidgen coming from the most bizarre Republicans.

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Plus
wonton killings (Boebert)
peach tree dishes (Greene)
gazpacho police (Greene)

I kept looking for the place on the timeline where it said Trump planned the demonstration which has been incorrectly referred to as an insurrection. Perhaps you can point that place out.

People need to learn that their personal opinions do not amount to real evidence.

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The issue is no longer about politics, it is about sanity. Mental instability. The likes of Greene, Gaetz, and Santos - and many others - are now at the highest elective levels in the nation.

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And then there is Biden!! Oh brother. And then throw in AOC and the Squad.

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incontrovertible documentary audio and visual evidence.

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Where is the evidence that incontrovertibly proves the demonstration was an insurrection?

Thanks for the biased timeline . If anything it confirms what lead investigator Tim Heaphy for the Kangaroo court said about the lack of resources when Madam Mimi and DC Mayor Muriel Bowser knew of potential problems. During the BLM protests a gnat could not have penetrated the Capitol defenses .

The timeline does not mention this from Trump's address;

"I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard,"

That doesn't sound like a call to insurrection to me.

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Protesters break windows and climb into the Capitol. They open doors for others to follow.

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The US Capitol Police Force is under fire for the way it handled Wednesday's insurrection at Capitol Hill, as officers were filmed taking selfies with rioters and appearing to help them move back barricades and open doors.

Capitol Building Officers Posed for Selfies, Helped Protesters (businessinsider.com)

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A Capitol Police officer shoots Ashli Babbitt as she tries to climb through the doors. She later dies of her injuries.

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The only firearm discharged during the riot was fired point blank at Ashli Babbitt by Lt. Michael Byrd . Byrd had a history of improper handling of a gun having previously left his Glock 22 unattended in a bathroom in the Capitol Visitor Center complex .Unlike a gun with a traditional safety, a Glock 22 will fire if the trigger is pulled.

His careless gun safety measures made him a poor choice to be an officer in charge of guarding the Capitol .His point blank shooting of unarmed Babbit would've been dealt with differently if she was at a "mostly peaceful" protester during the Floyd riots . There would've been an arrest and trial of him by now .

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4:17 p.m.

Trump does not go on TV. Instead, he tweets a video talking to his supporters inside the Capitol.
"I know your pain. I know your hurt," he begins. "We love you. You're very special. You've seen what happens. You've seen the way others are treated. ... I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace."

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Of course he Tweeted .Most times the compliant press did not even bother carrying his addresses . In addition ,anyone inside the Capitol would not have seen a television address .But many of them were on Twitter and other social media while the riot was occurring .

He can rightfully be fauluted for taking too long to make that statement .

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There was no white wash

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Heaphy said law enforcement agencies could have prevented the Jan. 6 attack; that the FBI and DHS had important intel but failed to act on it; that the Kangaroo court downplayed law enforcement's role in the riot.

Sounds like he is accusing them of a white wash to me.


Mattathias Schwartz , a senior correspondent at Insider, is sounding the white wash charge as well .

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The legislation establishing it directed the committee to report on the entire set of "facts, circumstances, and causes" surrounding the January 6, 2021 attack on the Capitol.

And on that measure, it failed. By focusing almost exclusively on the role that Trump and his acolytes played in fomenting the riot, the committee has deprived the public of the best possible understanding of exactly what happened that day, why no one anticipated it, and why it wasn't stopped by the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security, and others charged with protecting the Capitol from dangers foreign and domestic.

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The Jan. 6 Committee's Narrow Focus on Trump Let the FBI and DHS Off the Hook (businessinsider.com)

He documents concerns Mark Warner the head of the Senate Intel committee had on Jan 4 that he relayed to the FBI .

A week after the riot ,the Compost reported that the FBI knew of potential violence on Jan 5 ,the day before the riot .

FBI report warned of 'war' at Capitol, contradicting claims there was no indication of looming violence - The Washington Post

Schwartz writes ;

The January 6 report makes a complicated argument to absolve the security establishment of responsibility for permitting the attack, one that hinges on surprise.

Sounds like a white wash of the truth to me .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The timeline does not mention this from Trump's address;

"I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard,"

That doesn't sound like a call to insurrection to me.

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He sure fooled them, didn't he! They noisily rioted and insurrected like they'd been encouraged to all morning into the afternoon. He'd implied and even said "we", making them think he'd be at their head, he'd be leading them. And where was Trump in the afternoon when the mob got really energetic? He was in the WH, eagerly watching the insurrection on tv.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

And where was Trump in the afternoon when the mob got really energetic? He was in the WH, eagerly watching the insurrection on tv.

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All around him were begging him to do SOMETHING, anything to stop the violence. But Trump just sat there for HOURS, gleefully watching the chaos on TV and cackling like a madman. When it became apparent the insurrection had failed, Trump then went on video and asked for "peace".

Still not addressing the point that the lead investigator for the committee said the Kangaroo court covered up some key facts related to the fact that security was intentionally neglected for the Capitol.

They knew there was a threat . That decision was made by MayorBowser and Madam Mimi to turn down offers by the President to have a significant National Guard presence there .

3300 Guard troops were in DC for the BLM protest . 7500 Guard troops were in DC to assist law enforcement for the p-ssy hat protests at Trump's inauguration . The breach on Jan 6 happened because the Dems wanted it to happen.

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He sure fooled them, didn't he! They noisily rioted and insurrected like they'd been encouraged to all morning into the afternoon.

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Just a plainly false statement. Trump never encouraged anyone to riot or carry out an insurrection. If you want to still claim he did, then finding the video or text of this alleged behavior should be simple. Post it.

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He was in the WH, eagerly watching the insurrection on tv.

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Comments like this make this site tiresome. You have no evidence at all to support the underlined portion of your claim. It's just a raw hatred of Trump that causes these kinds of hateful speculations. This complete disregard for the truth gets very old.

Ditto for this nonsense.

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But Trump just sat there for HOURS, gleefully watching the chaos on TV and cackling like a madman.

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• President Donald Trump took several hours to respond to the insurrection at the Capitol last Wednesday despite numerous pleas from staff, advisors, and members of his family.
• A new report from The Washington Post says Trump was too busy watching the insurrection unfold on TV [FOX News] to do anything to quell it.
• "He was hard to reach, and you know why? Because it was live TV. If it's TiVo, he just hits pause and takes the calls," one Trump advisor told The Post.
• Sen. Lindsey Graham said Trump was also reluctant to do anything because "he saw these people as allies in his journey and sympathetic to the idea that the election was stolen."
• https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...k-place-2021-1
• Former White House officials such as Kayleigh McEnany and Pat Cipollone said Trump was holed up in the dining room next to the Oval Office as the attack unfolded. According to Cipollone, who served as White House counsel, images of the violence unfolding were on the screen as Trump watched.
• https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...m-video-2022-7
• https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jXM6h9elyTY

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Just a plainly false statement. Trump never encouraged anyone to riot or carry out an insurrection. If you want to still claim he did, then finding the video or text of this alleged behavior should be simple. Post it.

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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55640437

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work...f2ba65890acdf6

You presented nothing to show that Trump was gleefully watching the demonstration on 1/6. You presented nothing to show that Trump encouraged anyone to carry out an insurrection. Just posting disjointed links does not help your cause.