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Thus, Derek Chauvin is guilty of murdering George Floyd by kneeling on his neck for 9 minutes and 29 seconds.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I didn't say they were, but they do follow federal guidelines. Reagan was a Republican.Quote:
State mental institutions are not controlled by the feds. And your reference to Reagan is simply wrong.
It's in a court of law where it should be. I'm not sure that was the cause of death, but if it was, then he is guilty.Quote:
Thus, Derek Chauvin is guilty of murdering George Floyd by kneeling on his neck for 9 minutes and 29 seconds.
So?Quote:
Reagan was a Republican.
You were damning liberals.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Reagan was not responsible for this mess. That largely occurred twenty or thirty years before.
Besides all of that, most of these mass shooters were by no means active mental health patients. Most of them, it seems to me, come from dysfunctional family situations which is yet another result of the general drift towards godlessness in our country.
What occurred???Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
There's no mental illness in "godly" families and thus no shootings or other mayhem. Gotcha! (Oh, do I have true stories to tell you that will give you nightmares!)Quote:
Besides all of that, most of these mass shooters were by no means active mental health patients. Most of them, it seems to me, come from dysfunctional family situations which is yet another result of the general drift towards godlessness in our country.
I posted it earlier. You didn't bother to read it. https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showth...73#post3867273Quote:
What occurred???
Who said there wasn't? Why do you keep making these things up?Quote:
There's no mental illness in "godly" families and thus no shootings or other mayhem. Gotcha!
Okay. 1955. Eisenhower, a Republican.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Deinstitutionalization began in 1955 with the widespread introduction of chlorpromazine, commonly known as Thorazine, the first effective antipsychotic medication, and received a major impetus 10 years later with the enactment of federal Medicaid and Medicare.
Godliness isn't going to make us all civilized. That won't happen until the next life.Quote:
Who said there wasn't? Why do you keep making these things up?
So you make up something about Eisenhower, and then completely ignore this. Am I surprised? No.Quote:
1955. Eisenhower, a Republican.
"While President Trump and others have claimed a connection exists between mental illness and the rise in gun violence, most mental health professionals vehemently disagree."There is no real connection between an individual with a mental health diagnosis and mass shootings. That connection according to all experts doesn't exist," says Bethany Lilly of the Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law."
It does give me great amusement to see that you have allied yourself with Trump.
You need to read this. How Christianity Changed the WorldQuote:
Godliness isn't going to make us all civilized.
You don't read the newspapers and listen to the tv news about mass murderers' motives. Should I make a list? All the deadly school shootings that happened since Columbine were because the shooters hadn't gotten dessert after dinner or just didn't like young kids. No mental illness. Got it!Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
To you and Donald Trump I will simply repeat this. "...most mental health professionals vehemently disagree."There is no real connection between an individual with a mental health diagnosis and mass shootings. That connection according to all experts doesn't exist," says Bethany Lilly of the Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law."Quote:
You don't read the newspapers and listen to the tv news about mass murderers' motives. Should I make a list? All the deadly school shootings that happened since Columbine were because the shooters hadn't gotten dessert after dinner or just didn't like young kids. No mental illness. Got it!
Quote:
A very foolish and simplistic rendering of a very serious problem.Quote:
All the deadly school shootings that happened since Columbine were because the shooters hadn't gotten dessert after dinner or just didn't like young kids. No mental illness. Got it!
This re the Chauvin trial of murdering Floyd. A bizarro statement. If you're "not sure", what are you not sure of? What are you sure of? What do you think the cause of death was? As far as I can tell, you are the only one on the entire planet who is not sure of the cause of death. Buy a television or a newspaper.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Huh. Looks like there are others after all.
"KASTE: Well, clarity is what the prosecution was hoping for today. They have a bit of a problem because the language on George Floyd's death certificate is open to interpretation. The cause of death is the following - quote, "cardiopulmonary arrest, complicating law enforcement subdural restraint and neck compression. The certificate also gives contributing factors such as heart disease, fentanyl intoxication and recent meth use.So today we heard from the man responsible for the words on the death certificate, Andrew Baker, the chief medical examiner for Hennepin County. And he talked about how contributing factors, such as Floyd's heart disease, combined with all that adrenaline that was rushing through Floyd's body."
"CHANG: OK, so it sounds like he's saying police did cause Floyd's death but with the help of other medical factors?
KASTE: Yeah, so I think what's important to point out here is that the prosecutors did not put him on the stand first. Instead, they started the day with another forensic pathologist, Lindsey Thomas. She used to work in Hennepin County. And she said she agreed with the official cause of death, but she interpreted it this way."
In the interest of fairness, it goes on to say, "LINDSEY THOMAS: What it means to me is that the activities of the law enforcement officers resulted in Mr. Floyd's death and that, specifically, those activities were the subdural restraint and the neck compression."
Note the expression, "What it means to me..." Hardly a hard and fast statement.
https://www.npr.org/2021/04/09/98586...vins-murder-tr
Your anti-police bias is showing itself.
And if I died while police were sitting on me and kneeling on my neck for ten minutes, the cause of death would be aplastic anemia?
I have no idea and neither do you. I tell you what mental health professionals say about mass shootings and you just blow it off since you think you and Trump are smarter than them. Now I tell you what a med examiner said and evidently you are smarter than him as well. How impressive.
Those medical professionals were skating, as you well know. Reread their comments and notice their hedging.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
The mental health professionals were skating? Well, let's post the passage again. "...most mental health professionals vehemently disagree."There is no real connection between an individual with a mental health diagnosis and mass shootings. That connection according to all experts doesn't exist," says Bethany Lilly of the Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law."Quote:
Those medical professionals were skating, as you well know. Reread their comments and notice their hedging.
But as I said, you and DT apparently know better.
As to the med examiner, you don't "skate" when you are under oath in a high profile trial.
I've found that this seems to be your MO when the facts don't agree with you. You start resorting to "skating" and "hedging". In other words, "Don't pay attention to what they say. Pay attention to what WG says." Sorry, but I don't like that option. I'll stick with the pros.
No, there are not. Under cross, Medical Examiner Baker testified that those things ( drug use, heart problems, narrowed arteries ) were NOT the primary cause of death. Kaste is not a witness. He's a reporter.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Chang was a policeman at the scene. According to your own quote by the reporter, Chang said the police DID cause Floyd's death. In any case, Chang is not qualified to say what the cause of death was.Quote:
"CHANG: OK, so it sounds like he's saying police did cause Floyd's death but with the help of other medical factors?
Could it be any clearer what she testified the cause of death was?Quote:
LINDSEY THOMAS: What it means to me is that the activities of the law enforcement officers resulted in Mr. Floyd's death and that, specifically, those activities were the subdural restraint and the neck compression."
Another glaring example of your inability to process the meaning of language.Quote:
Note the expression, "What it means to me..." Hardly a hard and fast statement.
To you, facts disputing whatever your contention is, are the result of bias.Quote:
Your anti-police bias is showing itself.
Matter of opinion. It was far from being a definite statement.Quote:
Another glaring example of your inability to process the meaning of language.
Quote:
Your anti-police bias is showing itself.
If you had any it would be helpful.Quote:
To you, facts disputing whatever your contention is, are the result of bias.
It's not a "matter of opinion". It's right there in black and white. "What it means to me" means "What-it-means-to-me"! Nothing could be more "definite"!Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Good Lord. I just gave you facts - one in your own words!Quote:
If you had any it would be helpful.
The statement is clear that several factors contributed to the mans death. The actions of chauvin head the list but he was not the only factor.
So you're saying he would have died right there no matter what, even if the police weren't on site.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
How in the world did you come up with that? The testimony seems to be that if not for several underlying med conditions, he likely would have survived. Does that excuse Chauvin's actions? No, and that's why I say I am content to let the trial play out.Quote:
So you're saying he would have died right there no matter what.
Here's how you and I are different. I appreciate what those cops in blue do for me. They have an unspeakably difficult job and they deserve our undying appreciation and love. So when one does something that looks questionable, I don't jump all over that person just to validate my liberal dem creds like you seem to do. I believe in giving the cop due process. I mourn over a person killed for no good reason AND for a cop whose life is basically over. That's how we are different. If Chauvin is guilty, and he does seem to be, then it's a tragedy on several different levels. You seem to view these cases as nothing but an opportunity to show everyone how liberal you are.
That was completely rejected by witnesses during cross examination and by direct testimony in the first phase of the trial by prosecution witnesses. Saying several factors contributed to the man's death is like saying being born contributed to the man's death. We all die eventually so living is a contributing factor since it leads to death.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I repeat - nobody but you is unsure of the cause of death of Floyd.
Yeah. Me and the medical examiner.
I'll just repeat what I've said. I find nothing to rejoice in with this case as you seem to. It's all unspeakably tragic, both the death of George Floyd, and the extreme going astray of Chauvin. I mourn that he will have to spend most of the rest of his life in jail. So I'm not going to try and turn it into a cheap, pathetic political statement just to prove some liberal bona fides the way you seem so eager to do. Perhaps I have misread that. I hope so. At any rate, I love the police and treasure them. I can sleep securely at night because they are willing to risk their lives to keep all of us safe. I am THRILLED to give them both the benefit of the doubt and due process. If one of them is guilty, then so be it, but if it doesn't tear your heart, then your heart is not right.
SEEMS TO BE? SEEMS?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Not a single witness testified that Floyd likely would have survived if not for several underlying med conditions. NOT ONE! You're making this up out of whole cloth. And you have the temerity to call me and others liars! You are pathetic.
What a bunch of hogwash! You can't deal with the facts opposing everything you've said so you go back to your old standby - blame the liberal Dems no matter the issue. You are some piece of work - predictable as always.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Deleted disparaging insulting remarks!
JL, please allow a 154-pound man to kneel on your neck for 9 minutes 29 seconds while your hands are cuffed behind your back and you are lying facedown on a parking lot.
ah, you've been there! Saturday night at the Blue oyster bar and grill.Quote:
JL, please allow a 154-pound man to kneel on your neck for 9 minutes 29 seconds while your hands are cuffed behind your back and you are lying facedown on a parking lot.
.Doesn't get much plainer than this. I'm not saying he's right, but your claim is plainly false.Quote:
Not a single witness testified that Floyd likely would have survived if not for several underlying med conditions. NOT ONE! You're making this up out of whole cloth. And you have the temerity to call me and others liars! You are pathetic
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/14/us/de...-13/index.htmlQuote:
(CNN)Maryland's former chief medical examiner testified for Derek Chauvin's defense on Wednesday that George Floyd died due to his underlying heart disease -- not the police restraint.
"In my opinion, Mr. Floyd had a sudden cardiac arrhythmia, or cardiac arrhythmia, due to his atherosclerosis and hypertensive heart disease ... during his restraint and subdual by the police," said Dr. David Fowler, a forensic pathologist who retired as Maryland's chief medical examiner at the end of 2019.
Floyd had narrowed coronary arteries, known as atherosclerosis, and an enlarged heart due to his high blood pressure, or hypertension, Fowler said. Floyd's fentanyl and methamphetamine use and a tumor known as a paraganglioma were other significant conditions that contributed to his death, he said.
I realize you guys are enjoying your opportunity to crucify a police officer. I just don't get that pleasure.
WG, try being a policeman for a week and then get back with us. I feel very certain your view of the world, and of the police, will change enormously. Your behavior about this is what I find disappointing. You have lived your entire life under the protection of cops who risk life and limb everyday, and yet you get such glee out of this opportunity to give a legal beat down to a policeman.Quote:
JL, please allow a 154-pound man to kneel on your neck for 9 minutes 29 seconds while your hands are cuffed behind your back and you are lying facedown on a parking lot.
no they are crucifying a murderer
If you don't think the key factor in this trial is the fact that Chauvin was a police officer, then you need a lot of help. That is the ONLY reason it is a national storym, and it is the ONLY reason liberal dems have even one ounce of interest in this tragedy.Quote:
no they are crucifying a murderer
No, the key factor in this case is the excessive force by cops causing death caught on camera!!!
I have been closely involved with them, as part of one of my psych internships. Chauvin is a little man who was intimidated by a bigger Black man who may not have even known that $20 was counterfeit. Who examines the bills in their wallet to check for counterfeit? AND, was it ever proven to be counterfeit, or was just the clerk's supposition?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Would YOU have realized that $20 wasn't the real thing?
How many patrols did you go on? How many arrests did you participate in?Quote:
I have been closely involved with them, as part of one of my psych internships.
And you know this how?Quote:
Chauvin is a little man who was intimidated by a bigger Black man who may not have even known that $20 was counterfeit.
I have no idea. I do know that when the police say you are under arrest, then you are under arrest. If you resist, it's not good. But yet again, that's why it has gone to trial. We'll see what the jury decides. I'll live with it either way, regardless of how much Maxine Waters encourages violence, and regardless of how disappointed it seems you will be to not be able to put a cop in jail if he is found innocent.Quote:
Who examines the bills in their wallet to check for counterfeit? AND, was it ever proven to be counterfeit, or was just the clerk's supposition?
I don't think DC is guilty of second degree murder. I'm not saying he is not responsible in some way for GF's death, but I don't see how it amounts to second degree murder. I don't see how you can show that DC intended for GF to die. Manslaughter?? That sounds reasonable.
It was standard procedure...It is no longer in the rule book.Quote:
no they are crucifying a murderer
I've been in similar situations. Had our boy Floyd, not Resisted, crying , fighting, panicking etc.
There'd be a good chance he'd have survived this ordeal. Simply put- Floyd couldn't catch his breath.
I didn't like the way the Police handled the entire situation, it was heart wrenching to watch...I wouldn't want to see it again.
They are out for blood. Chauvin, (poor Sod) will most likely take the hit.
O.J. Simpson, (Ignoramus) all over again.
Hmm, JL, you hopped and skipped right over my last question.
Would YOU have realized that $20 wasn't the real thing?
I didn't hop and skip over anything. I said as clearly as can be said, "I have no idea." School principals don't receive training on recognizing counterfeit bills.
You, however, DID "hop and skip" over my question, so I'll ask it again. You claimed, "Chauvin is a little man who was intimidated by a bigger Black man who may not have even known that $20 was counterfeit." I replied, "And you know this how?"
I will patiently wait.
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