Apparently you haven't been doing your homework, specifically about the fly in the ointment Giuliani. I sort of gave you a heads up about him before but you dismissed that so we wait until him and his nefarious old arse has been exposed more. A simple follow the money approach is all you need and seeing how and who pays the dude.

Everybody whose testified has mentioned him being in the shadow screwing stuff up with BS, and some are admitting to living with it like Volcker who has amended his statement to distance himself from his previous position. None as yet has any stomach for what Rudy and the prez are pushing though and that's investigating the Biden's so making such crap the exclusive idea of Rudy and the dufus with Sondland as the butt boy messenger.

You still got more excuses for bad behavior by the dufus?

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Apparently you haven't been doing your homework, specifically about the fly in the ointment Giuliani. I sort of gave you a heads up about him before but you dismissed that so we wait until him and his nefarious old arse has been exposed more. A simple follow the money approach is all you need and seeing how and who pays the dude.

Everybody whose testified has mentioned him being in the shadow screwing stuff up with BS, and some are admitting to living with it like Volcker who has amended his statement to distance himself from his previous position. None as yet has any stomach for what Rudy and the prez are pushing though and that's investigating the Biden's so making such crap the exclusive idea of Rudy and the dufus with Sondland as the butt boy messenger.

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I just don't know how to help you. You took the same awful approach with Kavanaugh. You don't seem to be able to understand that you have to actually have reliable evidence before you can convict someone. You don't have it.

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You still got more excuses for bad behavior by the dufus?

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I have made no excuses for his bad behavior, just like I make no excuses for your deplorable behavior of wanting to impeach a pres simply because you don't like him.

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

If you will lie about one thing, even small things, you will most assuredly will lie about larger things.

If you lie about ANYTHING, you are a liar.

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Does that go for you, V7? You know, that lie you told about there being a video of Biden's son - the one "everybody saw and heard"? So you're admitting to being a liar.

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GOD ONLY KNOWS WHAT OTHER LIES HE TOLD

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What other lies have YOU told, V7?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I just don't know how to help you

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Tal hardly needs help from the likes of you.

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You don't seem to be able to understand that you have to actually have reliable evidence before you can convict someone.

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Does the testimony of all the witnesses mean nothing to you? These are professionals at the top of their field. They have Top Secret clearances, long years serving their country, and proven patriotism. Yet, you give them no credence.

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I make no excuses for your deplorable behavior of wanting to impeach a pres simply because you don't like him.

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You deny loving Trump yet you support him every chance you get. Hypocrisy, anyone?

Names. People who have names is what we need. Not numbers, but names. Plainly, you don't have the faintest idea of who those five people are you were so sure of a couple of days ago. It's funny how when you get cornered, you get nasty.

Who has first hand evidence of criminal activity? Names, please.

Athos: Were you a Bulldog in a former life? Or a mule with blinders on? I say this because you still doggedly and stubbornly continue to contend that I lied: I did not......Here's where this goes: You said: "You know, that lie you told about there being a video of Biden's son - the one "everybody saw and heard"? I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT "A VIDEO OF BIDEN'S SON", go back and look at what I said! NOW WHO IS THE LIAR, ATHOS? YOU SLIPPED UP TRYING TO CALL ME A LIAR AND NOW YOU HAVE TOLD A BOLD-FACED LIE....AND I CAUGHT YOU! TWO CAN PLAY AT TRYING TO BE A LAWYER!

WHAT SAY YOU, LIAR?

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

You said: "You know, that lie you told about there being a video of Biden's son - the one "everybody saw and heard"?

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Calm down, V7, don't get your panties in a bunch. Here's what you said - (quote) I did see a video of Joe Biden bragging about getting the Ukrainians to end their investigation of his son Hunter....that we did hear and see (close quote) Not exactly a perfect quote, but close enough - same idea. Ok?

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NOW WHO IS THE LIAR, ATHOS? YOU SLIPPED UP TRYING TO CALL ME A LIAR AND NOW YOU HAVE TOLD A BOLD-FACED LIE.

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A badly quoted thing YOU wrote is not a lie. That's one of the simpler things in life to contend with, but, in your heated need to "get me", you have gone overboard with your bolding and caps to make sure I get your outrage. What you HAVE convinced me of, V7, is your pathos.

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...AND I CAUGHT YOU! WHAT SAY YOU, LIAR?

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Not even a nice try. I know you're desperately trying to win one, V7, but you gotta do better. To get practice on actual lies,. go back and read your own posts - many of them are outright lies from your favorite sources - Russian Television and OAN.

Here's a starter for you - I did see a video of Joe Biden bragging about getting the Ukrainians to end their investigation of his son Hunter....that we did hear and see. That's how to use formatting.

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Calm down, V7, don't get your panties in a bunch.

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Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, you're one of the chief "panties in a bunch" persons on this board. I'm sure we could all start taking a deep breath from time to time, but, for instance, this was a response from you about the video.

"ARE YOU SERIOUS? This video clearly states that "there is NO evidence that Biden stated the prosecutor was investigating his son". NONE! Nada!

In fact, it is stated TWICE! What's wrong with you two? Can't you hear? See?

It's one thing to believe something. It's quite another to offer proof of something that absolutely proves the OPPOSITE! This is typical right-wing BS, offering false statements as true."

Or try this one from just above. "Does that go for you, V7? You know, that lie you told about there being a video of Biden's son - the one "everybody saw and heard"? So you're admitting to being a liar.

What other lies have YOU told, V7?"

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Here's what you said - (quote) I did see a video of Joe Biden bragging about getting the Ukrainians to end their investigation of his son Hunter....that we did hear and see (close quote) Not exactly a perfect quote, but close enough - same idea. Ok?

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It can't be a quote but then be "not exactly a perfect quote, but close enough."

Sorry Vac, but this is the actual quote. It's from another thread. "Athos: There is a YouTube video of Biden bragging about stopping the investigation of his son." Or at least I guess this is what you two are talking about.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showth...92#post3844292

What a load of crap over NOTHING as even repub witness Kurt Volcker testified the investigations the dufus wanted had no merits and the Joe Biden was not corrupt.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I just don't know how to help you. You took the same awful approach with Kavanaugh. You don't seem to be able to understand that you have to actually have reliable evidence before you can convict someone. You don't have it.

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I don't need your help and how easy it is to just read and quote the testimony witnesses to what they actually saw, and heard. The difference between repub investigations of Kavanaugh, and the dem investigations of the dufus is yours was a SHAM and ours is NOT!

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I have made no excuses for his bad behavior, just like I make no excuses for your deplorable behavior of wanting to impeach a pres simply because you don't like him.

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That's at best inaccurate, as the dufus should be impeached by his lying words, and CRIMINAL actions. The evidence is being gathered and that burns your right wing loony butt doesn't it?

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Originally Posted by paraclete

I guess the answer to my question is stupidity, 500 homes later, and the fight rages on and no one is interested, they have decided that all this enhances the rediculous climate change debate, as if catastrophic fire events have not happened in the past. Today is another catastrophic fire rating day somewhere in the country. I lay blame for climate change where it belongs, Sol and our wobble in our orbit

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I can't just blame humans for being unable to cope with the destruction Mother Nature causes us. Don't you guys have insurance for this kind of thing, and gym shoes to run when you smell smoke?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

I can't just blame humans for being unable to cope with the destruction Mother Nature causes us. Don't you guys have insurance for this kind of thing, and gym shoes to run when you smell smoke?

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Tal where are you going to run too, insurance doesn't protect life and if your home goes how long is it going to take you to get another one. You just join the queue. All day today I could smell smoke and there was a bad smoke haze, now I don't know of any fire near me, so wind is just blowing it in, but as an old fire fighter, my attention was up. Nearest fire might have been 100 km or 10 Km, no way of knowing. So tonight South Australia is burning, tomorrow it will be our turn again as temperatures soar and the wind rises. All the evac warnings are for places far away

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What a load of crap over NOTHING as even repub witness Kurt Volcker testified the investigations the dufus wanted had no merits and the Joe Biden was not corrupt.

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That's funny. There was never an investigation, so how could Volcker have known that Biden was not corrupt? The best he would be able to say was that he was not aware of any corruption. I don't know if there was any corruption or not, but having a completely unqualified (other than his last name) HB, who had recently been kicked out of the navy for cocaine use and was hired, by his own testimony, solely because of his last name, on that board of directors has certainly the appearance of corruption.

BTW, Volcker's testimony was a negative for the dem's circus.

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That's at best inaccurate, as the dufus should be impeached by his lying words, and CRIMINAL actions. The evidence is being gathered and that burns your right wing loony butt doesn't it?

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Good luck with that "evidence". Volcker, Williams, Morrison, and Vindman all testified yesterday that there was no bribery. Oh well. If this circus makes it to the Senate, then it will be a different show. Hearsay is not allowed in that setting, so who do you think will testify? At least it will be a short hearing. Very short.

Let's try it one more time. "Both the Uke prime minister and the foreign minister say there was no linkage. And in fact, the money was delivered and the investigation never took place. You don't dispute those facts do you?"

Man you guys sure don't like to answer questions.

We don't know if OLD Biden is corrupt or not.....we haven't proven he is innocent of a crime, yet named......I mean, we are at a different juncture of what constitutes JUSTICE in the U.S.: We take a person and TRY to fit a crime to the person....forget about "innocent until proven guilty".....The whole IMPEACHMENT proceeding is beginning to take on the appearance of an old SOVIET SHOW TRIALS from the 1930s, where a the weight of proof of innocence was far heavier than the weight of proof of guilt: Remember the BALANCE OF JUSTICE we are supposed to go by? What happened to that?

If I hear another SOB trying or even attempting to equate what these IMPEACHMENT proceeding are with anything even remotely associated with JUSTICE, I think I will have to tell them to go to hell: There is nothing but nothing in these Impeachment proceedings that is for the benefit or the welfare of the United States Of America or even for the preservation of the RIGHTS of the accused related to due process....the PERSECUTORS (because that is what they are) have been permitted to go from one named accusation to naming the accusation something else.....This whole thing is about overturning the election of a duly elected POTUS and about delegitimizing the 2016 Election.

It is the dem's effort to sway public opinion prior to 2020.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Tal where are you going to run too, insurance doesn't protect life and if your home goes how long is it going to take you to get another one. You just join the queue. All day today I could smell smoke and there was a bad smoke haze, now I don't know of any fire near me, so wind is just blowing it in, but as an old fire fighter, my attention was up. Nearest fire might have been 100 km or 10 Km, no way of knowing. So tonight South Australia is burning, tomorrow it will be our turn again as temperatures soar and the wind rises. All the evac warnings are for places far away

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You know how it goes Clete, you have to have a plan for disaster, Both an A and B.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

That's funny. There was never an investigation, so how could Volcker have known that Biden was not corrupt? The best he would be able to say was that he was not aware of any corruption. I don't know if there was any corruption or not, but having a completely unqualified (other than his last name) HB, who had recently been kicked out of the navy for cocaine use and was hired, by his own testimony, solely because of his last name, on that board of directors has certainly the appearance of corruption.

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There was an investigation and the rats ran after 2012. You want another investigation because of a guys name and blood line?

"Morgan Williams, director of the US-Ukraine Business Council, discerned a conflict, though he had seen no direct evidence of one. He argued it was a problem of appearance, as there was an "unspoken" American tradition that "frowns" on "close family members of government working for organizations with business links to active politics."

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BTW, Volcker's testimony was a negative for the dem's circus.

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You can explain that any time if you watched it and not just read about it. Makes for a great discussion.

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Good luck with that "evidence". Volcker, Williams, Morrison, and Vindman all testified yesterday that there was no bribery. Oh well. If this circus makes it to the Senate, then it will be a different show. Hearsay is not allowed in that setting, so who do you think will testify? At least it will be a short hearing. Very short.

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I'd rather wait for charges by a lawyer if you don't mind as they all testified to the inappropriateness of the call that raised alarms enough to consult with counsel.

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Let's try it one more time. "Both the Uke prime minister and the foreign minister say there was no linkage. And in fact, the money was delivered and the investigation never took place. You don't dispute those facts do you?"

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My versions says a failed attempt at bribery and extortion is still a crime, and I believe I will be found correct in that assessment.

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Man you guys sure don't like to answer questions.

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Says the guy who doesn't do his own homework, but criticizes mine.

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You know how it goes Clete, you have to have a plan for disaster, Both an A and B.

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My plan A was to move out of a bush fire prone area, this I did 25 years ago, Plan B was to live in a incombustable house, also 25 years ago, so now I can feel sorry for those who have to fight the fires. What I know is if it floods at my place, we are all in a lot of trouble, However, I can't do anything about smoke which might blow in from 1,000 km away and only AC deals with the heat

Do you understand that we have fires here with a 1,000 km perimeter, and maybe even bigger, we are not talking about one state burning but all of them. Some of these fires were lit by children and idiots, so we are not dealing with nature but as I said in the beginning, stupidity

But all of this pales in comparison with the stupidity of Trump who lights fires under his opponents every day and gets burned doing it

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You can explain that any time if you watched it and not just read about it. Makes for a great discussion.

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Volcker had zero evidence of bribery or a quid pro quo.

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I'd rather wait for charges by a lawyer if you don't mind as they all testified to the inappropriateness of the call that raised alarms enough to consult with counsel.

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So you want to charge him with "inappropriate calls"? Good luck with that one.

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Let's try it one more time. "Both the Uke prime minister and the foreign minister say there was no linkage. And in fact, the money was delivered and the investigation never took place. You don't dispute those facts do you?"
My versions says a failed attempt at bribery and extortion is still a crime, and I believe I will be found correct in that assessment.

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Congrats on not answering the question and verifying what I said below.

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Man you guys sure don't like to answer questions.
Says the guy who doesn't do his own homework, but criticizes mine.

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You find a place where I haven't done my homework and we'll talk about it. Otherwise your accusation is no more credible than the dems in Congress.

Saw the exchange today between the turd Gordon Sondland and the other turd, Little Adam "Boy Scout" Adam Schiff: Little Adam tried like hell to get Gordon Sondland to say that Trump told him to pressure Ukraine but Sondland didn't read the Democrat script! It was hilarious to see!!! Little Adam, bug-eyed as ever, was just hemming and hawing like made: I thought he was constipated and trying to dislodge a rather enormous log!

These IMPEACHMENT inquiries are good comic relief....especially when the ones who are supposed to be the "Smart Guys" keep stepping in the dog pile.,

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These IMPEACHMENT inquiries are good comic relief....especially when the ones who are supposed to be the "Smart Guys" keep stepping in the dog pile.,

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You really think there are smart guys over there, the Demonrats just re-endorsed the Patriot Act a piece of legislation they are opposed to

LOL, now that was funny Clete. @JL, They didn't have to show evidence, just enough probable cause for charges to be brought.

https://www.arcamax.com/newspics/176/17680/1768056.gif


Won't be easy because there are many!

It's all politics. They have nothing of substance. Sondland testified today that Trump told him he wanted nothing from the Ukes and there was no quid pro quo. He just wanted Zelensky to do what was right.

Most important exchange of the day. Rep. Mike Turner, R-Ohio. "Mr. Sondland, let's be clear: no one on this planet—not Donald Trump, Rudy Guiliani, Mick Mulvaney, Mike Pompeo—no one told you aid was tied to political investigations, is that correct."

Gordon Sondland: "That's correct."

Case over. Find something else to worry about.

Paraclete: THE PATRIOT ACT! WOW! I remember that "Feel Good" legislation.....man did that ever help preserve OUR RIGHTS and make us all feel so safe! All it costs us was a good chunk of our liberty: a small price to pay for more government control over every single aspect of our lives!

Here is something Talaniman, jlisenbe, and Athose can all agree with me on: The no thinking, sheople, idiots of this country, whether they be Repubs, Demos, Libertarians, Christians, Jews, whatever whatever need to take heed of what Ben Franklin said:

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Got to say, these "State Department" type bureaucrats, some of them lifelong, are all, even the women, very creepy, very slimy people! I don't get why they are so fawned over and lauded: Sondland and Vinman, particularly, are not to be trusted.....Did you notice how shifty (pardon the pun) Vinman was during testimony: He kept looking down and to his right: This is an Italian "Tell" for someone who is lying....and Vinman was lying like a madman!

I don't know if they were lying or not, but when Sondland told the committee that the pres told him there was no quid pro quo and that he expected nothing from Zelensky, then why didn't they just drop the gavel, dismiss the hearing, and all go home? It's over for those who know the meaning of English words.

Fiona Hill testifies today, and she has FIRST hand knowledge of the meetings that took place and who did what. I hope they get into the talking point Devin Nunes parrots about Ukraine, and not Russia meddled in the 2016 election. This whole thing could be put to bed with the appearance of those others with first hand knowledge appearing under oath, like Pomeo, Pence, Bolton, and Mulvaney.

Why would they refuse if everything is so legal and above board? No the dufus would rather obstruct the investigation than get the truth out. Sondland says they were kept in the loop so let's hear what they have to say...under OATH.

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Fiona Hill testifies today, and she has FIRST hand knowledge of the meetings that took place and who did what

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That's the motto of the dems. "What til you hear what the next guy says!" Now Sondland clearly stated that the pres told him there was no quid pro quo and no demands made on Zelensky. He agreed that he knew of no linkage. The Uke PM and foreign minister both say there was no linkage. But by George, wait til the next witness! This gets tiresome after a while.

Talaniman: Here is a major issue with anyone in either of these "camps": Loyalty and Disloyalty. Loyalty, despite whether that loyalty is on the side of a cause you despise or are in favor of, is a very admirable trait. Disloyalty, whether it is favorable to a cause you support or one you despise, is entirely repulsive. Trump may be a lot of things, bad in some ways maybe good in others, but one thing is for sure: TRUMP ISN'T WORTH A DAMN AT PICKING PEOPLE TO WORK FOR HIM THAT ARE LOYAL! I have never seen so many people turn on a man like I have seen those turn on Trump. Its hard for me to come to terms with disloyalty, particularly in the workplace.....and when I hear it expressed or see it in action, it sickens me. The career bureaucrats that have turned on Trump and, effectively, backstabbed him, have sealed their reputations as to never be trusted again.....Vinman says that people he works with don't want to include him in meetings anymore: Why is that surprising? I don't think anyone like treachery.

JL and Vac7, I doubt that I will hold your defense of a lying, cheating, dufus against you. Isn't that what right wing conservative southerners do? I understand. Frankly I enjoy the repubs trying to defend their dufus.

Talaniman: I fully anticipated you coming back slinging stuff.....A few points: I don't think I was "defending" anything, other than saying that DISLOYALTY is DISHONORABLE: Do you not agree? Conversely, I was simply stating that LOYALTY WAS HONORABLE. The mere fact that a lot of these BUREAUCRATS ACCEPTED JOBS THAT TRUMP GAVE THEM, AND NOW THEY ARE BITING THE HAND THAT GAVE THEM A HAND, TELLS YOU A LOT ABOUT THE RANCID, UNSCRUPULOUS NATURE OF THESE BEAUROCRATS CHARACTER: THEY ARE TURDS! Did you ever turn on a man that gave you a job? I bet you didn't! If you had a problem with a superior, you simply put in for a transfer or left the job completely....you didn't try to torpedo the man who hired you, even if you had issue with him....that is what real men do.

I will take the liberty to speak for JL on this: All of these comments have little to do with anything "conservative" or "Southern"....but they have everything to do with what is right and what is wrong. The public lynching/attempted coup of a duly elected POTUS by a conspiracy of ideological zealots is unbecoming of the United States and, in fact, is unprecedented.....the whole thing sets a horrible precedence for future Administrations to contend with because the same tactic can be duplicated upon Demos as it is being acted upon a Repub POTUS.

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

The public lynching/attempted coup of a duly elected POTUS by a conspiracy of ideological zealots is unbecoming of the United States and, in fact, is unprecedented.....

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You mean being impeached? Andrew Johnson? Richard Nixon? Bill Clinton?

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

Talaniman: I fully anticipated you coming back slinging stuff.....A few points: I don't think I was "defending" anything, other than saying that DISLOYALTY is DISHONORABLE: Do you not agree? Conversely, I was simply stating that LOYALTY WAS HONORABLE. The mere fact that a lot of these BUREAUCRATS ACCEPTED JOBS THAT TRUMP GAVE THEM, AND NOW THEY ARE BITING THE HAND THAT GAVE THEM A HAND, TELLS YOU A LOT ABOUT THE RANCID, UNSCRUPULOUS NATURE OF THES BEAUROCRATS CHARACTER: THEY ARE TURDS! Did you ever turn on a man that gave you a job? I bet you didn't! If you had a problem with a superior, you simply put in for a transfer or left the job completely....you didn't try to torpedo the man who hired you, even if you had issue with him....that is what real men do.

I will take the liberty to speak for JL on this: All of these comments have little to do with anything "conservative" or "Southern"....but they have everything to do with what is right and what is wrong. The public lynching/attempted coup of a duly elected POTUS by a conspiracy of ideological zealots is unbecoming of the United States and, in fact, is unprecedented.....the whole thing sets a horrible precedence for future Administrations to contend with because the same tactic can be duplicated upon Demos as it is being acted upon a Repub POTUS.

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Stuff it will you. None of the people who have testified owes the dufus a darn thing not even loyalty, and all have served several presidents and all over the world for many tears. Heck I have yet to hear any of them acknowledge a party affiliation. Conservative southerners is MY characterization of you and JL, and accurate to my knowledge so please save me the dufus language of hoax and witch hunts and such to defend a guy whose asking a favor of a foreign country to get dirt on his fellow American and political foe. That's the disgusting stuff you should be concerned about.

Haven't heard any righty address that at all and don't expect you too! That's a shame!

W.G.: NO! Not being IMPEACHED: IMPEACHMENT was put into place in the Constitution by men a lot smarter than me and men who had divine wisdom, which I also do not possess and which is not possessed by any man in our Government today. IMPEACHMENT is needed when it is justified....and that is the key. Richard Nixon was not IMPEACHED....probably would have been if he stayed around long enough. But, if you have listened to the Trump Impeachment Inquiry proceeding, I think you can tell that nothing has been stated that is illegal or an IMPEACHABLE offense.....Adam Schiff is a highly partisan leader of this cabal and evidence suggest that the Demos have been talking IMPEACHMENT of Trump from the day he was elected.....This is nothing akin to JUSTICE, it is, however, very akin to a coup.

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I will take the liberty to speak for JL on this: All of these comments have little to do with anything "conservative" or "Southern"....but they have everything to do with what is right and what is wrong. The public lynching/attempted coup of a duly elected POTUS by a conspiracy of ideological zealots is unbecoming of the United States and, in fact, is unprecedented.....the whole thing sets a horrible precedence for future Administrations to contend with because the same tactic can be duplicated upon Demos as it is being acted upon a Repub POTUS.

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Pretty well stated, Vac. The dems need to figure out that before you can impeach someone, you should first be able to demonstrate guilt.

You know I'm still going with stupidity, what has been demonstrated is that there is nothing worth discussing among current events, just boring crap

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asking a favor of a foreign country to get dirt on his fellow American and political foe.

That's the disgusting stuff you should be concerned about.

Haven't heard any righty address that at all and don't expect you too!

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Waiting for you righties to quite crying foul and address the reason for the INQUIRY.

As I said, STUPIDITY! or perhaps as trump said, SCUM! can we move on?

You can do whatever you want Clete. What's stopping you? Oh that's right your island burns and the roos is getting BBQ'd, and you Aussies don't know what to do.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

You can do whatever you want Clete. What's stopping you? Oh that's right your island burns and the roos is getting BBQ'd, and you Aussies don't know what to do.

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Next time you BBQ some lefties in 'fornia I'll show the same sensitivity Tal, or perhaps the next time Texarse gets hit by a hurricane or a caravan. You think it amusing that we have a small problem, well I find it amusing you have an insurmountable problem. My problem will be a memory next week but yours will linger on, maybe for another five years

You should know better than to get in the way when I'm chunkin' rocks at the wingers.

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Waiting for you righties to quite crying foul and address the reason for the INQUIRY.

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I've already addressed the problem. The dems are still mad about Saint Hillary losing. They are bitter and think they have Trump in a bind, but I suspect this thing is going to come back and bite them when it begins to dawn upon everyone that they have no real evidence.

Russia if your listening, I need your help AGAIN! Of course Vlad is listening.