Let's get some things straight:

1) Communist China is a threat to at least 75% of the world (the non-Chinese part), U.S. and Australia include: If you wait around for the ChiComs to provide a gold-plated "DIRECT THREAT" announcement, you won't see it.

2) Regardless of WHO is the POTUS, at any given time, the U.S. is the "GOOD GUY" in the world: If the U.S. didn't exist, no freedoms of any sort would exist in this world. The U.S. does a lot of good for a lot of nations around the world.....Anyone who tries to put rain on the U.S.'s positions as a source of global help, financially and otherwise, is just not wanting to see the real picture.

3) With Crimea, Russia "took back" an area of the Ukraine that is ethnically, culturally, and speaks Russian: Crimea was "GIVEN" to the Ukraine in 1958 by Kruschev: Say what you will, but Crimea has always been RUSSIAN.

4) Cannot understand the left's fascination with the Ukraine: The Ukrainian Government is FAR RIGHT WING....some even call it Fascist.....but the left is drooling over it like its a darling socialist state of some kind.....this is a paradox.

5) I hear what your selling, I'm just not buying: Through all of the NEW TRUMP SCANDAL, I am hearing about the ghostlike, omnipresent "Whistleblower," who heard a story from someone and then heard another story from someone else who heard a story from someone else, and so on and so forth: This is hearsay bullsh&$ and its inadmissible evidence in Court.....If you want to say that this isn't a court proceeding, do so at your own risk because it sounds like you are skirting the law and trying to "CONVICT" someone without due process (i.e. sounds like a chicken sh&$ process as it is generally viewed by most people).....this kind of crap usually doesn't turn out well for the accusers, particularly if they aren't man enough to come out of the shadows and show their face/s. John Dean came out of the shadows and did nothing to endear himself at all...eventually became one of the most hated men in America because he appeared to be a treacherous, back-stabbing SOB.

6) When Congressmen stand up in front of the nations and exclaim that "I took an Oath To The Constitution" then why doesn't that same bunch in Congress follow the Constitution by taking a VOTE IN CONGRESS TO BEGIN THE IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY AS DIRECTED BY THE CONSTITUTION? I think I know why: Because, if they vote, their names are tied to the vote....and its one thing to talk about this stuff when you have no skin in the game.....taking a vote makes you put your skin in the game.....GUTLESS WONDERS!

Yes, there are a lot of gutless wonders in the world and many reside in political parties because there they can be protected for acting for the cause. But you kid yourself, the US is no longer the good guy, hasn't been for yonks. It is a nation that actively interferes in the affairs of other nations. The whistleblower is another gutless wonder, hidden away and yet this is a person who must have been in a position of trust.

So all this straightness you claim is just rhetoric, stuff repeated over and over until someone calls it truth. That Trump is not an ideal person for the presidency where great power is exercised is obvious, but what does his ascendency tell us about the US, there are a lot of gutless wonders hiding in the shadows, because in the real world a person like this should not have succeeded but he did, and therefore impeachment is just another cowards castle

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Your hatefulness gets tiresome.

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Not nearly as yours. Mine is very limited. Yours encompasses most of humanity as you gleefully consign the majority to eternal punishment in hell. At least that happens only in your twisted mind.

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I can assure you that I've never been in a kitchen too hot for me.

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In time, in time......

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Proof positive that you are no better than us. Maybe that's the lesson we all should learn, and strive to do better.

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Well said. I can go along with that.

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So all this straightness you claim is just rhetoric, stuff repeated over and over until someone calls it truth. That Trump is not an ideal person for the presidency where great power is exercised is obvious, but what does his ascendency tell us about the US, there are a lot of gutless wonders hiding in the shadows, because in the real world a person like this should not have succeeded but he did, and therefore impeachment is just another cowards castle.

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You do realize we are just saying the same things over and over? You feel that way about Trump, and I feel that way about Obama. I can see how a person would criticize Trump. For that matter, I criticize Trump, but it's your utter refusal to say even the slightest critical comment about Obama, HC, or other dems that is bothersome. Dirt is dirt, no matter if it clings to a dem or a repub. I just think your criticism needs to become non-partisan. You falsely accused me of promoting cruelty, and yet you enthusiastically supported two liberal dems who are big-time supporters of abortion. There is nothing more cruel than tearing a living human being apart, one arm or leg at a time, and yet you seem to be just fine with that. It's that element of your belief system that is completely puzzling to me. Maybe you could take some time to explain it.

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2) Regardless of WHO is the POTUS, at any given time, the U.S. is the "GOOD GUY" in the world: If the U.S. didn't exist, no freedoms of any sort would exist in this world. The U.S. does a lot of good for a lot of nations around the world.....Anyone who tries to put rain on the U.S.'s positions as a source of global help, financially and otherwise, is just not wanting to see the real picture.

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Pretty good comment, Vac.

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You do realize we are just saying the same things over and over?

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must you state the obvious all the time

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must you state the obvious all the time

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If none of us stated the obvious, then we'd have next to nothing to say.

and that differs, How?

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and that differs, How?

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The key point was my use of the pronoun "us" versus your usage of "you". In other words, welcome to the club.

Hard to frame yourself as a good guy when you have a scandal ridden dufus who admits shaking down a smaller nation for his own political gain during our elections. Hard to claim how good you are when you defend dictators and tyrants and badmouth your own long held allies. I mean on the global stage this dufus did cast doubt on his own government assessments, and took Putin's side no matter what he has done. This isn't just one instance, setting up and assassinating an American journalist, forgiven and forgotten, business as usual.

Who the leader of the free world is does matter, and we screwed up our own credibility. Puffing up our egos with past glory is sort of INSANE! Bullying other nations is CRIMINAL!

Talaniman: Forget about the current Administration for a moment, put Trump aside: The U.S. has and does provide tremendous funding and assistance to nations arounds the world...that cannot be contested....and that has happened under all Administrations. We are humanitarians....If you know one nation that has done more than the U.S., please name it. The U.S. isn't obligated to do one damn thing for anyone other than our own people...and that is true, also....so, whatever we do, it is because we do it of our own benevolent desire to do so, no one is holding a gun to our head. Current Administration aside, the U.S. is still #1 in the world at helping people around the world.....In our DNA, the U.S. is unlike any other country in this world: We resist being "Bad", its just not us! We aren't going to produce and we will not allow a Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Napoleon, Khan or any other crazy SOB to drive us to become anything other than what we have always been: The U.S. is EXCEPTIONAL in the history of the world.....no one man is going to change that, either!

You know, Talaniman: In 5 or 6 years, max, Trump will be out of the Whitehouse...the U.S. will still be here....we will still be a Republic with democratic principles....the sun will still rise in the morning in the East and set in the West...and life will still go on. At most, Trump, in the big scheme of things, is only here for a short time.....WHATEVER WILL BE, WILL BE!

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Hard to frame yourself as a good guy when you have a scandal ridden dufus who admits shaking down a smaller nation for his own political gain during our elections. Hard to claim how good you are when you defend dictators and tyrants and badmouth your own long held allies. I mean on the global stage this dufus did cast doubt on his own government assessments, and took Putin's side no matter what he has done.

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1. I have not tried to frame myself as "a good guy".
2. You had your own "scandal ridden dufus" and never raised so much as a whisper to oppose him, and you sure won't do it now, so you might as well drop the "holier than thou" song and dance. It gets tiresome.
3. It all comes down to policies. Obama's pro-abortion stance, his enormous budget deficits and anemic economic growth, and his ineffective foreign policy evidently suited you well. The Benghazi disaster and subsequent campaign of lying in order to get reelected was worse than anything I've seen with Trump.

And like I said earlier, we have reached the point of just repeating the same statements over and over. There is absolutely nothing new. Neither of us seems to be able to say anything to effect change in the other. It's all getting kind of old.

It must be stated though that despite our views it is currently before the public as dems attempt to make the case against the dufus so our opinions about whatever is a moot point as we are definitely deal with that and not Mr. Obama. Your horse appears dead, and we have begun beating ours.

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Your horse appears dead, and we have begun beating ours.

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That one made me laugh. You put it just about right.

Ok, have not read all the thread, but if the whistle blower is CIA, then no he is not a whistle blower but he is following orders of someone. CIA do so many illegal things all the time and have a code of not talking about it. So no CIA would ever tell on a President unless someone higher in power is controlling this

Welocme, Fr. Always nice to have another voice in this discussion.

Fr Chuck: You aren't suggesting George Soros has something to do with it, are you?

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

Fr Chuck: You aren't suggesting George Soros has something to do with it, are you?

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No he is suggesting someone high in the CIA, etc

With all the bad mouthing by the dufus of everybody, I wouldn't be surprised if somebody had enough.

Talaniman: Dufus or no, he is the Commander In Chief and that is sacred: Anyone who would get a paycheck at the Federal level and purposely impugn the POTUS, WHOEVER THE POTUS IS AT THE TIME, needs to be thrown out and possibly see jail bars....cannot continue to operate this way.

So Hunter Biden gets paid millions of dollars for doing...nothing? All of you who seem to be so skilled in reading between the lines on Trump's phone call, can you read between the lines on that one? Biden, as VP, was prohibited from taking money from foreign entities, so he instead sends his son to rake it in. Sound OK to you? And now we know that Biden lied about discussing that business deal with his son. As it is being reported, "'I have never spoken to my son about his overseas business dealings,” Biden said, pointing the finger at President Trump. “I know Trump deserves to be investigated. He is violating every basic norm of a president. You should be asking him why is he on the phone with a foreign leader, trying to intimidate a foreign leader. You should be looking at Trump.'

Hunter Biden told The New Yorker previously that he and his father had spoken “just once” about his work in Ukraine."

And now a picture has surfaced of the Bidens playing golf with...guess who. Two reps from the Ukranian business which employed Hunter. And they didn't talk business?? Right. So, all of you who are howling for Trump's head, let's see if you really believe in the rule of law and in the ethical behavior of government officials.

None of this is coming from second hand sources. It is all right in front of us for all to see.

jlisenbe: To Talaniman's defense, he did say Biden was "Fair Game" to go after because he is running for POTUS......I hope the law is fair and the dragnet takes on all collections and evaluates each before throwing certain ones out and saying that they are O.K.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

So Hunter Biden gets paid millions of dollars for doing...nothing? All of you who seem to be so skilled in reading between the lines on Trump's phone call, can you read between the lines on that one? Biden, as VP, was prohibited from taking money from foreign entities, so he instead sends his son to rake it in. Sound OK to you?

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Sounds like you might be making it up with no evidence whatsoever that Jo sent his son to make millions in his place, or that his son got paid for nothing just because he was on the board of an energy company. Show me the evidence for my perusal please.

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And now we know that Biden lied about discussing that business deal with his son. As it is being reported, "'I have never spoken to my son about his overseas business dealings,” Biden said, pointing the finger at President Trump. “I know Trump deserves to be investigated. He is violating every basic norm of a president. You should be asking him why is he on the phone with a foreign leader, trying to intimidate a foreign leader. You should be looking at Trump.'

Hunter Biden told The New Yorker previously that he and his father had spoken “just once” about his work in Ukraine."

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What was said between them, maybe Joe just didn't remember because there were no memorable details or maybe it was "I got a job dad!" Okay maybe he lied about that one conversation. We still should be looking at the dufus for what he does, and his public release of his memo. Right, or that one lie means the dufus should NOT be looked at for his many lies?

That's not logical. Nor fact based so where's your evidence of wrong doing? I can wait, I have time.

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And now a picture has surfaced of the Bidens playing golf with...guess who. Two reps from the Ukranian business which employed Hunter. And they didn't talk business?? Right. So, all of you who are howling for Trump's head, let's see if you really believe in the rule of law and in the ethical behavior of government officials.

None of this is coming from second hand sources. It is all right in front of us for all to see.

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I will see your golf photo, and raise you the many golf photos of the dufus and his rich friends not just on the golf course, but the many other properties he has at taxpayer expense. You think they were talking golf or food, or females? Yeah we have a video of the dufus and Epstein too.

Tell you what you investigate Biden or anyone else you want to, and we investigate the dufus. FAIR?

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Sounds like you might be making it up with no evidence whatsoever that Jo sent his son to make millions in his place, or that his son got paid for nothing just because he was on the board of an energy company. Show me the evidence for my perusal please.

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Biden claims to have not talked with son about the job. The son said he did. There is a pic of the two of them playing golf with two of the company's officials. Now I realize that liberal dems will look at that like they looked at AG Lynch meeting with BC in secret for nearly an hour, and then just a few days later we see the FBI decline to press charges against HC after saying that she did, in fact, violate the law. Well, nothing to see here. Just keep moving. Nothing to see here.

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What was said between them, maybe Joe just didn't remember because there were no memorable details or maybe it was "I got a job dad!" Okay maybe he lied about that one conversation. We still should be looking at the dufus for what he does, and his public release of his memo. Right, or that one lie means the dufus should NOT be looked at for his many lies?

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Now let's see if you are going to apply that same wonderfully reasonable approach to Mr. Trump, or for that matter if you applied it to Judge Kavanaugh at his hearing where there was basically nothing credible against him other than the story of a person with an incredibly inefficient memory.

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That's not logical. Nor fact based so where's your evidence of wrong doing? I can wait, I have time.

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We can both wait. The evidence against Trump and the evidence against Biden are, in both cases, circumstantial. The difference is that the liberal dems, as they seem to always do, are enraged anytime Trump sneezes, but indifferent as to what any liberal dem might do.

Doesn't compare to the right wing outrage at the Clintons or decades long efforts to bring them down, and for the record screw your frat boy, and your ignorance of the trauma of assault victims. I can bet if you were assaulted your memory would be somewhat deficient, especially without witnesses, or a co conspirator lying for his buddy. I believe Ms. Ford over the young drunks every time.

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for the record screw your frat boy, and your ignorance of the trauma of assault victims. I can bet if you were assaulted your memory would be somewhat deficient, especially without witnesses, or a co conspirator lying for his buddy. I believe Ms. Ford over the young drunks every time.

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He was in a fraternity, so he must be guilty? No real evidence, and the case would never have made into a court room because of a lack of evidence, but he must be guilty because he was a "frat boy". Good grief. What an approach to justice. You had your mind made up before there was ever a minute of testimony. You say there were not witnesses, but Ford alleged there were, and yet the two people she named did not even remember knowing Kavanaugh or being at the party.

Your attitude towards Kavanaugh is the textbook definition of prejudice. You made your mind up before the "facts" were even presented. He must be guilty because, after all, he's "frat boy".

Now you are so even-handed in your treatment of Biden, but guess who else was a "frat boy"? If you guessed Joe Biden, then you guessed right. Why is it that Kavanaugh was automatically guilty, but you insist on a rational and fair evaluation of the evidence against Biden? Why do you treat the two men so differently? Could politics have anything to do with it?

Was Biden a drunk frat boy? Any claims of assault or bad behavior? Can you not see the difference? Your ability to compare and conflate as equal two different things never ceases to amaze me. Is that prejudice on YOUR part, or just politics.

Doesn't matter I suppose, I ain't going for it.

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Was Biden a drunk frat boy? Any claims of assault or bad behavior? Can you not see the difference? Your ability to compare and conflate as equal two different things never ceases to amaze me. Is that prejudice on YOUR part, or just politics.

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Was Biden a drunk frat boy? I don't know. Do you? As to Kavanaugh, he was in high school when this supposed incident took place, so he was not a frat boy at that point. Can you assure us you never drank in high school or college? If so, then wouldn't that put you in the same category as Judge K other than not having a bogus charge of assault filed against you?

There is an allegation of bad behavior of Biden now, but you are completely willing to wait for the evidence. Why weren't you willing to do that for Kavanaugh?

Just let the EVIDENCE lead in all this. If there is evidence, let's here it, thoroughly....If there isn't any evidence, let's just let things go.

I never liked frat boys: I always said that they were the best friends money could buy! But, I don't believe in guilt by association either or that you can stereotype people because of their associations with a given group: You just don't know the context of the relationship or the individual specimen's behavior. I will say this, though: Many people ACT differently in groups than they do individually...its the pack mentality.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Was Biden a drunk frat boy? I don't know. Do you? As to Kavanaugh, he was in high school when this supposed incident took place, so he was not a frat boy at that point. Can you assure us you never drank in high school or college? If so, then wouldn't that put you in the same category as Judge K other than not having a bogus charge of assault filed against you?

There is an allegation of bad behavior of Biden now, but you are completely willing to wait for the evidence. Why weren't you willing to do that for Kavanaugh?

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He was a drunk frat boy in college, according to his college mates, but not a peep about Biden, and for the record I was guzzling Wild Irish Rose among other things at a young age and through HS and college and beyond until I saw the light. Drunk maybe but no assaults against women ever. Do brawls count? Plenty of those too. I own my words, and actions, and history, no Boy Scouts here. Not so sure about how bogus his assault allegation was, he was never charged, but I believe the victim's testimony unproved and unsubstantiated as it was. I know a lot of females in that same situation, too many to be dismissed summarily, sham investigation notwithstanding!

If you think I would believe allegations by a lying cheating dufus or his ilk on ANY subject without some damn hard evidence then you mistake me for someone else. I have more common sense than that. Like you said allegations are not evidence, and he was a drunk frat boy, and no comparison to me, or Joe!

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he was a drunk frat boy, and no comparison to me, or Joe!

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Well of course there is. He was a college student that sometimes drank too much just like you just said you were. There is, in fact, a very good comparison.

In Kavanaugh's case, he was never accused of sexual assault UNTIL he was nominated to the SC and was seen as giving the court a conservative majority. How interesting!! Does that remind you of Clarence Thomas??? So you are a conservative nominated to the SCOTUS and suddenly a woman who has been strangely silent all those years decides to come forward. And you wonder why I am suspicious?

Nothing to be suspicious of. You got the drunk frat boy who may or may not have assaulted a teen age girl on SCOTUS, just like you got a lying cheating dufus in POTUS. Still you beetch! Save it for when we dump the dufus.

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You got the drunk frat boy who may or may not have assaulted a teen age girl

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But the same thing is true of you and me except we were not in fraternities. But for all you know, or for all I know, the other one might have done that very thing. And that's what happens when you support these partisan witch hunts. You cheapen the process of justice and reduce it to nothing more than believing unsupported allegations simply because of politics.

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just like you got a lying cheating dufus in POTUS.

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You had the same thing in Obama, but it didn't bother you with him. Politics.

You slam us we slam you, okay that's politics. So what now? I suggest you learn to duck when you see rocks in my hand. Oh, wait Itold you that already. You may as well relax and enjoy the popcorn like me and Vac. Watch him, he likes popcorn and is rather greedy with his big hands.

Wonder what the State Dept. IG wants to see the bi partisan, bucameral, multi commitee about?

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You slam us we slam you, okay that's politics. So what now? I suggest you learn to duck when you see rocks in my hand. Oh, wait Itold you that already. You may as well relax and enjoy the popcorn like me and Vac. Watch him, he likes popcorn and is rather greedy with his big hands.

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Maybe we ought to be concerned about the truth.

Start with the dufus is a lying cheating bully with a self serving agenda. Not a fit leader at all for this nation. Unfortunately we got what we deserve.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Start with the dufus is a lying cheating bully with a self serving agenda. Not a fit leader at all for this nation. Unfortunately we got what we deserve.

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well at least you recognise that, you deserve him

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Start with the dufus is a lying cheating bully with a self serving agenda. Not a fit leader at all for this nation. Unfortunately we got what we deserve.

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Your protest would sound a lot more genuine if it had started several years earlier with the many scandals of the Obama administration. Your selective outrage just rings hollow now.

Paraclete & Talaniman: Got news for you: ALL of the Congress and Senate are also crooks...it doesn't start or stop with Trump: Not a one of them is clean: How else do you reconcile their personal wealth compared to their salaries? YOU CAN'T DO IT! If you started having investigative "COMMITTEES" delving into every member of Congress and Senate, you would find every single of them is filthy after a couple of years. Even that idealistic, young, beautiful, gorgeous, dreamy looking Congress woman from N.Y., Miss AOC, who happens to be socialists, is, more likely than not, well on her way already to becoming tainted with what appears to be legalized theft.


The American people's views of what constitutes an elected official is "Institutionalized" in our thought processes about career politicians being considered "normal", expected behavior for the leadership in the U.S.: This is all they know, at this point! It is no less akin to those populations that have been born and raised under dictatorships thinking that that is the normal behavior and mechanics of how the "system" is supposed to operate. The Founding Fathers did not intend for people to get into Congress and Senate and sit their asses ensconced for life! That was never intended!

I would be very happy if the U.S. NEVER EVER HAD ANOTHER CAREER POLITICIAN AS POTUS. Trump isn't the man for the job? O.K.....but that doesn't mean that we should revert back to our old way of pulling a denizen out of the swamp and putting him in as POTUS. Trump's "SWAMP" analogy isn't that far off the mark.

Words cannot express how happy I am that AOC is a democrat and not a republican.

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Paraclete & Talaniman: Got news for you: ALL of the Congress and Senate are also crooks...it doesn't start or stop with Trump: Not a one of them is clean:

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I wouldn't go quite that far. I think there are some honest members, but yes, many of them are corrupt. The difference is that a career politician, like Obama, for instance, becomes skilled at cover up. They never come out and say completely what they believe. They manipulate the fog very well. Trump, on the other hand, just thinks it and says it. You might not like him, but at least you do know where he stands.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Your protest would sound a lot more genuine if it had started several years earlier with the many scandals of the Obama administration. Your selective outrage just rings hollow now.

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It's MY outrage and I will select who took aim it at.

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

Paraclete & Talaniman: Got news for you: ALL of the Congress and Senate are also crooks...it doesn't start or stop with Trump: Not a one of them is clean: How else do you reconcile their personal wealth compared to their salaries? YOU CAN'T DO IT! If you started having investigative "COMMITTEES" delving into every member of Congress and Senate, you would find every single of them is filthy after a couple of years. Even that idealistic, young, beautiful, gorgeous, dreamy looking Congress woman from N.Y., Miss AOC, who happens to be socialists, is, more likely than not, well on her way already to becoming tainted with what appears to be legalized theft.


The American people's views of what constitutes an elected official is "Institutionalized" in our thought processes about career politicians being considered "normal", expected behavior for the leadership in the U.S.: This is all they know, at this point! It is no less akin to those populations that have been born and raised under dictatorships thinking that that is the normal behavior and mechanics of how the "system" is supposed to operate. The Founding Fathers did not intend for people to get into Congress and Senate and sit their asses ensconced for life! That was never intended!

I would be very happy if the U.S. NEVER EVER HAD ANOTHER CAREER POLITICIAN AS POTUS. Trump isn't the man for the job? O.K.....but that doesn't mean that we should revert back to our old way of pulling a denizen out of the swamp and putting him in as POTUS. Trump's "SWAMP" analogy isn't that far off the mark.

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I got nothing against better vetting, or MAYBE term limits.