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My link only referred to about 90,000 total and 50,000 or so voting, so I have no idea how you could come up with the figures you used, but I like yours a lot better! 3 million is a lot more serious than "merely" 58,000. And you wonder why we conservatives want voter ID. Nonsense just like this is the reason why.Quote:
I actually used YOUR post and link to cross reference your article with local news TV reports.
Again from your link
Quote:
were a result of an 11-month investigation with the Texas Department of Public Safety that also found that about 58,000 people on the list had voted since 1996.
23 years by my count and no telling if the status of those had changed in that time. With no prosecutions then like you're wall solution to illegal immigration, your voter fraud crisis is overblown BS!
Now let's see. Millions are here illegally, with the number growing daily, but we don't need a wall. And if we use your figure, millions have voted illegally, but nothing to worry about there either. I guess we just view things differently.Quote:
23 years by my count and no telling if the status of those had changed in that time. With no prosecutions then like you're wall solution to illegal immigration, your voter fraud crisis is overblown BS!
All those mexicans taking back the country you stole from them, how is manifest destiny looking now?
Ever heard of the republic of Texas? Have you heard of how Mexico seceded from Spain, who had taken the land from indian nations? Check your history.
The republic of Texas, a very short lived nation who gave in to manifest destiny. I expect they didn't want to be a barrier nation and so they became a barrier state. The republic of Texas stole the land. They were invited in as settlers and rebelled, starting a war, and in the longer term The US invaded Mexico and took even more land. How's that for history, not the nice sanitised version and the daring do of the Alamo is it?
You americans don't want to admit that all you want to do is expand by conquest, it is in your blood, in the very nature of your peoples extending far back in history since you are the successors to those european and asiatic hordes who were forever moving west. Enough history for you?
As I said, Spain took land from the indians. Mexico rebelled against Spain. Texas declared its independence from Mexico. The United and Mexico fought a war resulting in Mexico ceding land to the U.S. Was it all nice and moral? Probably not, just like the history of Australia was not. Was Australia already settled by natives when your ancestors arrived? Are those natives still in control of things?
There is no evidence at this time that millions have voted illegally, or that a wall will stop illegals from getting here. Putting people in jail hasn't stopped drugs either, so maybe the solutions you propose to solve those problems are a waste of money and grossly inadequate.Quote:
Now let's see. Millions are here illegally, with the number growing daily, but we don't need a wall. And if we use your figure, millions have voted illegally, but nothing to worry about there either. I guess we just view things differently.
Let's just stop listening to a lying cheating dufus and his merry band of sycophants. LOL, here in Texas the ranchers and landowners are still fighting Bush's eminent domain attempt for his FENCE. So yeah we see things very differently.
Everybody throughout the history of man calls their conflicts something to justify and sanitize the brutal savage and bloody actions that facilitate their conquests. That's just the history and nature of man.Quote:
All those mexicans taking back the country you stole from them, how is manifest destiny looking now?
There were natives here when the British arrived just as they were in your own nation. They were not organised hardly more than scattered family groups. There was some resistance at times but just as in your own nation gold changed everything. As to the natives being in control, they would like to be, but as a minority their voice is heard more in protest than governance but their ethos exists here. Even after 200 years they still protest invasion and the fact we dare to celebrate the arrival of those ill fated convictsQuote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I was using your figures. "Then they fudge the numbers for example 3 million illegals voted, and leave out the 10 year period of the finding," If there is no evidence, then why did you state that?Quote:
There is no evidence at this time that millions have voted illegally,
There are some walled areas on the border. Where they are, there is very little border crossing. It is actually established that walls stop illegal crossings.Quote:
that a wall will stop illegals from getting here
So where do they find all those ranchers that have been interviewed and are in favor of a wall? And if all you Texans see things differently, then why did you overwhelmingly vote for the candidate in favor of the wall?Quote:
Let's just stop listening to a lying cheating dufus and his merry band of sycophants. LOL, here in Texas the ranchers and landowners are still fighting Bush's eminent domain attempt for his FENCE. So yeah we see things very differently.
So how did that manifest destiny work out for you? Isn't this the pot calling the kettle black?Quote:
There were natives here when the British arrived just as they were in your own nation. They were not organised hardly more than scattered family groups. There was some resistance at times but just as in your own nation gold changed everything. As to the natives being in control, they would like to be, but as a minority their voice is heard more in protest than governance but their ethos exists here. Even after 200 years they still protest invasion and the fact we dare to celebrate the arrival of those ill fated convicts
The British conquered everybody at one time or another, but like most empires, they have shrunk, but Australia like America became independent and even trusted allies because of that common ancestry. Alliances are often better than colonies, and no doubt all intend to keep it that way. You overwhelmed the natives just with NUMBERS since you had the power to declare your migrants LEGAL and sanctioned by the British government (And then the Australian government). Pretty much how the America's were conquered by the British with competing Euro interests. What money couldn't buy people with guns could, and did.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
I was just reporting JL, the figures they used which THEY fudged, but it's not the numbers, but the SPIN because to create certain laws and sell them to the public there must be a crisis or condition to justify them. I mean FACT is though there are cases of fraud, why aren't there 3 MILLION people going to jail? So despite all the rhetoric and legislation they haven't caught but a handful of people as the said article points out, so evidence points to a great exaggeration of the problem, to mask another intent.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Another fact people don't know is that border guards already know full well the flaws in the fence and that's where they concentrate the resources. Go ahead, build a wall, and somebody blows a hole in it and floods the zone with people to overwhelm the guards patrolling that area. Imagine blowing 4 holes in your wall and flooding people through them. LOL, even for every tunnel you find imagine 8 more that you don't.Quote:
There are some walled areas on the border. Where they are, there is very little border crossing. It is actually established that walls stop illegal crossings.
Dude Texas is a huge state, and a republican voting one, even with all us liberals running around. Many didn't vote because of this wall nonsense, or despite it, but if you need more links besides the ones I have already supplied then here we go.Quote:
So where do they find all those ranchers that have been interviewed and are in favor of a wall? And if all you Texans see things differently, then why did you overwhelmingly vote for the candidate in favor of the wall?
https://www.npr.org/2017/02/23/51689...on-border-wall
Quote:
Large federal land acquisition projects typically take years. Today, 91of the landowner cases in South Texas remain open and evenmore are expected. When Trump signed his executive order last month calling for his "big beautiful wall," Hanen knew what that would mean. "What I thought was, 'Oh, this is going to be a lot more work for us,' " Hanen says. "It's gonna be a lot of headache. The people in South Texas, there are a lot of hard feelings about the wall."
Australians have a right to call the conquest of their land anything they want.Quote:
So how did that manifest destiny work out for you? Isn't this the pot calling the kettle black?
You believed the figures, wherever you got them from, enough to state them. You can't have it both ways.Quote:
I was just reporting JL, the figures they used which THEY fudged
Yeah, those Mexicans are always blowing up walls and then rushing thousands of illegals through. It's happened so many times in the past, like ZERO times. Next you'll be saying they'll use army tanks to demolish the wall and then army trucks to rush the illegals through. You do have a vivid imagination. I'll give you that. As for the tunnels, that is a threat, but having to use tunnels means the numbers are reduced to a relative trickle, and if we can cut illegal immigration by 80% or 90% by constructing a wall, then I'm all for it.
No, I will not look up your article. It will be no more useful than the last ten ones you have posted.
Again, Texas voted overwhelmingly for the guy who promised to build the wall. No, I do not believe that Texas is opposed to the wall.
Don't underestimate what Mexicans, or Central Americans will do, nor their resourcefulness. Yeah blowing a hole through the wall was a hypothetical as was your assumption that all Texans are for the wall. 4 in 10 Texans did vote for Hillary. So it's very accurate to say a lot of Texans oppose the wall. I can say that about most Americans in general, especially if you shut the government down to get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Sorry you don't read my links or disagree with them, so I won't present the FACTS to back my assertion that illegal immigration has gone down in the last decade and deportations are up, WITHOUT A WALL, and I can get a lot of people and dope through a tunnel you didn't/haven't found, but most of it comes through the LEGAL points of entry with commerce. To add a growing number of your illegals flew here LAWFULLY, but stayed after their documents expired, and a wall won't help that.
So let me ask about the dufus plan to spend my tax dollars on walls and such to keep illegals out while employing hundred at his personal properties. Is that hypocrisy, or should we believe he just didn't know?
Your imagination is at work again. I have never said or assumed that.Quote:
your assumption that all Texans are for the wall.
You are correct that the wall will not stop all illegal crossings, anymore than you locking your door will prevent thieves (or Mueller's team!) from breaking in, but it does make it more difficult and therefore less likely. The wall does the same thing.
Politifact says illegal immigration is the lowest in 17 years, but that is based on how many were caught crossing, so I don't know how accurate that "guesstimate" would be. Still, sounds reasonable. I think we would agree that we also need to address the issue of the millions who are here now and are unlikely to simply return home.
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...rs-trump-said/
Nope, the wall won't do that. Instead, it will prevent family and business interactions between people living in the two countries, prevent animal migrations, anger Texans whose private property is taken by the federal government, and won't be high enough or deep enough. A wall didn't work for Hadrian or the Chinese, nor did the Berlin Wall work for East Germany.Quote:
You are correct that the wall will not stop all illegal crossings ... but it does make it more difficult and therefore less likely. The wall does the same thing.
Why not remove our lust for illegal drugs? That includes legalizing certain ones and getting serious about treating drug addiction. If there's no market....
You don't know your history. All three walls you mentioned worked quite well for a long period of time. In fact, the Berlin wall worked so well that one of the first acts upon the fall of the Soviets was to dismantle it. And, of course, there will still be crossing points, as there are now, so business and LEGITIMATE crossings will not be affected. As to migrations, that is also already in discussion as to how to mitigate those effects.Quote:
Nope, the wall won't do that. Instead, it will prevent family and business interactions between people living in the two countries, prevent animal migrations, anger Texans whose private property is taken by the federal government, and won't be high enough or deep enough. A wall didn't work for Hadrian or the Chinese, nor did the Berlin Wall work for East Germany.
Remove our lust for illegal drugs by legalizing them? Yes. That will certainly dial back their use. Are you kidding? Show me where the legalization of drugs has resulted in their use diminishing. Dope is now legal in Cally and Colo. Has the use increased or decreased? We have a "fun mentality" in our country and a loss of appreciation that all we have came from, and belongs to, God. We have lost the sense of the value of life and a responsibility to use our's wisely. Maybe we could start emphasizing that.
I said legalizing CERTAIN ones. How you misquote and change what was meant!
P.S. Building a wall is stoopid.
If you say you want to legalize "certain ones", then you want to legalize drugs. I didn't suggest you wanted to legalize them all. I don't think I changed your meaning, but OK. Which "certain ones" would you legalize?
um there is an OBVIOUS difference between a border fence to keep invaders out and the Berlin wall intended to keep East Germans enslaved . Both the Dems and Republicans supported and paid for a 274 mile wall between Jordan and Iraq and Syria to keep the Islamic State out of Jordon last year . Spare me the nonsense that walls don't work . The Egyptian steel wall in the Sinai has been very effective in stopping smuggling into or from Egypt by Hamas . Spain's wall has been effective in reducing human trafficking from Morocco . In 2014, approximately 19,000 people attempted to cross into Spain.. That number diminished to approximately 3,700 in 2015 .There have been a number of new walls built in Europe to stem the flow of migrants .
The ones trying to cross are refugees looking for a safe place to live and immigrants looking for work that pays a living wage. The drugrunners come here from China via the ocean ports. (And from Canada -- hmmmm, we need a wall....)
Yes, you changed my meaning!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I haven't researched which currently illegal drugs are being used and which of those should be legalized. *putting on my librarian hat*
Well, I guess we'll just wait.Quote:
I haven't researched which currently illegal drugs are being used and which of those should be legalized. *putting on my librarian hat*
Help yourself to a few opioids in that bowl on the coffeetable.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Border patrol today interdicted the largest illegal fentanyl shipment ever at the Mexican border . 254 lb worth .But heroin is the biggest threat according to the DEA and 2nd easiestonly to pot to obtain. The primary source is from poppy fields grown in Mexico and imported into the US by the cartels .The fentanyl is primarily made in China and smuggled into the US through the southern border although a growing trend is to ship into ports or in parcels sent direct from China.
The weakest argument to me in favor of the wall is drug interdiction. Unless the demand side of drug abuse is addressed then interdiction is at best a half measure .
You talk of refugees ? Well that is debatable because there is no provision in US law or international law that allows for economic refugee status .There are laws for the admission of refugees into the country and that does not include the bum rushing of the border . Refugee applications should be made BEFORE entry into the country and anyone who violates that is breaking the law and should be dealt with appropriately with immediate deportation .
...after their children are taken away and sent to camps where they will be drugged and kept in cages.Quote:
Refugee applications should be made BEFORE entry into the country and anyone who violates that is breaking the law and should be dealt with appropriately with immediate deportation .
Yeah, and those high schoolers from Kentucky assaulted a nice Native American man who is a Vietnam veteran.Quote:
.after their children are taken away and sent to camps where they will be drugged and kept in cages.
One story is about as true as the other.
Assaulted? You apparently haven't been keeping up with emerging details on that story.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
You're saying no children were separated from parents and then drugged and caged?
I was saying that the high school kids story was about as true as you suggesting taking kids from parents and putting them into cages is standard operating procedure by the border patrol.Quote:
Assaulted? You apparently haven't been keeping up with emerging details on that story.
come here legally ;problem solved . I am not swayed by sob stories .
My brother!Quote:
come here legally ;problem solved . I am not swayed by sob stories .
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Tom I know you are trying to address the practicalities rather than the political nuiances, however the border wall is a political issue. Like locks, walls only stop honest people. As these illegals have overwhelmed the border, the practicalities of finding, arresting and deporting millions is daunting to say the least, which is why it hasn't happened. There is a way but you liberty loving will not take it. Identity card, photo ID, only obtainable by proving citizenship. Without it and a Green Card where applicable, anyone caught by whatever means, violation, traffic stop, etc and you can do your catch and release once you have solved the problem of how to actually transport millions and have them accepted Those FEMA camps would come in handy
I guess that's why they put them around prisons?? Around the Vatican?Quote:
walls only stop honest people.
It's also true that door locks only stop honest people, but we all use them. Why? Because it's makes it much more difficult for DIShonest people to cross, and therefore slows down the traffic. Same thing is true of border guards, but no one suggests we do away with them.
I'm tempted to agree with you, but having to have your "papers" with you at all times reminds me too much of Nazi Germany.Quote:
Without it and a Green Card where applicable, anyone caught by whatever means, violation, traffic stop, etc and you can do your catch and release once you have solved the problem of how to actually transport millions and have them accepted Those FEMA camps would come in handy.
Do you drive without a drivers licence? If you travel overseas do you take your passport with you? I don't see the differenceQuote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I see your point, but the DL is only to show that you are a qualified driver. To have to identify yourself for simply sitting in your house or walking down the street seems excessive.
Where I come from driver's licence is defacto photo ID and I carry a Social Security ID and a Medicare ID both issued by the government. It is no big deal, But one thing for sure no one can say I'm not a citizenQuote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Pretty much the same thing here. Most people have their DL all the time and we old folk carry our medicare card with us, but very few carry a SS card since people love to steal SS numbers in order to make a fake credit card account. However, in many states, an illegal immigrant can get a DL, so that becomes less reliable.Quote:
Where I come from driver's licence is defacto photo ID and I carry a Social Security ID and a Medicare ID both issued by the government. It is no big deal, But one thing for sure no one can say I'm not a citizen.
In order to get any kind of bank account here you need three forms of ID, a passport or drivers licence, mail with your address on it such as a utility bill, and the other ID's.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
The law actually says that any immigrant can apply for asylum, and be duly processed and adjudicated. A great deal of them do get deported. Hiding kids not new nor losing them either and it did make Obama stop and change the process, but the dufus brought it back on steroids until a court stepped in.
Not sure about legalizing anything but pot, but for sure it, and other drugs should be reclassified and decriminalized immediately. At least a chance for some to get clean enough to pass the drug test for first hires, and help for the working slug. At least like they do for drinkers. Which I think is a highly more destruct drug than is pot. But there has always been a huge market for a variety of drugs here. That's not going to be solved with jails or walls or treatment. That 254 lbs. of the fent is probably a small amount compared to what they didn't find though for sure.
Wonder how much the dufus made of his illegals? He sends in a request every year for cheap labor, and I doubt if he cares about the papers. Obviously it's been going on for whatever reason for a long time since those fired folks been here for many years working for him.
What a strange attitude towards freedom we are developing in our country. Free to smoke pot (and at least according to WG, free to take certain drugs now illegal), freedom to marry same sex, but not free to choose not to participate in that wedding. Freedom for a man to go into the women's restroom so long as he is wearing a dress. Just a strange series of events. I don't think we value the true meaning of freedom anymore.
JL, have you ever been in a women's washroom? Do you know how they're designed?Quote:
Freedom for a man to go into the women's restroom so long as he is wearing a dress.
Strange to say, I have. Twice, to be exact, and both times inadvertently. I'm sure you are trying to make the point that there are toilets in stalls, so there is privacy. Now if you want your 10 year old daughter in the restroom with a man on that basis, then go for it, but I think it's a basically crazy idea with no justification other than the equally crazy idea that if a man thinks he is a woman, then he surely must be.Quote:
JL, have you ever been in a women's washroom? Do you know how they're designed?
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