No doubt your side will point out that the dems had blame in torturing prisoners too. So what? It's out there so we can holler about it, rather than have it buried.

You like to holler, ME TOO!

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No doubt your side will point out that the dems had blame in torturing prisoners too

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Well that's a given. Reditions were going on during the Clintoon regime .The difference is that we did not sqawk about it because it was the right thing to do. Your sanctimonious Feinstein doesn't fool me . She turned a blind eye when those reditioned under the Clintoons were turned over to countries where real torture took place.

That does make Americans self righteous hypocrites doesn't it?

war is hell . The only moral way to fight one is the use overwhelming force to crush the enemy as quickly as possible .

So Tom rendition is the right thing to do? Sounds like an end justifies the means argument to me and that is right wing, nazi, objective in what way are you different you would eliminate whole populations with you bomb them and be damned thinking

Proportionality prolongs war and that is what is immoral.

Yes we saw that in 1945 Tom I understand the idea that populations who harbour terrorists are equally guilty just as the Germans and the Japanese www guilty by association however you don't need to remove people unless you are going to do something illegal. Bombing civilian populations however simple a solution doesn't bring victory without annihilation your nation was once fair nation but is becoming that which you hate

During the height of the cold war we were willing to accept the launch of thousands of ICBM and accept casualties in the millions on both sides within hours of a war beginning . We have used drones with targeted missile strikes that cause collateral damage ,and have employed assassination squads . So spare me the outrage over some of the interrogation techniques . What Feinstein did was a cheap sucker punch to our intelligence agencies. My biggest concern is the fallout . She of course will not take any personal responsibility for that .

And neither she should, exposing lies in in government is public service, exposing regime excesses is public service. The end never justifies the means. If you and the soviets had wiped each other out we would have all perished and for what? So you could say you were right? It is a great pity you have never met the people you would bury so easily. I recall a line from a movie that went a little like this when Rome falls there will be shout of freedom and the same applies to the US and for exactly the same reason, your integres and your reckless endangerment of others

Whatever you might think the bomb was a bad thing. Now ISIS is also a bad thing but would you unleash the bomb on Syria to save few Syrian lives? On Irak? On Afghanistan?

When the United States, long a beacon for the oppressed and the marginal and those seeking freedom, takes a page from the Gestapo playbook, I no longer know what country I am living in.

There is a giant tear rolling down the cheek of the Statue of Liberty.

Thank you athos I think we all share that thought, there are some who really do miss the point. I was thinking today about who can we trust in this world and I realised there are very few that you could trust with great power or great advancement, they are just not up to the responsibility

Feinstein's Senate Intelligence Committee(SIC) report suffers the same deficiencies as Rolling Stone's reporter Sabrina Rubin Erdely's conclusions on campus rape at UVA . Neither bothered to talk to the accused. Both came to conclusions before they ever bothered to collect the facts. Then after coming to conclusions they cherry picked facts to support their predetermined conclusion.
In the case of the Intel committee ,they began their investigation presupposing that the CIA ,and the Bush Adm acted illegally . After 5 years and $40 million of taxpayer money spent on their investigation the SCI published their report with only Democrat members signing on to it's conclusions. Most of the work on the 'facts 'was compiled by Dem staffers and not trained investigators .CIA bosses and staffers did not refuse to provide testimony as so many members of the emperor's team have done. Instead ,they were never asked to testify .The most the committee had was CIA produced emails and documents lacking context .
The report also fails badly in that it makes no recommendations for change . No one makes the claim that methods and procedures were perfect . They were hastily formed immediately after the 9-11 attacks , the DC sniper case ,and the Antrax attacks. The immediate concern and message that our leaders heard from the American people was 'keep us safe'. Since there were no further attacks ,and many foiled plots we can make the conclusion that in that regard ;our intel agencies succeeded . So we know right off the bat that the SIC conclusion that the methods were ineffective is false.
What SIC also fails to mention is that not only did the Justice Dept give the approval ,but that ALL senior member of Congress were briefed . None objected .

On the contrary ;here is what Feinstein said in 2002 :
'I have no question in my mind that had it not been for 9/11 -- and I'd do anything if it hadn't happened -- that it would have been business as usual,'' said Senator Dianne Feinstein, Democrat of California. ''It took that real attack, I think, to kind of shiver our timbers enough to let us know that the threat is profound, that we have to do some things that historically we have not wanted to do to protect ourselves.''( New York Times, May 26, 2002)


Here is what a group of former CIA chiefs had to say about the report :

"The recently released Senate Select Committee on Intelligence Majority report on the CIA's Rendition, Detention, and Interrogation Program is marred by errors of facts and interpretation and is completely at odds with the reality that the leaders and officers of the Central Intelligence Agency lived through. It represents the single worst example of Congressional oversight in our many years of government service."

Tom you know and so do I that 9/11 was an excuse to strengthen the hand of the security forces. The threat was actually very small a few isolated incidents but in the mind of the public, horrific. The terrorists succeeded, they brought terror to their enemy. Even now the ISIS threat is not large but the ineffectiveness of security forces in various places makes the problem look huge and it will be a excuse for creative intelligence gathering, It is simple; just increase the supply of a few implements and look away and give your government plausiable denyability

Lindt Chocolat Cafe hostage drama in Martin Place, Sydney

I cannot imagine the significance of Islamic militants taking over a chocolate shop far from Syria, do they want to establish the Cacao Caliphate? Perhaps the owners are Jewish but even so this can have no effect on anything but the high potential of getting yourself shot. If you wanted to make a public display of the cause, Martin Place, though a significant central city plaza is hardly full of Christmas shoppers, it is the heart of the finance sector and offers the security services plenty of room to deploy and keep the public away. Even the nearby urban transit station offers a train ride to nowhere

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The threat was actually very small a few isolated incidents

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hindsight is 20-20 .

Attachment 46920

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6yLQRF-cEU

You lost me there Tom. Yes hindsight is 20-20 and it seems your intelligence services are still not up to speed, this incident this morning is very close to the US embassy, perhaps it's a message, we have your latte' captive

WakeWake up Clete, stop acting like it's about US! Its about you too, and many more besides just you Aussies! Think global, and collaborate intelligence as this is a shared problem. Obviously your intelligence agencies have failed you too!

You should have seen this stunt coming!

Hi Tal we did see it coming and raised the terror alert months ago but this was a lone wolf action, a somewhat deranged individual. The only way we could have prevented this is not to allow political asylum and muslim immigration. You might consider that this happened outside the US embassy and you didn't see it coming

In you country this fellow would have been languishing in prison under your three strikes rule, maybe we should think about locking people up for life too, that might have prevented this

Sydney siege: Man behind Martin Place stand-off was Iranian Man Haron Monis, who had violent criminal history - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Whatever you might think Tal the actions of the US and its allies in the middle east are a trigger for much violence and the rise of organisations like al qaeda and ISIS. It is time you took responsibility. Who knows, maybe the release of the terror report was enough for this person to think he was going to be treated the same way

blame America 1st . Some things never change .

He was raving about america and other things on his blog and Facebook as was his partner who admitted being a terrorist so he blamed america. Once again you want to shoot the messenger rather than accepting the message. While we are talking about america, some american nut case wanted to tell us our tight gun laws caused this rather than recognising that because of them, this nutcase couldn't get hold of an assault weapon and also please contrast the community reaction, no marches protesting the slaying of the perpetrator, no destruction of property and the rule of law pervailed even though a member of a minority was shot by police. What came out of it was solidarity not division, so tell me Tom who's democracy works?

Your democracy works for you, ours works for us, so stop comparing.

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also please contrast the community reaction, no marches protesting the slaying of the perpetrator, no destruction of property and the rule of law pervailed even though a member of a minority was shot by police. What came out of it was solidarity not division,

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More delusional ranting with the usual scrambling of facts?!

His attack is similar to the 1990 attack in Berkeley, Calif. by Iranian, Mehrdad Dashti. He also had a long record of criminal acts.He took about 16 people hostage declaring himself a "devout" Muslim to justify his acts.
But his past record doesn't mean that he's not part of the ongoing jihadist war on the West. He's the latest manifestation of it's tactics. If his beef was against America than why did he do his attack against citizens of the country that took him in after his bogus claim of asylum ?
You are clearly taking the wrong irrelevent message from the Ferguson and Staten Island incidents . If you are looking for a comparison then a better example would be the Boston Marathon attack. In both case the evidence was available to the law enforcement ,intel and government decision makers that the attackers were radical and could likely attack. They were given the protections enjoyed by citizens and residents of the host country and used that generosity ,like Mordred ,as a weakness of his target. Political correctness no doubt played a big role in both cases. Anything but the truth: that he is an Islamofascist Terrorist.
Your dismissing him as a lone wolf at your peril . Jihadistan has a campaign to radicalize the so called disillusioned . That leads to hatchet attacks in NYC ,stabbings in the Canadian Parliament ,and chocolate cafe attacks in Sydney . But here if the NYC police dept spies on the Mosques they are the bad guys.

He is a lone wolf in that he didn't have others backing him up but there can be no doubt he was a radical who preached a message of hate and attempted to recruit others. There are real questions about why he was at large, serious questions that go to probity in the judicial process, and serious questions regarding intelligence failure. What we have here is a magistrate second quessing the prosecution case in a murder indictment. What is strange is he was an iranian sunni convert. There are american associations with his dead wife's family with threats made so the whole incident is very murky and motivations may or may not have anything to do with jihad and may have a lot to do with being a psycopath

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More delusional ranting with the usual scrambling of facts?!

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Tal the only thing delusional here is the idea that your hands are clean and we should look somewhereelse

Working hand are never clean, but we are no more responsible for the acts of NUTS, and criminals as you are. To be fair we are all helpless to some extent by their acts.

Horror over deadly Sydney siege turns to anger | Daily Mail Online

where did he get bail money to cover 40 -50 sexual assault charges ? and using the mail for criminal activity ,and accessory to murder charges ? or did he even have to make bail ?

Yes Tom as I said serious issues but bail wasn't set at an extortinate amount as it might be elsewhere, the surity was $1,000 cash, what is even more astonishing is that his partner was released on $100,000 bail on a murder charge where horrendous acts had been committed. I understand the bail application, it can take a long time for the hearing to proceed in a capital case, longer even than the sentence in some cases, but like yourself, I don't understand how it might be successful. I don't understand how a low court magistrate could be hearing a bail application in cases such as these. Even this fellows lawyers abandoned him because of the ideas he spouted and fellow prisoners are said to have defiled him while he was held in custody so he was seriously weird.

http://www.news.com.au/national/brea...-1227158650122

As to the sexual assault cases, they are not the most serious charges against him. It is as if he was able to gain the confidence of and power over women and misuse the position. The details of the murder charge don't indicate a crime of passion

http://www.smh.com.au/national/marti...16-128izi.html

these Islamists are perverts on top of all their other depravities.
Islamic State (ISIS) Releases Pamphlet On Female Slaves

Interesting side issue, Iran apparently sought his extradition for violence and fraud but it didn't happen due to refugee status, etc. We certainly get the dregs and it begs the question; how many more criminals are protected by refugee status? ISIS are certainly depraved but what can you expect from a death cult, they have no respect for anyone and I have heard even their recruits are subjected to appalling conditions and degradation. Maybe we need to look beyond the alleged persecution when assessing refugees. I firmly believe any refugee who commits a criminal act should be sent back irrespective of other considerations including citizenship.

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ISIS are certainly depraved but what can you expect from a death cult,

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Terrorism needs stronger and stronger stimuli to achieve the same result. Islamic State beheadings aren't shocking anymore . Not when the Taliban beheads mutilates and shoots over 130 school children ,and burns their teacher to death for good measure. That's the Taliban's revenge for Malala Yousafzai's Nobel Peace Prize.

This attack came one day after the emperor went to McGuire Air base in New Jersey to announce to the troops the US surrender in Afghanistan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4M4aXI9Ryo

I don't think the act in Pakistan has much to do with Obama's movements or Malala, it is revenge for the Pakistani military campaign in Waziristan. They are seeking to get another peace treaty they can ignore. American troops in Afghanistan just represent a convenient target so they can get a little publicity. Pakistan sowed the wind and reaped a whirlwind.

What is happening here is a few rag tag militants are defying a large military force in a long honoured tradition, there is a taint of religion about it

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I don't think the act in Pakistan has much to do with Obama's movements or Malala

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sure it does. I suppose you think that there is a big difference between the Afghanistan Taliban and the Paki Taliban like our leader tried to peddle.

Sometimes I think you have difficulty with comprehension, where did I say that?

Tom, in that part of the world its all family and the border is artificial. The tribal areas in Pakistan don't want to be ruled by Islamabad or anyoneelse and Afghanistan is part of their lands. The Taliban is a construct of Pakistan and it is now biting them on the backside bigtime. What Obama says or does is incidential to the ongoing fight. He could take a leaf out of your playbook and bomb them but that won't happen without Paki say so, so you keep funding this proxy war and move on, but don't let your troops get trapped in Kabul like the British did, because there is no border to retreat to and the Paki's won't rescue you as they did in Mogadishu. Remarkably similar circumstances developing, so learn the lessons of history

I'm sort of wondering; is ISIS a one hit wonder? We don't seem to hear much about them these days. Some sources say they have 200,000 fighters, those numbers sure escalated, propaganda there somewhere, but for 200,000 there must be a lot of sitting around and contemplating which Koranic scripture you will misintrepret next. Just maybe you need a lot of people to keep the slaves in check. ISIS gets press everywhere but where the fighting is supposed to be, a failure and they fizzle. Propaganda doesn't win battles, islamic rhetoric doesn't win battles and if you sit around someone is likely to bomb your leaders. I think the sheep must be very mistreated in Iraq and Syria

You ar just not following the news anymore.. They still assault Kobani ;but their assaut has stalled with the combined allied air power and Iraqi Kurd support . Yesterday peshmerga fighters fought their way to Sinjar mountain and freed hundreds of Yadisis trapped there . The Kurds have retaken much of the territory they lost. The Iraqi Army has rallied after it's initial failures .They are on a counter-offensive against the Islamic State .
But these items are boring to the lame main stream media. They'd rather talk about US waterboarding prisoners a decade ago ..

Naw Tom, this week is about Cuba, and North Korea hacking Sony.

yeah nice of the emperor to announce a policy that has been in effect since 2000 as if it is some new policy .
Trade Sanction Reform and Export Enhancement Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The one thing I'll say about it is that it makes more sense to ease sanctions on Cuba than it does Iran or the NORKS (2 of the original Axis of Evil ..... was Bush wrong about that too ? )

FBI statement today :

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"Today, the FBI would like to provide an update on the status of our investigation into the cyber attack targeting Sony Pictures Entertainment (SPE). In late November, SPE confirmed that it was the victim of a cyber attack that destroyed systems and stole large quantities of personal and commercial data. A group calling itself the “Guardians of Peace” claimed responsibility for the attack and subsequently issued threats against SPE, its employees, and theaters that distribute its movies.
The FBI has determined that the intrusion into SPE’s network consisted of the deployment of destructive malware and the theft of proprietary information as well as employees’ personally identifiable information and confidential communications. The attacks also rendered thousands of SPE’s computers inoperable, forced SPE to take its entire computer network offline, and significantly disrupted the company’s business operations.
After discovering the intrusion into its network, SPE requested the FBI’s assistance. Since then, the FBI has been working closely with the company throughout the investigation. Sony has been a great partner in the investigation, and continues to work closely with the FBI. Sony reported this incident within hours, which is what the FBI hopes all companies will do when facing a cyber attack. Sony’s quick reporting facilitated the investigators’ ability to do their jobs, and ultimately to identify the source of these attacks.
As a result of our investigation, and in close collaboration with other U.S. Government departments and agencies, the FBI now has enough information to conclude that the North Korean government is responsible for these actions. While the need to protect sensitive sources and methods precludes us from sharing all of this information, our conclusion is based, in part, on the following:
We are deeply concerned about the destructive nature of this attack on a private sector entity and the ordinary citizens who worked there. Further, North Korea’s attack on SPE reaffirms that cyber threats pose one of the gravest national security dangers to the United States. Though the FBI has seen a wide variety and increasing number of cyber intrusions, the destructive nature of this attack, coupled with its coercive nature, sets it apart. North Korea’s actions were intended to inflict significant harm on a U.S. business and suppress the right of American citizens to express themselves. Such acts of intimidation fall outside the bounds of acceptable state behavior. The FBI takes seriously any attempt – whether through cyber-enabled means, threats of violence, or otherwise – to undermine the economic and social prosperity of our citizens.
The FBI stands ready to assist any U.S. company that is the victim of a destructive cyber attack or breach of confidential business information. Further, the FBI will continue to work closely with multiple departments and agencies as well as with domestic, foreign, and private sector partners who have played a critical role in our ability to trace this and other cyber threats to their source. Working together, the FBI will identify, pursue, and impose costs and consequences on individuals, groups, or nation states who use cyber means to threaten the United States or U.S. interests."

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An act of war ......no ? Typically the US response to an act of war that was caused in retaliation to an offensive video would be to arrest the people /person who made the film/video . Sony execs should be quaking in their boots over the prospect .
With friends like the sdministration and Al Sharpton on their side ,what does Sony have to lose ?
Sharpton to have say over how Sony makes movies | New York Post

Who cares what Sharpton has to say? Why are you reading the NY Post for news?

does it matter which source ? The same info is in the NY Slimes too. Sharpton is doing a shakedown of Sony over some of the leaked emails.