Presidents cannot dictate.
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Presidents cannot dictate.
Someone needs to tell Obama that... he has been ignoring the memos...
Evita is ' hil' ~arious . She is using her 2012 brokered ceasefire deal between Hamas and Israel in her campaign as some kind of achievement . Part of the deal was that Israel would ease it's ban on shipping building supplies like cement and steel into Gaza .Even though Hamas had a well known history of diverting aid ,she believed them when they claimed they needed the supplies for infrastructure in Gaza. Little did she know that the infrastructure they would build would not be homes ,bridges etc. ,but an intricate network of terror tunnels. She states in her new biography that "my diplomatic intervention was the only thing standing in the way of a much more explosive confrontation."
She considers that an 'achievement' worthy of running for the highest office in the country . All she achieved was guaranteeing that the next time Hamas violated a ceasefire ,and confronted Israel militarily ,that it would be a bloodier affair.
Everyone knows she liked to prance around in a brown shirt, Nazi hat, and fishnet stockings and stilleto heels with a riding crop. With a Swaztika flag on the wall, all while raving about a "final solution.
Thats why Bill was chasing after Monica Lewinski, he developed hemeroids.
Yup, they planned to use some of those tunnels to target Israeli kindergartens. Nice job Hillary.
So you are proving that it would be better if the US stayed out of the negotiations
absolutely ... frankly the Israelis are getting tired of the US imposing solutions that will eventually cause more Israeli loss of life.
Yes no one is concerned about palestinian loss of life
Yet the israelis will gladly take the billions of dollars that the US hands over to them every year.
What has that to do with anything? You think it should come with strings attached? Kill a palestinian terrorist and we take away your funding. Perspective, the State of Israel does not attack the palestinians without provacation so the palestinians should tell hamas they have had enough instead of condoning it
Why are they getting money in the first place? Using the big business model, if they can't make a go of it on their own them let them fail.
If Hillary actually felt ANY of our pain... she would be the leading user of Oxycodone.
Karma, as an outpost of western civilization in the east and for various obvious racial reasons they are supported. Without support the arab/muslim world may find a solution no one wants
That's a weak statement to justify billions a year when the US debt has ballooned.Quote:
as an outpost of western civilization in the east and for various obvious racial reasons they are supported
and the reason we have spent billions on the Palestinians is ? BTW ,much of the aid to Israel is loan guarantees as opposed to the direct aid given to the Palestinians and many of the Arab nations.Quote:
Why are they getting money in the first place? Using the big business model, if they can't make a go of it on their own them let them fail
btw ,there is a whole discussion waiting about the useless EX-IM Bank and why it's authorization should be ended .
Karma without that aid Israel would have been swallowed up ages ago, you have to do something to stop world wars and since when were you concerned by US debt
If the aid was a loan guarantee as Tom said, then it doesn't add to the debt. But if the Iron Dome is working, why do they have to even reduce Gaza to rubble? What's the point of the siege and the fences? Something isn't right when you shoot so many innocents to get to a few terrorists, especially when the innocents cannot escape the carnage.
I don't think Israel is in danger of being swallowed up by anyone.
Nobody is shooting innocents... they are shooting terrorists... the So-called "innocents" are the people defending Hamas and who voted them into power. Meaning they really aren't innocent if they stand for Hamas using Hospitals, schools and apartments as weapons depots and rocket launch sites.
Let's put this in perspective Tal. Iron Dome didn't intercept all the rockets, there were thousands, which means multiple launch sites and a very highly organised attack. The response isn't just to bring down the rockets but an active defense which is to stop the attack and since it was coming from an urban area there is going to be damage. Hamas had no regard for their own population and brought any destruction upon the gazan population. The Allied forces leveled Germany in WWII and the only response to Hamas is the same tactic, make the price too great, but the israeli response must have been measured otherwise many more of the 1.8 million palestinians would have been dead. So there weren't "so many innocents" but unfortunately a small number relative to the population. The Israeli's told the population to leave area by area so their killing was not indescriminate. Killing children is depolorable but so is the attitude of the parents who did not remove them, who allowed them to live where hamas was setting up their rocket launchers.
My perspective on this is if you don't want to be killed don't allow terrorists to operate in your midst, and you don't know how many were killed by Hamas misfires and indiscriminate fighting
Well Tom, Clete, you don't go against the guys with guns, with rocks and sticks.
Tal there is probably a large number of weapons in the palestinian population and a few hundred terrorists but as was said earlier, these people elected Hamas and approved of their actions, you easily forget they stood on their rooftops and cheered on 9/11 so spare me the crocodile tears
Sorry I don't buy your assumptions, nor your assessment of people stuck in an imposed ghetto.
SELF imposed and slef created Ghetto. The Gaza strip was a far nicer place before Hamas got control of it.
Every place is nicer before the NUTS with guns show up.
Hardly... sometimes the guys with the guns turn it ito a nicer place... sometimes they don't. It all depends on who they are to begin with.
Yes you don't have to look far from home to see what the nuts with guns created, but I digress. Gaza was undoubtedly a nice place before 1948 but a mass migration of palestinians spoiled it. Those people went there by choice they were not forced to do so. This is the result of religious zealotry and generational hatred
Chicago? Los Angeles?
Unable to draw a comparison when were these cities bombed?
In LA, 1965, by the Blacks. Google Watts riots
Chicago... its been under siege by the criminal element since Before Al Capone.
Yes well I didn't think you needed to go that far
umm.... the idea is to STOP the rocket launches ;not to forever have to pick them out of the sky counting on 100% accuracy .Quote:
But if the Iron Dome is working, why do they have to even reduce Gaza to rubble?
if you have superior force you use it. Are you suggesting that if the Palestinians are using rocks that Israel should respond with rocks ? Strange .Quote:
Well Tom, Clete, you don't go against the guys with guns, with rocks and sticks.
I'm being verballed again
Yes it is part of the measured response, the palestinians throw rocks, the Israeli's should throw rocks, but when the palestinians throw rockets the israeli's are not supposed to retaliate with rockets launched from planes, you see, the debate is onesided because no one is supposed to get dead from these exercises in poor judgement. What I suggest is the Israeli arm themselves with trebuchet and when the palestinians throw rocks... Nowhere in the world is civil disorder not met with force, so when the palestinians throw rockets, they should get an equal number back.....
,
I never suggested the Israeli shouldn't use what they have at their disposal, perhaps be a little more discerning in their target, but then I also have the view that the problem will not be solved until all those palestinians are removed from Gaza. Perhaps if the Israeli were armed with rubber bullets as were security forces in other places with urban unrest then the response would hurt but not necessarily kill. Water cannons can also make a big mess
what you conveniently fail to mention is that Hamas use the Palestinian people as human shields. I am reminded that the allies completely destroyed the French city of Caen ,and 1570 other French cities liberating them from Nazi occupation. 68,778 French were killed in these attacks. The bombing of Caen and other Normandy towns cost 50,000 civilian deaths. Like the Israelis ,the allies did their best to let the civilian population know that they needed to evacuate the target areas . But the presence of civilians did not stop the allies from their military objectives.
Clete... no conflict in history has ever been won by one side tieing one arm behind their back because their opponent only had one arm.
Vietnam was a perfect contemporary example for why "Measured response" is the absolute worst way to wage a war...
Measured only in the sense of finding a way to strike only your enemy, don't tell me a sophisticated military mechine can't find a way to do that. No a blunt instrument is simpler, if Hamas uses human shields they are guilty by association, that is a bad response to what is similar to a hostage situation.
We cannot use the rationale of WWII here, that was two forces of equal strength, and what really made the difference was air power. I think the air power of the Israeli is well used but artillery is a blunt instrument. Look we know the problem will exist as long as Gaza exists, it is an enclave and no way there can be free passage through Israel to the west bank, a two state solution is nonsense. When you look at the destruction in Gaza ask yourself were there really that many rocket launchers? If so then the Israeli stopped too soon
Gaza should be destroyed because Most of the people in Gaza supports Hamas... they voted them in. THey all share the responsibility for their actions now too.
I have ZERO sympathy for any of them.
Most people learn as kids...don't pick a fight you don't have big enough balls to win, and if you do...don't cry when you get your butt kicked.
You hit on something Clete, how can the Israelis win by bombing people, and buildings AFTER they have launched a rocket and moved them? They haven't destroyed not one rocket launcher yet have they? They haven't even stopped the rockets from coming into the hands of Hamas either.
But I suppose that's the best they can do and makes them feel better even if it accomplishes NOTHING.
Tal... you can't launch or hide more rockets in a pile of rubble.
If your neighbor was shooting at your house every day....would you sit there and let them? I doubt it.
I would be shooting the shooters, not the whole neighborhood.
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