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And what government agency stops those from happening exactly? Its clear they aren't doing their jobs if they still happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
You are aware the first responders are local and state agencies... NOT the Federal government.
Dude a first responder is on the scene after emergencies happen. You can't stop a nut with a gun or a weather disaster, but you can help the victims. Its not any ones job to stop stuff from happening. No city or state has the resources for that but the feds do and that's the first one that's called after stuff happens.
What you think volunteers buy trucks and water for victims of that chemical spill in West Virginia? Think again.
There are no Federal first responders outside the military. I include the Coast Guard as military. All first responders are local employees, albeit not necessarily from the locality of the emergency. The only Federal employees to respond to emergencies are from FEMA, the Federal Emergency MANAGEMENT Agency, whose sole job is to co-ordinate volunteers and "borrowed" first responders.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Again... the FIRST responders are ALWAYS the local police and fire department... ALWAYS, none of them paid for by the Federal Government. NOT some idiot in the Federal government that got their job because they knew someone that owed them a favor. The Federal government are always Johnny-come-lately on the scene.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catsmine
And people would be shocked to find out that is not FEMA's primary responsibility. Its something completely unrelated that actually is. I know what it is... but does anyone else here know what it is.
If you call Bundy a squatter for a dispute involving grazing fees ,what do you call Warren Buffett ,who owes a $billion in back taxes ?Quote:
The squatter will get his under the process of the law
Why doesn't the government assault Berkshire Hathaway ?
Or MSNBC, where Sharpton owes almost $2 million.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
all get dealt with in due course, this time it was Bundy, an easy target, but persistence pays off
The way I figure it, soon Bundy must sell his cows to someone, an the feds will get their money. He could have let the feds take the cows and sell them at their expense and get a few bucks back but NOOO, he had to DEMAND their return and now he pays to take them to market, and still no profit the dufus.
Smart people mitigate their losses by cutting a deal they can live with but this hard head coot rather make face time for TV in a lost cause. I have been trying to find the local Cattleman's Association supporting him, which if they don't is telling despite the out of towners with guns, Alex Jones, and Shaun Hannity. Oh wait The CA has issued a statement.
Nevada Cattlemen comment on Bundy dispute
In light of this statement, I would have more sympathy if he had acted more reasonably within the law, but since he didn't, I don't.Quote:
Nevada Cattlemen's Association (NCA) works hard to change regulations detrimental to the sound management of public lands in a lawful manner and supports the concept of multiple uses on federally managed lands and encourages members of the livestock industry to abide by regulations governing federal lands.
Furthermore, Nevada Cattlemen's Association supports effective range management through collaboration with resource management agencies and interested parties to achieve rangeland management goals for economically viable ranch operations and the conservation of wildlife species.
With the above stated this case was reviewed by a federal judge and a decision was rendered to remove the cattle. Nevada Cattlemen's Association does not feel it is our place to interfere in the process of adjudication in this matter. Additionally, NCA believes the matter is between Mr. Bundy and the Federal Courts.
We regret that this entire situation was not avoided through more local government involvement and better implementation of federal regulations, laws, and court decisions. While we cannot advocate operating outside the law to solve problems, we also sympathize with Mr. Bundy's dilemma. With good faith negotiations from both sides, we believe a result can be achieved which recognizes the balance that must be struck between private property rights and resource sustainability.
Nevada Squatter Cliven Bundy Says His Battle for Freedom May Escalate into the Next Ruby Ridge | All Things Crime Blog
I guess he didn't want to pay his CA dues either,
Range war controversy | WLJ Online
Well the Bundy's can sing "I fought the law, and the law won" all the way to the poor house.Quote:
Bundy is not a member of the NCA, which has more than 560 dues-paying members in Nevada. Torrell said the dispute has been triggered by the Endangered Species Act and listing a desert tortoise as endangered. “Public lands grazing always has been contentious and always will be, but you can't change laws by breaking laws.”
The NCA statement stressed the association “supports effective range management through collaboration with resource management agencies and interested parties to achieve rangeland management goals for economically viable ranch operations and the conservation of wildlife species.”
The NCA noted that a federal judge reviewed the Bundy case and authorized the U.S. government to impound Bundy's cattle, enjoining them from trespassing on federal land.
Wait until Obamas goon squad comes after you and yours Tal... its just a matter of time... they won't be happy until Stalin looks like a better alternative. Putin already looks good compared to Obama.
Stop scaring yourself and enjoy the ride. I survived Reagan, Nixon, and two Bush's. You can make it through Obama. Putin will give you asylum if you ask him. You and Snowden can trade secrets.
Ironically ,the desert tortoise thrive where cattle graze. Them cow pies are a delicacy .
RANGE magazine
yeh but they don't do so well with solar farms
correct ,tortoise and birds get fried near solar farms ;and birds die by the thousands near windmill farms.
This was never about desert tortoise. The government just culled thousands of them ... a strange way to treat an endangered species.
well I seem to remember they culled another endangered species in roughly the same region
This little interview seems appropriate:
Judge Napolitano Explains How the Government Snatched 'Defeat Out of the Jaws of Victory' on Nevada Rancher Case | TheBlaze.com
Quote:
“The problem here is that the federal government — as is typical when it wins its case — has overplayed its hand and has completely turned the dynamics in which it won, into a case in which it's probably going to lose, because of the manner in which it's enforcing its victory,”
you are saying brute force doesn't work
It worked quite well at Mt. Carmel 21 years ago yesterday. I'm saying the SHOW of force doesn't work unless you're willing to pull the trigger and massacre your own citizens.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Are you going to make us look that up to get your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by Catsmine
NoQuote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
The Waco Massacre
It would seem the publicity about Mr. Bundy is generating some coverage of other aspects of this controversy. This is getting better.
Western States Gather: 'The Urgency is Now' to Take Control of Federal Land
Article One, Section 8, Clause 17,provides for the creation of Washington, D.C. as the seat of the federal government and allows the federal government to purchase lands in a state with "the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings.”
It is of questionable constitutionality that the Federal Government retained so much of the Western States lands after the States were admitted into the union.
But from here, will simple condemnation of the property by the state governments be enough?
That article syas they can't make sense of it, so how can we?
[COLOR=#333333]Well Clive is extending his 15 minutes, and more are running from him.
[/COLOR]http://www.examiner.com/article/cliven-bundy-exposed-embarrassed-republicans-running-away
How a patriot can be against the government is beyond me but the founders had their own methods to handle law breakers, and din't wait 20 years either,
Whiskey Rebellion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Daily Kos :: Chickensh*t TeaParty Militia in Nevada Wanted To Use Woman as Human Shields for Cliven BundyQuote:
Throughout counties in Western Pennsylvania, protesters used violence and intimidation to prevent federal officials from collecting the tax. Resistance came to a climax in July 1794, when a U.S. marshal arrived in western Pennsylvania to serve writs to distillers who had not paid the excise. The alarm was raised, and more than 500 armed men attacked the fortified home of tax inspector General John Neville. Washington responded by sending peace commissioners to western Pennsylvania to negotiate with the rebels, while at the same time calling on governors to send a militia force to enforce the tax. With 13,000 militia provided by the governors of Virginia, Maryland, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania,Washington rode at the head of an army to suppress the insurgency. The rebels all went home before the arrival of the army, and there was no confrontation.
Any more questions?
the very notion of patriotism in your nation is to be opposed to government, the very notion of your second amendment rights as they are applied today is to be opposed to government, your republican representatives would consider themselves patriots as they oppose the elected government of the day. I don't know where you get these ideas but put them backQuote:
How a patriot can be against the government is beyond me but the founders had their own methods to handle law breakers, and din't wait 20 years either,
Whiskey Rebellion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Daily Kos :: Chickensh*t TeaParty Militia in Nevada Wanted To Use Woman as Human Shields for Cliven Bundy
Any more questions?
I think you have the wrong idea here. The notion of patriotism is about beleiving in this country and the beleifs of the founders. If the government gets too far out of hand then the people have the right to stand against it. It is not an antigovernment thing it is more of a safety mechanism incase this government spins out of control.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
The second amendment is the most important amendment as it is the only one that protects all others. Without it then there is no last resort for the people.
Interesting news out today. The "RACIST!!!" meme doesn't seem to be working
CNN Goes Bundy-Trolling on Racial Issues & Gets Retort from Black Bodyguard They Don't Expect
patiotism means defending your country against invaders, standing up for your country, it doesn't mean opposing an elected government. This is why I say that the ideas are all skewed, words no longer mean what they once did, now patriot means rebel
Not here.. you forget... We told the King of England to get stuffed... he was once the government, in fact we fought a war to prove how serious we were about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
The government is there to serve us... we are not there to serve the government.
I forget nothing, rebellion is rebellion, you were successful after years of conflict and the good luck of remoteness and the fact that your king had many enemies who exploited the situation. By this I am not saying that the Georgian regime didn't handle the situation poorly or with arrogance, but the situation of my nation demonstrates that rebellion is not necessary to achieve the objective of independence
I take it you refer to your country, that used remoteness and the good luck that your king was too busy with WWI to bother with you to achieve independence.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Cats where did that load of bullshlt come from? My country achieved independence in 1901 when it became the Commonwealth of Australia. It did not fight a war to achieve independence. We fought in WWI and lost many thousands, a generation even, but even then we were a force to be reckoned with, long before your country got off its backside and helped out. Our remoteness did one thing for us, it gave us the will to achieve without relying on those who are fairweather friendsQuote:
Originally Posted by Catsmine
That's a convoluted load of nonsense. Patriotism is devotion to your country, not your elected government. When your elected government oppresses its people they should be opposed. Patriotism means protecting your country from enemies, foreign or domestic.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
We have the means to change our governments every two years through the ballots not with guns. Its OUR government, and OUR country. We can argue some may not like it, but when you take up arms against the government its fellow citizens you are looking to shoot, not some invading foreign army. To take up arms against a duly elected government for a fellow that has been basically a squatter, and lost his 20 year old case in court twice is ridicules.
All his fellow ranchers pay their fees and follow the law, he did NOT, and lost in court. He may not recognize the government as legit, MANY do not, but they are bound by the same rule of law we all are. To defend a guy who works outside the law and breaks it, gun or not, beliefs or not is just wrong. He chose to disregard the rules and tries to take the law into his own hands to avoid the consequences of his actions so he is no patriot, or hero. Just another law breaker.
He will be dealt with, peacefully, in time. And so will the vigilante law.
I agree with you Tal supporting Bundy is not patriotism these are the same sort of arguments that started your civil war predicated on the notion that the government doesn't have the right to enforce the law. it is the states rights argument all over again, law at the point of a gun
Meanwhile, while waiting for the election you're cool with rights being eroded and government oppression. Funny, but that's not how you lefties reacted to the Bush years. Sorry my friend, we're not going to bend over and take it in the arse either.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Do you need your guns to get to the next election? Of course not. That has nothing to do with the Bundy case either.
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