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That didn't speak to the question. Which part of Obama's speech did not point to government?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
I find it quite telling actually that the people who keep arguing for government intervention, Obamacare, expanding the welfare net, etc. are coming to his defense to deny he's preaching the very thing they love him for. Everything Obama does is to rationalize and enact government solutions. Again, which part of his speech did not point to government as our cosponsor?
Spamming the board... nice.
I have more if that's what we're doing here now.
Who here has actively asked for government intervention and who here has mentioned that they love Obama for government intervention?Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
So no one exists outside of AMHD? Wow, you live in a small world.
P.S. you are the only one actively spamming the thread.
Hello again,
I don't have a cartoon. Just a statement from Thomas Paine.. You know, one of the founders.. What do YOU think he means?
ExconQuote:
Personal property is the effect of society; and it is as impossible for an individual to acquire personal property without the aid of society, as it is for him to make land originally.
Separate an individual from society, and give him an island or a continent to possess, and he cannot acquire personal property. He cannot be rich. So inseparably are the means connected with the end, in all cases, that where the former do not exist the latter cannot be obtained. All accumulation, therefore, of personal property, beyond what a man's own hands produce, is derived to him by living in society; and he owes on every principle of justice, of gratitude, and of civilization, a part of that accumulation back again to society whence the whole came."
-Agrarian Justice Part Three
It means he (ones self) is obligated to the many to participate in the process of the civilization that they live in. As in the statement united we stand divided we fall.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Being ex military surely you understand that by working as one you can get the project done but going off by yourself mainly gets you killed.
Actually Paine opposed the Constitution vehemently . Not sure what Paine meant by his comment ;but I understand completely what the President was gettting at... The state protects business interests so taxpayers have a partial claim on the wealth produced.
If you see my discussion about rent-seekers with Tut you see that some big businesses do not merely benefit from state intervention, but would sink without it. The corporations you and the President like to slam are very dependent on government ,and that dependence has only increased as government has grown. They are in fact state approved cartels .
When the President says "Somebody else made that happen," he means that big business could not have created the corporate state on their own. Liberal policies made it happen.
The President was speaking to the small business owner however ;and they just as soon government get out of the way.
Except when the government loans them money, or gives out grants that banks won't or don't. I mean every small business owner in the Romney ads has taken money from the government. Heck even that whack job Bachman is on the dole while she cries about it.Quote:
The President was speaking to the small business owner however ;and they just as soon government get out of the way.
Pass the peas, and leave enough for the next guy.Quote:
he owes on every principle of justice, of gratitude, and of civilization, a part of that accumulation back again to society whence the whole came."
Paine spent the 1790s in France and was a big fan of the French revolution (at least until he got on the wrong side of Robespierre).. His 'Rights of Man ' was written to defend the excesses of the revolution there. So his egalitarian leanings are on display in the quote. He was not a fan of Edmund Burke .
When Robespierre's faction took control ,Paine was arrested and came close to a date with the guillotine .
He returned to America as a man discreditted .He had burned too many bridges . When he died ,only a handful of people attended his funeral.
Ayn Rand 'Atlas Shrugged ' .Quote:
“He didn't invent iron ore and blast furnaces, did he?”
“Who?”
“Rearden. He didn't invent smelting and chemistry and air compression. He couldn't have invented his Metal but for thousands and thousands of other people. His Metal! Why does he think it's his? Why does he think it's his invention? Everybody uses the work of everybody else. Nobody ever invents anything.”
She said, puzzled, “But the iron ore and all those other things were there all the time. Why didn't anybody else make that Metal, but Mr. Rearden did?”
She predicted this conversation would take place back in 1957 .
yes, millions upon millions of fiction books have been written, eventually one may have text with relevance to a situation in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Hello again, NK:Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Careful, dude... You're talking about the right wing god creature, here.
excon
Kind of like the big bang theory, eventually all that nothingness will randomly turn into a sentient being.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Not quite . I agree with most of her philosophical views ;except perhaps her atheism.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Purely accidental was your point wasn't it? Which is more logical, from big bang to people or an intelligent author foreseeing the direction of things through her observations and life experience?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Whatever you want to believe and makes you happy, I'm OK with.
Hello again:
Hmmm... Ayn Rand is PRO choice... Whoda thunk that?Quote:
Observe that by ascribing rights to the unborn, i.e. the nonliving, the anti-abortionists obliterate the rights of the living. - Ayn Rand
Excon
In other words, you don't much care for it when someone makes your point look silly.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
If you did but you didn't. You did your usual bit of putting words in my mouth. It's tiresome.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Everything needs to have some weird religious undertones with you, it's creepy.
And I'm sure you think you're God's gift to AMHD. Oh look, an actual religious undertone as opposed to an imagined one.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Warming up to her are you ? I would think her Objectivism would be right up your alley.. If only you would dump your socialistic tendencies.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
And there you go again.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Sorry dude, but correcting you is tiresome. You mean there I go finally.
Hello tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I AM an objectivist.. I just approach it from the OPPOSITE side of the spectrum than YOU do. That's why you don't recognize me. Furthermore, I submit that you're no more an objectivist than I am... Oh, you TALK a good story about individual rights and smaller government, but when push comes to shove, you're OK with BIG government as long as it meets YOUR objectives... That's ANYTHING but Ayn Rand.
You believe that if it wasn't for those pesky anti Americans, and dope smokers, we COULD have an objectivist society.. And, just as soon as we wipe them out, we'll HAVE one, too.
I'm not so different... If it wasn't for those crony capitalists and moralizing religionists, we COULD have an objectivist society... As soon as we bring them in line, we'll HAVE one, too.
excon
Lol clearly you have not read a thing I've written about pot.Quote:
You believe that if it wasn't for those pesky anti Americans, and dope smokers, we COULD have an objectivist society.. And, just as soon as we wipe them out, we'll HAVE one, too.
I'm for a government no bigger or smaller than what was the intent written into the Constitution. The government has been granted the power to secure the nation . Anything short of that is anarchy and the government would cease to exist ,which would do us no good as a nation.Quote:
you're OK with BIG government as long as it meets YOUR objectives...
But you want Plutocrats and elites to make laws and policy to govern the money, and the masses, and that was the original intent too!
Tal ,prove where I've ever written such a thing .You guys are real good at putting words in my mouth.Quote:
But you want Plutocrats and elites to make laws and policy to govern the money, and the masses
Let me make it clear;the problem with America isn't the monopoly the governments has on force ,or elites running the show;it is the collectivist culture of the voters .
Nope, the problem with America is that the politicians vote for their donors not for the people that elected them. Your corporations have taken over your government.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
BS . I gave an example of the NRA on the other thred. There is nothing a special interest could do without the backing of the people. It is the people who have allowed this to become a Leviathan . It is the people who have allowed themselves to be bought with ever expanding entitlement .
Not at all. What corporate board needs to hear from the people before it "donates" millions to a candidate/senator/governor/congressman in return for a favorable vote?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
You have written many times about unfettering big business by relieving them of cumbersome regulations, without being specific, so while they buy influence of elected leaders, they also write their own rules that favors them with no or little enforcement or consequence. Except to the many who suffer the actions of the few. Legally the can extract all the resources, and control the circulation that the economy needs to grow and function.
I mean you oppose fixing bridges and job creators paying for it. But you would cut the safety net to give them even more loot. That sounds to me like supporting the plutocarts and elites to me.
Peeing on my head and calling it rain is not going to work here. I mean why else would you refer to rich guys as job creators and then say the president is not doing his job by creating jobs? Make the job creators do their job! Or at least strip them of the title and call 'em greedy b@stards like they are.
You want them to have even more and NOT have to do their job, like the elites and plutocrats know better than any one what's best for the country. You support the Ryan plan and Romney, a plutocrat and an elitest. Take from the poor and give to the rich.
Your words and actions make my assertions TRUE, and those ARE your ideas even if you deny the words.
What does that mean in relations to what I wrote??Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
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