Try and Fathom the hypocrisy of a Government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Edit.. posted this on the wrong question.. although it could apply
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Try and Fathom the hypocrisy of a Government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Edit.. posted this on the wrong question.. although it could apply
I know what you're referring to, I get out a lot. A signature does not prove citizenship, even Fins can sign their name.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Yes,but if they already have my signature in front of them (the way it's done in Illinois), that will prove I am that person--or they can have me sign right there in person.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
If you were honest,you would admit they wanted laws in place for THIS election because it serves a purpose, theirs, to throw up obstacles NOW. How do I know? Why else would they be in such a rush while they have power?
Even after a guy admitted that's was the purpose, a republican win, you still deny it.
So now you are down to every citizen proving they are a citizen because theoretically only citizens can vote. How did those dogs get on the electoral role or are they canine citizens?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
That they are there is evidence that voter fraud happens. We are supposed to believe that the ones that are caught are the only incidents when it happens. There are people who have demonstrated how easy it is to commit voter fraud . In one recent demonstration ,a man ,with very little effort ,was provided with the ballot for Eric Holder ;and could've cast a vote in his name.
The ultimate excuse, S*** happens, I don't think I'll take this any further
If that were the case,explain why the guy in the OP said what he said about this being a way for Romney to win the election?
I don't discount that angle of this discussion, nor do I ignore the implication that voter fraud is a democratic thing, or that its justified questioning the rights of millions.
Come on, if this is the best you can do, It could be done better.
I can sign my wife's and my daughter's name no problem. No one could sign yours?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
You say it's because Thelma is being disenfranchised by having to get a free ID while we say it's because Joseph Cheeseboro and Joseph Cheeseborough who both live in apt 711 at the 7-Eleven store on South Broad won't get to vote.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Free ID or fake voters? I don't think the choice is that difficult.
Hello again, wingers:
As honest brokers of the truth, the lefty's here admit there IS some voter fraud.. How much, we don't know... YOU don't know either.. You SPECULATE.
Should these laws be implemened, LOTS of otherwise eligible voters WILL be thrown off the rolls. When it was reported in PA that it would be up 750,000 people, you called it spin. But, you don't know. Certainly, when all the states are taken into account, we're talking about MILLIONS of voters...
So, what I want to ask you is this; do you even CONSIDER that voter suppression MIGHT be a factor behind the push for ID's?
excon
What MILLIONS? What body orifice are you pulling these numbers from??Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Personally, I don't care if one person is "disenfranchised" by having to lift a finger to finally get an ID, it's the right thing to do to maintain the integrity of our elections. Perhaps if you lefties would stop treating people as if they're too stupid and helpless to do anything we could get somewhere in this country.
What did I miss? When did its integrity become compromised?Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Nope.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Hello again, Steve:Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Dude! It's wingers like YOU who think poor people are stupid and helpless. See, smoothy's posts... Nope. These are POOR people. I know you don't understand this, but requiring them to jump through these hoops will have the effect of DISENFRANCHISING them. It's got NOTHING to do with intelligence or helplessness. It's got to do with MONEY.. Gas to town might cost two days meals...
You guys have NO clue what that's about... WORSE than that, you don't even PRETEND to understand about the poor. To YOU, these people are STUPID and HELPLESS... The TRUTH is out...
excon
And how will "these people" find out they need ID until they show up to vote and are turned away? (That's the hope, isn't it!) They can't afford computers or even a subscription to the newspaper or news magazines, probably don't spend hours watching TV (if they even have one), live in an insular community where day-to-day survival is the topic of conversation. Low IQ? no. Uninformed? Yes.
LOL!! What do you expect from the pee on my head and call it prosperity crowd? We see how supply with no demand works, so do they! Except they like it like that, we don't.
They know their guy will pee on their head, that's what they want, and they want us to like it too! The can't figure out why, and that's blowing their brains.
??Quote:
jump through these hoops
The only thing they don't do in PA is send a stretch limo to escort the people to pick up their ID . Geeze... I understand that the left doesn't think people should take any responsibility unto themselves (note the new welfare decree ) .But come on! Nothing disenfrancises anyone who is eligible to vote. All it means is taking the minimal effort necessary to do it .
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
??
The thing you righty's DON'T understand, is that minimal effort for YOU, is a major undertaking for the poor. Many don't have cars.. Many don't have drivers licenses.. Many live 100's of miles from where they have to report. Many don't have birth certificates, and don't have the money to get one.
I really don't know why these facts don't penetrate the right wing brain. The more you guys call them STUPID and UNABLE or UNWILLING to undertake a MINIMAL effort, the MORE you lose the debate...
excon
PS> The more I think about it, these facts DO penetrate the right wing brain.. You know that voter suppression IS the REASON you're doing it, but you'll go on spinning it to your grave...
Or stretching limited resources to new limits. You didn't care about people making choices between medication, and food so this is no different. But the point is moot, since placing obstacles to the exercise of the right to vote is an old story.Quote:
All it means is taking the minimal effort necessary to do it .
My objection is not the goal, but the process that's suspect of right wing games, and agendas. Wish people from the affected areas would tell us of their experience to meet the letter of the law so we can have real facts and not right wing self rigtheous BS!!
Maybe they are foregoing government assistance too ? How do they get that without proper ID ?
US Welfare System - Help for US CitizensQuote:
How to Apply for a Welfare ProgramTo apply for a welfare program one must contact the local Human Service Department located in the government pages of the phone book. It may be listed as Human Services, Family Services or Adult and Family Services. An appointment is made with a case worker. The case worker will give a list of required documents needed at the appointment. Common documents asked for are proof of income, ID, and utility bills or other proof of residency.
And if you think that is just a Federal Requirement... wrong again. Most State ;including bluest of blue California require valid id for government assistance .
How to Apply for CalFresh BenefitsQuote:
Documents to Bring to Interview
If you have a face-to-face interview, please bring verification with you of your income and expenses. If you cannot get all the information together by your interview date, still come for the interview because you will have additional time to provide this information. If you need assistance in obtaining this information, please discuss this with your CalFresh worker at the time of the interview. The following are examples of what to bring:
Proof of identity (driver's license, etc.), alien status.
Social Security Numbers for all household members.
If employed, proof of income (wage stubs, earning statements, etc.) for the past 30 days.
Bank statements for checking accounts, savings accounts, certificates of deposit, credit union accounts, retirement accounts, stocks, bonds, dividends, etc.
Proof of shelter costs (rent or mortgage payment, lot rent, household, real estate, taxes, utility bills – heat, electricity, water/sewage/garbage, telephone, etc.)
Yes EVEN IN ILLINOIS you need proper id for government assistance .
DHS: Apply For Cash, SNAP (Food Stamps) & Medical AssistanceQuote:
The application process begins the day your DHS office receives your signed application. You will be asked to come to the office for an interview or participate by phone if you are unable to come to the office.
You will be asked for various types of documents such as:
proof of your identity
Proof of your residence
Proof of Social Security numbers for all people on your application
Other types of documents depending on your circumstances.
The DHS caseworker will tell you what you need to bring.
So what are you saying now... that these poor people who don't have an ability to obtain a valid id for voting are also being denied government assistance ?
Wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Start from page 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
First of all I'm not Smoothy so don't profile me because of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Secondly, don't feed us that BS that I have "no clue." You think I live La Jolla? I showed you the pictures of my neighborhood, I've told you all for YEARS that I live among the minorities and you KNOW I regularly support children who have NOTHING. So if anyone can get all righteous about POOR people it's ME but that's not my style and I have far more respect for them than that.
So cut the crap already, if you want to play class warfare I'm game because with the poor is where I live. Where the heck are you Mr Businessman?
Hello again, Steve:Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Yeah, I've heard that before.. You forget. I'm Jewish. Everybody's best friend is a Jew. But somebody's lying, cause there ain't enough of us to go around.
Nonetheless, because you choose to LIVE among the poor does not mean you support programs that benefit the poor. I don't know why. They're your neighbors.
excon
Again, I'm calling you on your BS. You ain't got a leg to stand on with me in this no matter how many different ways you try to discredit me and spin your way out.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Do your neighbors all know they will have to show ID at the polling place? If some don't have the proper ID, are you going to help them get it?Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
I have two identifying quirks in my writing (that looks like the handwriting cards your teachers posted above the blackboard). Plus, should I worry that a Romney fan is going to commit voter fraud using my signature?Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
African American State Rep (Dem RI) Harold M. Metts wrote in his op-ed explaining why he sponsored the photo-id bill in RI :
Letter: Why is Voter Integrity Still Being Ignored in RI? - Woonsocket, RI PatchQuote:
For decades many of us have heard complaints about voter fraud. My State Representative, Anastasia Williams, and her daughter, whom I represent in the Senate, had their vote stolen one election. There have been numerous anecdotal complaints that have spanned the last two decades that have been ignored. My question is, why are some so willing to sacrifice the voter integrity of our system on the altar of fear, while only being concerned about what may potentially happen?
I cannot accept the logic of those who dismiss this by saying that “there have been no formal complaints filed.” The old system was not set up to readily weed out fraud; and it would be very hard to prove. Moreover, winners on election night would soon forget about any fraud, while the losers’ concerns would be dismissed as sour grapes. We know that many rapes and other crimes go unreported. Does this mean that unreported rapes did not occur? We cannot allow the integrity of our system to be violated.
So yes ,it is possible someone could fraudulently steal your vote. If a State Rep had it done to her ,if Eric Holder potentially had his vote stolen in this year's primary,then it is very possible that incidents of voter fraud are happening in higher numbers than the actually cases it is proven .
I already told you I have never, since 1978, been able to vote in my city/county without a DL or voter registration card. We're not the ones whining about having to prove you're eligible - we've been doing it all along.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
I have a feeling people will overcome the obstacles, and time limit issues, and vote for who they feel is the best candidate.
Strange that, people having an opinion of their own
Hello again, Steve:Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Talk about plaintiffs, you've got 60, we've got 1,000's...
Among them will be Wilola Shinholster Lee, a 60-year-old retiree who was born in Georgia and has been unable to replace her birth certificate, which was lost in a house fire. Officials in Georgia told her that they too had suffered a fire and no longer had a record of her birth.
“I came here when I was 5 with my grandmother, who worked as a domestic,” Ms. Lee said. “She's 98 and doesn't have a photo ID either. She's upset because she loves Obama.”
And, people like Viviette Applewhite, now 93, who four years ago was making her way through her local Acme supermarket when a thief sliced her purse from its straps. A former hotel housekeeper, Ms. Applewhite, who never had a driver's license, was suddenly without a Social Security card. Adopted and twice married, she had several name changes over the years, so obtaining new documents was complicated. As a result, with Pennsylvania now requiring a state-approved form of photo identification to vote, Ms. Applewhite, a supporter of President Obama, may be forced to sit out November's election for the first time in decades.
I think we'll fare better in the courts than we did in the right wing legislatures, don't you?
excon
I don't know how you got from my post on the contraceptive mandate to this but whatever. SCOTUS has already upheld photo ID voter laws 6-3.
I think we'll fare pretty well, Holder is just stirring up sh*t because that's what this administration does best.Quote:
It was the most important voting rights case since the Bush v. Gore dispute that sealed the 2000 election for George W. Bush. But the voter ID ruling lacked the conservative-liberal split that marked the 2000 case.
The law “is amply justified by the valid interest in protecting ‘the integrity and reliability of the electoral process,’” Justice John Paul Stevens said in an opinion that was joined by Chief Justice John Roberts and Anthony Kennedy.
If this is true then I say shame on the democrats for not helping these poor people. Im sure somewhere near them is a democrat headquarters. You would think in the interest of getting out the vote they would be more then happy to help. Is it just republicans that take action and the dems that just want to sit and b**ch about it?Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
That's not fair since all of a sudden these new laws were thrown up, and not for voter fraud, but as a plan to trim the voter turnout. A republican in Pennsylvania said so. If this had been about fairness, and integrity of the system, there would be aid from the state to facilitate every ones rights in a much more comprehensive way.
Be it as it is there are many organized democrats and republicans helping to get those without the proper paper work eligible to register. Kind of a shame the repubs methods though to deny eligible voters their rights to stop a few from fraud.
I mean is that the best you guys can do? But this isn't the first time repubs have taken a reasonable idea, and made it into an unreasonable one.
Yet another case for the courts to decide I guess.
I find this debate somewhat seriel, in a society where voting is optional and voter turnout can be low, to be debating whether a particular individual has been disenfranchised is as we say "pissing in the wind""
Hello again, clete:Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Maybe it was my Yankee accent. This isn't about a particular individual. This is about 100's of 1,000's of people.. The people I mentioned above are just EXAMPLES. You DO have that word over there, don't you?
excon
Examples, Ex, yes, I have seen you have some horror stories, voting dogs, corpses, etc, picked up by the media, and it seems to me your problem would be solved by the issuing of a national identity card to all citizens and using this to establish a right to vote at polling booths, etc. sometimes you just have to put aside those states rights to get things done particularly when it is a civil liberty issue as the right to vote is.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
You might wonder why I find this strange, but I come from a place where voting is compulsory and this isn't an imposition but a privilege and the responsibility for being on the electoral roll sits squarely on the individual. In other words if you put yourself on the roll you are going to vote, why else would you do it. Identification is on an honour system and it works well, very few hassles and very small % of voter fraud. It also takes us only hours to determine the result and this is without all the fancy hardware that seems to cause hassles.
He said no such thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
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