I suppose Bush is responsible to the earthquake in New Zealand too.

Obama almost 2 years into a presidency is not yet responsible for ANYTHING that has taken place under his watch... have any idea how much has happened the left who is still in love with the MEssiah won't report on because their handlers in the DNC won't allow them to?

Times running out... THe dems are going to lose their majorities, and unless he grew a pair and committs Seppuku sooner he will be gone in two years and will have saved Jimmy Carter from being the worst president in his lifetime. Assuming Carter makes it another 2 years.

No real American appologizes to everyone and bows to everyone like that idot has done.

Obama has done more damage to this country than Osama Bin Laden ever hoped to in his wildest dreams. He's a clueless buffoon that thinks he has divine powers when the idiot can't even balance his own checkbook.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smoothy

I suppose Bush is responsible to the earthquake in New Zealand too.

.

---

Now there is a thought, we have been looking for someone to blame

Quote:

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Now there is a thought, we have been looking for someone to blame

---

Shhhhhhhhhh... If Obama hears he will blame him for that too.:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by excon

That's because it ain't true. According to factcheck.org the bible burning occurred under the Bush Administration.

By your own standards, does this mean Bush isn't a real Christian

---

Factcheck.org has long strayed from fact checking. The bibles were burned in 2009, that would be when Obama was CIC. They were burned because it was the politically correct thing to do, out of this same fear of offending Muslims and after Al Jazeera try to inflame the situation.

Quote:

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"The decision was made that it was a 'force protection' measure to throw them away, because, if they did get out, it could be perceived by Afghans that the U.S. government or the U.S. military was trying to convert Muslims," Wright told CNN on Tuesday.

Troops at posts in war zones are required to burn their trash, Wright said.

The Bibles were written in the languages Pashto and Dari.

This decision came to light recently, after the Al Jazeera English network aired video of a group prayer service and chapel sermon that a reporter said suggested U.S. troops were being encouraged to spread Christianity.

The military denied that earlier this month, saying much in the video was taken out of context.

"This was irresponsible and dangerous journalism sensationalizing year-old footage of a religious service for U.S. soldiers on a U.S. base and inferring that troops are evangelizing to Afghans," Col. Gregory Julian said.

The military says a soldier at Bagram received the Bibles and didn't realize he wasn't allowed to hand them out. In the Al Jazeera video, which shows the Bibles at the prayer service, an unnamed soldier says members of his church raised money for them.

The chaplain later corrected the soldier and confiscated the Bibles, Wright said.

Military officers considered sending the Bibles back to the church, he said, but they worried the church would turn around and send them to another organization in Afghanistan -- giving the impression that they had been distributed by the U.S. government.

That could lead to violence against troops or U.S. civilians, Wright said.

---

Jones' problem was he didn't say he was just burning the trash.

Speechless, I have nothing but respect for you. Your postings are always logical and usually factual, unlike others who shall remain nameless. However, both CNN links posted on these last few pages back up the factchecks.org Excon posted.

From your link:
"May 20, 2009
Afghan workers enter a walkway on March 3, 2009, at Bagram Air Base, Afghanistan.Military personnel threw away, and ultimately burned, confiscated Bibles that were printed in the two most common Afghan languages amid concern they would be used to try to convert Afghans, a Defense Department spokesman said Tuesday.

The unsolicited Bibles sent by a church in the United States were confiscated about a year ago at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan because military rules forbid troops of any religion from proselytizing while deployed there, Lt. Col. Mark Wright said.

Such religious outreach can endanger American troops and civilians in the devoutly Muslim nation, Wright said."

If you check the other CNN link posted on the previous page, it states the same thing.

The army is efficient in burning it's trash. They did not leave those bibles lying around for one year in a locked storage shed. Should we be blaming Bush for this decision? I don't think so. This was a decision made by an officer of our military because it went against U.S. military rules. So, blaming Obama for this is simply ridiculous. We need to place blame squarely on the idiots who sent the bibles in the first place. They had no business interfering in matters of war.

BTW, on the whole, I believe Factcheck.org is a much more reliable source than the hate filled blogs from both sides that are usually linked on these threads.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Just_Another_Lemming

speechless, I have nothing but respect for you. Your postings are always logical and usually factual, unlike others who shall remain nameless. However, both CNN links posted on these last few pages back up the factchecks.org Excon posted.

From your link:
"May 20, 2009
Afghan workers enter a walkway on March 3, 2009, at Bagram Air Base, Afghanistan.Military personnel threw away, and ultimately burned, confiscated Bibles that were printed in the two most common Afghan languages amid concern they would be used to try to convert Afghans, a Defense Department spokesman said Tuesday.

The unsolicited Bibles sent by a church in the United States were confiscated about a year ago at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan because military rules forbid troops of any religion from proselytizing while deployed there, Lt. Col. Mark Wright said.

Such religious outreach can endanger American troops and civilians in the devoutly Muslim nation, Wright said."

If you check the other CNN link posted on the previous page, it states the same thing.

The army is efficient in burning it's trash. They did not leave those bibles lying around for one year in a locked storage shed. Should we be blaming Bush for this decision? I don't think so. This was a decision made by an officer of our military because it went against U.S. military rules. So, blaming Obama for this is simply ridiculous. We need to place blame squarely on the idiots who sent the bibles in the first place. They had no business interfering in matters of war.

BTW, on the whole, I believe Factcheck.org is a much more reliable source than the hate filled blogs from both sides that are usually linked on these threads.

---

After rereading, the CNN article isn't exactly clear. Either way, it was still done for the reasons mentioned. Why are we so fearful of offending Muslims but don't give a rat's a$$ about offending Christians?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

After rereading, the CNN article isn't exactly clear. Either way, it was still done for the reasons mentioned. Why are we so fearful of offending Muslims but don't give a rat's a$$ about offending Christians?

---

This is the CNN link from Smoothy's post: Military burns unsolicited Bibles sent to Afghanistan - CNN.com

"'The decision was made that it was a 'force protection' measure to throw them away, because, if they did get out, it could be perceived by Afghans that the U.S. government or the U.S. military was trying to convert Muslims," Wright told CNN on Tuesday.

Troops at posts in war zones are required to burn their trash, Wright said."

Yes, the CNN article isn't crystal clear but the U.S. Military has strict regulations when it comes to disposing of trash, especially when on foreign soil. It is done quickly. This was an officer's decision to destroy the bibles based upon regulations, not Bush's, nor Obama's.

I don't think the military decision to destroy the bibles was out of fear of offending Muslims. Wright was quoted in your link as stating: [I]"Such religious outreach can endanger American troops and civilians in the devoutly Muslim nation."[/I]

In my opinion, the military needs as much support as they can get from the citizens of Afghanistan in their search & destroy mission of Al-Qaeda & its Taliban supporters. It seems to me handing out Christian bibles to devout followers of the Koran would completely alienate the general population of that country.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Just_Another_Lemming

[I]It seems to me handing out Christian bibles to devout followers of the Koran would completely alienate the general population of that country.

---

I don't disagree with that and I don't know how that changes my point. Being a "force protection" measure means they fear it would offend Muslims and cause problems, no? Otherwise, what's the problem?

You can throw out the discussion of burned bibles altogether and my question still needs an answer.

Meanwhile, this if for ex:

Quote:

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Christian Worshippers Attacked in Indonesia

Indonesia's president ordered police to hunt down and arrest assailants who stabbed a Christian worshipper in the stomach and beat a minister in the head with a wooden plank as they headed to prayers.

Neither of the injuries appeared to be life-threatening.

No one claimed responsibility for Sunday's attacks. But suspicion immediately fell on Islamic hard-liners who have repeatedly warned members of the Batak Christian Protestant Church against worshipping on a field housing their now-shuttered church.

In recent months, they have thrown shoes and water bottles at the church members, interrupted sermons with chants of "Infidels!" and "Leave Now!" and dumped piles of feces on the land.

Local police Chief Imam Sugianto said Asia Sihombing, a worshipper, was on his way to the field when assailants jumped off a motorcycle and stabbed him in the stomach.

The Rev. Luspida Simanjuntak was smashed in the head as she tried to come to his aid.

"I was trying to help get him onto a motorcycle so we could get him to a hospital," she told reporters in the industrial city of Bekasi, 25 miles east of Jakarta.

She said the face of one of the assailants looked familiar.

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, who relies heavily on Islamic parties in parliament, has been widely criticized in the media for failing to crack down on hard-liners.

But he immediately called on authorities to investigate and to hold accountable those responsible.

"We know who's behind it," said Maj. Gen. Timur Pradopo, the police chief in Jakarta, without elaborating. "But I don't believe this is an inter-religious conflict."

Indonesia, a secular country of 237 million people, has more Muslims than any other in the world. Though it has a long history of religious tolerance, a small extremist fringe has become more vocal in recent years.

Leading the charge against the Batak Christians has been the Islamic Defenders Front, which is pushing for the implementation of Islamic-based laws in Bekasi and other parts of the nation.

They are known for smashing bars, attacking transvestites and going after those considered blasphemous with bamboo clubs and stones. Perpetrators are rarely punished or even questioned by police.

The front also pressured the local government early this year to shutter the Batak church.

The Batak worshippers have refused to back down. Every week, about 20 or so return to the field to pray, defying threats and indimidation.

---

Atheists are also attacked: Nigerian atheist attacked by a mob of Christians at a child witchcraft conference

Quote:

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NIGERIAN atheist, Leo Igwe – a regular contributor to the Freethinker – was attacked this week by a mob of Christians at a conference he staged to discuss Child Rights and Witchcraft.

According to this report, Igwe had his glasses smashed and his bag, phone and camera stolen by the mob, numbering between 150 and 200, who were alternately singing and aggressively disrupting the conference in Calabar. After an hour and a half, the police turned up and dispersed the mob. One person was arrested

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Atheists are also attacked: Nigerian atheist attacked by a mob of Christians at a child witchcraft conference

---

OK, so? Did I say they weren't or call them whiny? NO, that was for excon's remark.

As long as we agree that religious groups persecute other religious groups - it's not relegated to a unique belief.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

As long as we agree that religious groups persecute other religious groups - it's not relegated to a unique belief.

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I never said Muslims weren't persecuted, but it isn't relegated to religious groups doing the persecuting either. Or do you consider China and North Korea for instance, a "religious group?"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Being a "force protection" measure means they fear it would offend Muslims and cause problems, no? Otherwise, what's the problem?

You can throw out the discussion of burned bibles altogether and my question still needs an answer. Why are we so fearful of offending Muslims but don't give a rat's a$$ about offending Christians?

---

I combined the points you were looking to discuss into one post.

Since I don't know what is in the minds of others, I can only answer your question from my own perspective. I don't believe the military does not "give a rat's a$$ about offending Christians." I honestly believe that isn't a factor at play here. Of course, I agree they were looking to avoid insulting the Muslims but, we are in their country and I believe our armed forces are simply focusing on the strategy that is involved in a military prime objective. I also believe if they didn't follow the guidelines many, many more of our soldiers would have died. Just MHO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Just_Another_Lemming

I combined the points you were looking to discuss into one post.

Since I don't know what is in the minds of others, I can only answer your question from my own perspective. I don't believe the military does not "give a rat's a$$ about offending Christians." I honestly believe that isn't a factor at play here. Of course, I agree they were looking to avoid insulting the Muslims but, we are in their country and I believe our armed forces are simply focusing on the strategy that is involved in a military prime objective. I also believe if they didn't follow the guidelines many, many more of our soldiers would have died. Just MHO.

---

When I said leave out the bible burning that left out the military, my question was always for society as a whole. It's perfectly fine to offend Christians, but not Muslims. In fact, many in this country treat offending Christians as a sport while getting all sanctimonious over some perceived slight to Muslims. I don't get it, do you?

Ah yes, poor christian americans with 100% of their presidents being christian and anytime you are in court you've got a bible there to swear on. All those free bibles in hotel rooms don't hurt either. Yes they are such a maligned group. LOL!

So... its OK to offend Christians in America... but not Muslims?

So you are in effect saying Muslims are a protected class, while Christians are deserving of the same disdain reserved for Child molesters, and Bikers?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smoothy

So....its ok to offend Christians in America....but not Muslims?

---

So you are saying that white christians are the chosen race?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

When I said leave out the bible burning that left out the military, my question was always for society as a whole. It's perfectly fine to offend Christians, but not Muslims. In fact, many in this country treat offending Christians as a sport while getting all sanctimonious over some perceived slight to Muslims. I don't get it, do you?

---

Ahhhh! LOL. Sorry. I didn't realize you were talking generalities. I can't answer for "society as a whole." However, I don't agree that people in this country feel it is fine to offend Christians but not Muslims and that "many" "treat offending Christians as a sport....". I think only a handful of people actually do that and no, I don't get why they do it. Attention maybe? Unfortunately, they do appear to be the ones who get the press coverage. Frankly, I blame the media for inciting the masses on a daily basis.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

So you are saying that white christians are the chosen race?

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You said that... I never even implied it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smoothy

You said that....I never even implied it.

---

See? We can play your "implied/are you saying?" game all day!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Ah yes, poor christian americans with 100% of their presidents being christian and anytime you are in court you've got a bible there to swear on. All those free bibles in hotel rooms don't hurt either. Yes they are such a maligned group. LOL!

---

Case in point...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Case in point...

---

Explain, I'm interested.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Explain, I'm interested.

---

You don't see how mocking Christians is offensive? I can't help then.

You're offended at me showing how you are the majority by far in your country? My, how thin your skin is. Is there anything that does not offend you?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

See? We can play your "implied/are you saying?" game all day!

---

So you needed to pull that out of your Butt exactly WHY?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smoothy

So you pull that out of your Butt exactly WHY?

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You have an infatuation with things in butts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

You have an infatuation with things in butts.

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Hey, you caught me... I love women's butts, their shape, how they feel... I admit it. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smoothy

Hey, you caught me....I love womens butts, their shape, how they feel......I admit it. :D

---

Actually you always use the expression amongst the men on this board, usually about what goes in or out of their butts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

You're offended at me showing how you are the majority by far in your country? My, how thin your skin is. Is there anything that does not offend you?

---

Your tone was indeed mocking and that is to Christians as a whole, offensive. A major offense, no, just indicative of the mindset I was referring to. It doesn't bother me, I take you for what you're worth.

I accept your apology.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Actually you always use the expression amongst the men on this board, usually about what goes in or out of their butts.

---

Hey, I just tried to lighten the tone up here a bit... but since that didn't work.

Personally I couldn't care less about what goes in or out of other male members butts... as long as they do it in private meaning I'M nowhere around to see or smell it.

Well then please try to be less offensive. Some members here get offended easily.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Well then please try to be less offensive. Some members here get offended easily.

---

Yeah... Like me and most conservatives. That goes both ways remember.

And most less easily than me... I was almost a 9/11 victim... and if not for a sort of premonition ( at one point I had a feeling I really, REALLY had to get out of there even if it wasn't because I felt something bad would happen) I might have been. Because otherwise I WOULD have been there in the Pentagon in that outer ring segment WHEN the Plane hit it.

Now if we have any others here who actually were in the Towers or that part of the Pentagon when the planes hit... or were first responders, then you might have someone with MORE of a right to be touchier on the topic than I do.

I've said that before but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt you didn't see it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smoothy

Now if we have any others here who actually were in the Towers or that part of the Pentagon when the planes hit...or were first responders, then you might have someone with MORE of a right to be touchier on the topic than I do.

---

Hello again, smoothy:

You, are OUT of your tree, as usual. America was attacked. Not YOU. YOU, like ME weren't hurt. Therefore, YOU, like ME, DON'T have a right to be touchier about 9/11 than ANY other American does.

YOU ain't special. Get over yourself!

excon

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

You, are OUT of your tree, as usual. America was attacked. Not YOU. YOU, like ME weren't hurt. Therefore, YOU, like ME, DON'T have a right to be touchier about 9/11 than ANY other American does.

YOU ain't special. Get over yourself!

excon

---

Spoken like a true liberal that was on the other side of the country in bed when it happened. THat wasn't anywhere near any of the targets and was never in any danger, harping to those of us that were...

If North Korea ever drops something on the west coast... try and remember what you just said here.

So do you offer that same brilliant advice to rape victims, Victims of Child Molseters, victims or drunk drivers, victims of hit and run drivers, victims of gang violence or just plain victims of violent crime?. Get over yourself..


You need to talk to Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Barbra Boxer and Harry Reid... BEFORE they get voted out of office. Give them that tidbit of wisdom.



If you are ever the vicitm of violent crime but live... remember to keep it to yourself, because if I am still here, I will remember your words to me and everyone in Manhattan or the Pentragon on 9/11, to "get over it" and you will hear them again.

Smoothy, you are finally pissing me off enough to stop ignoring your inane and repetitive ramblings.

Remember your history? When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, the ENTIRE nation was polarized. No matter where they were living in the U.S. every man, able bodied or not, immediately went down to their local army, marine, or navy recruitment station to sign up for combat. They ALL were THAT PISSED OFF and took the bombing of Hawaii personally. My father was one of them. He was a boy from the midwest. At 17 he convinced his parents to allow him to join the marines. That anger over the invasion of our country NEVER left him. Later in life he owned and edited a travel magazine. As someone whose love of travel never dimmed while living, he never could bring himself to visit Japan.

By your own statements, you avoided the building on 9/11 due to some premonition. I don't talk about it much and I am not going to get into it here but I WAS in Manhattan when the towers were hit. I was not physically in the building(s) but close enough that it impacted me tremendously. Lives lost due to the event had further impact on me. That is ALL I am going to discuss about it on this board.

Suffice it to say, I DO NOT believe I am any more damaged or feel that I am entitled to any more outrage than any other U.S. citizen. Neither should you. The fact that you THINK you are entitled simply shows how emotionally disabled you were prior to the event. Take it from someone who was personally more effected than you were. YOU aren't special and are not suffering from PTDS. People's reactions on 9/11 were the same as WWII. How DARE you minimize any other citizen's feelings about this dark time in our history to support your off the wall thoughts and ideas. Rarely have you stated ANYTHING on these political threads that have any basis in reality and fact. You take what people say and completely twist their words to a point where what you are stating comes off as ludicrous ramblings to many of us here. Understand I am not excusing others here from doing the same thing. I pointedly ignore them when they do it too but yours, by far, is the worst of the lot. With this latest garbage, you have completely insuilted me. Not a good way to start my day. I am done with this thread.

Now that JAL has ripped Smoothy a new one, back to the OP. I didn't bring this up when I heard about it but now that we have a folk hero over the deal I thought you might find it interesting.

We have our own 'Terry Jones' in our fair city and he decided to pick up where Jones left off and demonstrate that "Islam is not a religion of peace" by burning a Koran in Jones' stead. But wouldn't you know it, along comes 23-year-old skateboarder Jacob Isom to the rescuse who snatches the Koran with these parting words, "Dude, you have no Quran."

Thumbs up, Jacob. LOL.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Just_Another_Lemming

Smoothy, you are finally pissing me off enough to stop ignoring your inane and repetitive ramblings.

Remember your history? When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, the ENTIRE nation was polarized. No matter where they were living in the U.S. every man, able bodied or not, immediately went down to their local army, marine, or navy recruitment station to sign up for combat. They ALL were THAT PISSED OFF and took the bombing of Hawaii personally. My father was one of them. He was a boy from the midwest. At 17 he convinced his parents to allow him to join the marines. That anger over the invasion of our country NEVER left him. Later in life he owned and edited a travel magazine. As someone whose love of travel never dimmed while living, he never could bring himself to visit Japan.

By your own statements, you avoided the building on 9/11 due to some premonition. I don't talk about it much and I am not going to get into it here but I WAS in Manhattan when the towers were hit. I was not physically in the building(s) but close enough that it impacted me tremendously. Lives lost due to the event had further impact on me. That is ALL I am going to discuss about it on this board.

Suffice it to say, I DO NOT believe I am any more damaged or feel that I am entitled to any more outrage than any other U.S. citizen. Neither should you. The fact that you THINK you are entitled simply shows how emotionally disabled you were prior to the event. Take it from someone who was personally more effected than you were. YOU aren't special and are not suffering from PTDS. People's reactions on 9/11 were the same as WWII. How DARE you minimize any other citizen's feelings about this dark time in our history to support your off the wall thoughts and ideas. Rarely have you stated ANYTHING on these political threads that have any basis in reality and fact. You take what people say and completely twist their words to a point where what you are stating comes off as ludicrous ramblings to many of us here. Understand I am not excusing others here from doing the same thing. I pointedly ignore them when they do it too but yours, by far, is the worst of the lot. With this latest garbage, you have completely insuilted me. Not a good way to start off my day. I am done with this thread.

---

Off your meds? I don't see any reality of facts coming from the left here... and even less reality of facts coming from the White House.

YOu just in fact proved you ARE JUST ANOTHER LEMMING of the Demopcrat party...

You believe anything they tell you to believe...

I suppose you think Dan Rather was right... and didn't fabricate the story.

I suppose you believe Obama really isn't responsible for anything he has done the 21 months he has been in office...


I suppose you believe that George Bush who has been in Crawford Texas is really still running the country.


You don't know what pissed off is after listen to the drivel and total bullsh** from the left.

Where in the Hell were YOU that morning... I sure as hell am willing to bet you werten't in Shanksville, PA, Were you in lower Manhattan, were you in or near the Pentagon...

If you weren't then shut the hell up because YOU don't have a damn clue.

Who in the hell appointed you the all knowing expert... don't tell me YOU know exactly what I went through because YOU didn't YOU watch it on TV... YOU didn't see it with your own eyes in person... YOU didn't have people you knew well killed.

Its just shows another lefty with a big mouth trying to jump on the bandwagon of something he doesn't have a clue about...


I suppose you know exactly what its like to have a loaded gun pointed at your temple through a car door because you watch TV... so you know what its like...


Yeah... keep deluding yourself... you are very good at that.

Nobody that wasn't there feels the same thing as someone who was...

Anyone that claims they do is a damn liar.

And that is NOT the same as what you did feel watching it on TV.

If you remember I saw it from BOTH aspects... I saw the Towers on TV... the Pentagon didn't happen until later, and THAT was not the same at all because I just left the Pentgon, in THAT area not that long before, THAT was a punch in the gut unlike the shock of watching the towers on TV. And I saw the Pentagon smoking before they even had a video feed for it... from the roof of my office


NOT the same... and people in those towers or near them DID feel that part more than I diid or YOU did... or ANYONE that saw it only on TV.

Likewise if YOU weren't at the pentagon or near it... you couldn't possibly feel it the same way as those who were.


If you weren't at either... then face reality... you didn't feel it the same way as those who were. Its impossible. And you having the balls to try and tell ME what I can and can't feel when YOU weren't there... THAT pisses me off, grow up already.

Ask any crime victim... but then... you really are closed minded and believe only what you want to believe.

Hello again, smoothy:

I got to hand it to you. You'd make an excellent Tea Party candidate for something... Politicians have a way of saying whatever they want to say, REGARDLESS of what's said to them. You are very good at doing that. It might get you elected, but it won't win any debates here.

excon

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

I gotta hand it to you. You'd make an excellent Tea Party candidate for something... Politicians have a way of saying whatever they want to say, REGARDLESS of what's said to them. You are very good at doing that. It might get you elected, but it won't win any debates here.

excon

---

At least I don't repeat the DNC talking points ad nauseum even when reality contradicts them.


I suppose you really believe Obama is the smartest person ever elected because the DNC told you so.

Has anyone of the left presented college transcripts to prove he is yet? Nope... and that's because it as big a lie as his life has been. But then, the left worships the man as the Messiah, and the messiah would never tell a lie or stretch the facts to suit his agenda now would he.


You however like the left... believe you win a debate by repeating talking points... while offereing NO proof backing them up... when cornered you start personal attacks and name calling...


Exactly where and under what rules could you ever consider the left as tio having won a debate, any debate?

Because you haven't, all you have done is proven the left can't be trusted or believed because they will rant, rave and attack anyone who does not swallow their parties cock and bull story just because their messiah hands it to them from the mountain on stone tablets.

You democrats are so damn full of yourselves you can't see what most of the country is thinking...

Wait until the election even when you lose seats... I suppose you will still think you are right and everyone else is wrong... fact is your mindset is in the minority... not the majority.

If YOU were right the Dems would GAIN seats, and not lose a single one.

We'll see soon. Of course... Like Al Gore you will cry election fraud when you lose.