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"What's the point of doing various low percentage what-if scenarios?"Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
You used those words to describe my "scenario" of parents who love and care for their children in the prior post. From these words it seems as if you believe that loving families that care for their kids are a "low-percentage what-if scenario".
So that's where you said it, whether you intended that meaning or not.
Elliot
Nice try to cover for your friend but he was trying to paint me as an unloving parent.Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
The scenario you were playing was the one where the child the parents out and seek counsel elsewhere i.e going to PP and getting bad advice. PP exist because something broke along the way and they are trying to help. It would seem to me that someone in this thread had a bad experience and wants to paint the entire organization as evil. Sorry, I'm not buying it, I haven't heard of the same issues.
P.S. please stop assigning meaning, you often get it wrong.
Margaret Sanger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Margaret Higgins Sanger (September 14, 1879 – September 6, 1966) was an American birth control activist, an advocate of negative eugenics, and the founder of the American Birth Control League (which eventually became Planned Parenthood
Negative eugenics is aimed at lowering fertility among the genetically disadvantaged. This includes abortions, sterilization, and other methods of family planning.[6]
NK, whoa... calm down. Re-read the posts. Elliot spoke of "cases where the teen THINKS their parents wouldn't understand, but are actually good parents who would help their chidren out one way or the other."Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Your next post said "What's the point of doing various low percentage what-if scenarios?" To which I responded in general concerning parents. The only thing directed at you personally was the cynicism I perceived in your post. From what little I know about you I have no reason to doubt how much you love your kids, and therefore would not attempt to paint you as an unloving parent... I'm not that kind of guy, NK.
If you would have said you were speaking of PP scenarios when the discussion was on parenting scenarios this confusion could have been avoided. And, I don't think Elliot was covering for me, I believe he saw what I saw.
Steve
So because an instrumental member of the organization was a loon who supported eugenics it means the whole organization (which started in 1916) is, by association, horrible? Not sure what point you're trying to make here.Quote:
Originally Posted by inthebox
No, it's not egregious or an assumption, bad parenting is what causes things like this to happen.
This is why parents should talk to their kids about the tough things, not just candycoat them and hope they go away. If they know how their parents will feel if somethng bad happens, because their parents said, hey we'll love you even if you do drugs or get pregnant or whatever, even tough you shouldn't do those things, then they were parenting well. Otherwise, it's failure on th part of the parents for nottalking to their kids about real issues.
Charlotte, I agree and disagree with you.
I think my parents were GREAT parents. They were always ALWAYS there when we needed them. They talked to us about big issues, and made us go to church every week. Family is BIG where I come from, and family always come first.
I got pregnant at 16, and gave birth at 17.
My sister got pregnant at 17, and gave birth at 18.
My brother has served time for selling and possession of marijuana and crack.
Yet--my parents made SURE they knew where we were, who we were with, met all our friends' parents, etc, etc, etc.
I got pregnant using THREE forms of birth control, the second time I had sex EVER. After dating my boyfriend for almost 3 years, exclusively. I wasn't STUPID.
Oh--and guess what? It was our FRIENDS that covered for us so we could have sex. In a car--when we were supposed to be out with them at Perkins.
So--don't tell me it's PARENTS that always fail.
I have issues with schools dispensing drugs without specific parental consent.
I do NOT, however, believe that contraception should not be available to teens. Frankly--if you take ALL medical decisions away from teenagers, you prevent the right of choice in the case of an unplanned pregnancy. NOBODY should be able to choose for another person what should happen in that case. Forcing someone to abort or give birth is a HORRIBLE idea. 16 is old enough for limited medical decisions to be made--ESPECIALLY decisions involving contraception.
I have to say, though--those of you who preach absolute abstinence can not POSSIBLY have teenagers. My parents preached it, the school preached it--EVERYONE preached it.
But--we'd been together a long time (even by most adult relationship standards, 3 years is a long time), we were in love, and we were using birth control. Does that change the fact that I got pregnant when I didn't want to, and that if I didn't want to be a parent, I shouldn't have been having sex? Not at all.
But face reality, folks. Unless you hide your kids away from all media, keep them in a closed society, and allow them to go NOWHERE but the bathroom without a trusted adult family member---Your teen is very likely going to have sex. Don't you want them to be informed about it, to KNOW how to prevent pregnancy and disease when and if they make that step?
I posted my ideas on how to do this earlier. I think everyone thought I was joking--I wasn't.
You want to stop underage sex? Then make it impossible for any teen to raise their kids without parental help or marriage. Make it harder to be a single parent. Take away welfare. Make it so that you either get married, abort, or choose adoption--none of this single parent, I didn't really love him crap. Make getting a divorce "because I'm not happy anymore" harder to do. Make there be very real consequences to having sex. Faced with watching your kid starve because you're going to school and working at McDonald's--guess what? All those "poor, desparate infertile couples" would have an ABUNDANCE of babies to choose from.
It's not the kids, it's not the parents--it's the fact that society forces no social or financial consequences on anyone that DOES get pregnant out of wedlock.
It's true that sometimes it happens that good parents have children who make an oops, but for the most part, it's poor children whose parents have failed.
I'm not saying that's the case 100% of the tim, but nowadays, it's usually parent failure that results in these problems because they don't talk to their kids and they fail to paren in general.
Either way, condoms=yes, BC, go to a free clinic at 16 (at least in my state) and get it without parental consent anyway, but maybe not at school.
From the first sentence, are you implying that unwanted pregnancies never happen to "good parents" or do you wait to judge parents until after their kid[s] are past their teenage years?Quote:
Originally Posted by charlotte234s
Quote:
Originally Posted by jillianleab
My post was in response to the why PP exists.
From
Facts on Induced Abortion in the United States
Black women are almost four times as likely as white women to have an abortion, and Hispanic women are 2.5 times as likely.[7]
The abortion rate among women living below the federal poverty level ($9,570 for a single woman with no children) is more than four times that of women above 300% of the poverty level (44 vs. 10 abortions per 1,000 women).[11]*
- So poor and or minority women have the highest rates or likelihoods of getting an abortion; whether intentional or not, this is consistent with Sanger's negative eugenics.
Eight percent of women having abortions have never used a method of birth control; nonuse is greatest among those who are young, poor, black, Hispanic or less educated.[15]
- so 92 % are not using induced abortion as their first means of birth control
Fifty-four percent of women having abortions used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant. Among those women, 76% of pill users and 49% of condom users reported using their method inconsistently, while 13% of pill users and 14% of condom users reported correct use.[13]
- so even used correctly pill / condom use has a 13-14 % failure rate.
Charlotte, I think everyone agrees parents "should talk to their kids about the tough things" but you are still assuming that "bad parenting" is the only reason a kid "needs" to get "help" elsewhere and that's insane. You're assuming that the children of all "good" parents will go to their parents with any problem or when they make a mistake and that just ain't the real world. You've taken other influences out of the mix like friends, the entertainment industry, books, magazines, teachers, PP and even other family members. You - and parents - have no idea how they're being influenced at school, friend's houses and other places away from home, or how they act away from home. They may a completely different person away from home, and I know for a fact that children from the best homes stray in spite of every effort by the parent.Quote:
Originally Posted by charlotte234s
When a kid knows he/she can go to PP, or now possibly even the school clinic when they want condoms, BC, treatment for an STD, etc. without their parent's knowledge it only reinforces the idea that they're bulletproof and encourages the behavior.
That attitude is a huge part of the problem because it minimizes or removes accountability and consequences for the child. That's PP's attitude, kids should explore their sexuality, there should be no stigma in having sex, and we're going to make available whatever you need to do so and if there's a problem we're here to help with that, too - and your parents don't even need to know. That has to change.
Speechless, I do agree with you (bet you didn't expect to hear that), not all kids with good parents go to their parents when something bad happens. The problem that I have is that if we take away pp etc. that we are condeming allot of these kids with unwanted pregnancies, std's etc. because they would have nowhere else to go. I wish that these things didn't exist, but there is a need for them, like it or not. The best you can do is raise your children with open communication and love, hope that they value your opinion more than they value their friends and hope that they know that they can come to you with any problem. Even then, they might feel disinclined to come to you when the fit hits the shan. Wouldn't you rather that your kids have somewhere they can go, someone they can talk to if they don't feel that they can come to you? Once again, I hope I'm making sense and haven't taken anything you've stated out of context. I'm just a mom who cares very deeply for her kids and has seen too much Teenage pregnancy and the mostly unfavorable outcome to wear rose colored glasses when it comes to these issues.
Altenweg, I'm not that easily surprised. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
And I agree there are bad parents out there and someone has to step in and fill the void, I'd just rather it be the 'etc.' than PP. In my humble opinion (if I haven't made that clear enough already) the agenda they've pushed over the years exacerbates the problem, it doesn't solve the problem.Quote:
not all kids with good parents go to their parents when something bad happens. The problem that I have is that if we take away pp etc. that we are condeming allot of these kids with unwanted pregnancies, std's etc. because they would have nowhere else to go. I wish that these things didn't exist, but there is a need for them, like it or not.
They believe EVERY person in the world has the right to "manage his or her fertility" as they put it, regardless of age. I'm sorry, but 13 year old girls do not have the right to manage their fertility themselves, or at least they shouldn't.
They believe we are sexual beings "from birth to death" and pledge to offer teens "the opportunities to explore and establish beliefs and attitudes" about sex. I'm sorry, but it's the parents place to offer "opportunities to explore and establish beliefs and attitudes" about everything. PP's whole world revolves around sex and we need to expose children to less sexuality instead of more if we ever hope to solve the problems of teen pregnancy and STD's.
I'm not advocating the current abstinence education, I haven't seen it for myself, but kids don't need PP's bias either. So where does that leave us? The answers aren't easy, but kids need more options than PP, and those that do need someone to step in should be required to demonstrate why their parents shouldn't be involved before any decisions are made. PP's attitude is yes, parents need to be involved in raising sexually responsible children - but - we know better than any stinkin' parents and we'll bypass them if we want to.
Exactly.Quote:
The best you can do is raise your children with open communication and love, hope that they value your opinion more than they value their friends and hope that they know that they can come to you with any problem. Even then, they might feel disinclined to come to you when the fit hits the shan.
You make perfect sense, I actually wish I could find the right words to express what I'm really getting at myself. Of course we all want our kids to have somewhere to go if they don't feel comfortable talking to us, I just believe with all my heart there has to be something better than what PP offers and I'm fed up with their meddling in the lives of others and fighting against parental rights.Quote:
Wouldn't you rather that your kids have somewhere they can go, someone they can talk to if they don't feel that they can come to you? Once again, I hope I'm making sense and haven't taken anything you've stated out of context. I'm just a mom who cares very deeply for her kids and has seen too much Teenage pregnancy and the mostly unfavorable outcome to wear rose colored glasses when it comes to these issues.
Wouldn't you rather that your kids have somewhere they can go, someone they can talk to if they don't feel that they can come to you?
I know I would...
And I'm not saying it's always bad parenting that causes these problems, I'm saying that probably 8/10 times, it is though.
Thanks for clearing that up. We could debate on if this was intended or not, but that's another thread! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by inthebox
I checked your link and saw it does say that, but I wonder where they get their information (sources are not linkable) since it's contrary to virtually everything else out there.Quote:
- so even used correctly pill / condom use has a 13-14 % failure rate.
Failure Rates of Contraceptives
It also sounds very similar to the incorrect information and terminology put out by the abstinence-only advocates...
http://oversight.house.gov/Documents...2153-50247.pdf
Maybe it has to do with people reporting they use those methods perfectly, when in fact they do not. Who knows?
Condoms when used perfectly have a 2-3% failure rate, not 13-14%
Jillean
I loooked at that sites "about" - did not seem biased. The article had endnotes - but not linkable.
Probably a reporting or questionnaire factor - I agree
Ahh, only if things were perfect. ;)
Actually... no.Quote:
Originally Posted by charlotte234s
I do not want my kids going to some stranger who has absolutely no idea about my family values, my relationship with my kids, and what decisions I would make for my kids to make these decisions for me. I do not want outsiders deciding what my kids can and can't do. I do not want moral and ethical decisions made by complete strangers who have no idea what my personal moral values are, and what values I wish to impart to my children.
I don't want someone to teach my kids that its okay to have sex before marriage as long as they use protection. And I for damn sure don't want someone saying that its okay to have an abortion if that protection fails.
These are MY perogatives as a parent. I do not want my kids to have "somewhere else to go" who will teach them values that are contrary to the ones that I wish to teach them. And I don't want them to be able to sneak around my back by going to PP or their school nurse.
Charlotte, you have said a number of times in this string that in the majority of cases, it is bad parenting that leads to teen pregnancy. I don't necessarily agree... but assuming that is true, why do you advocate for a better way for kids to sneak around behind their parents backs with the official okay of their schools? If you believe that a large part of the problem is that parents don't know what their kids are doing, why are you pushing for a program that will make it HARDER for parents to know what their kids are doing? Doesn't that seem backward to you?
Elliot
So Elliot, in that situation where the kids won't go to you, where do you advocate they go to?
To me. If they have to try to deal with the problem on their own for a while without success, they will HAVE to come to me eventually.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
In Alchoholics Anonymous, they call it hitting a bottom. When the problem becomes so overriding and so unmanageable that you have no choice but to seek help, you are ready to get help and start recovery. The alcoholic needs to feel the desperation of having no other choice but to seek help.
If my kids try to deal with such issues by themselves, but are unable to, and if the problem gets more unmanageable every day, they will eventually HAVE to come to the only people who can help them... their parents.
But if you give the kids a way out through school or PP, then they'll NEVER come to me. Why should they? The problem hasn't become unmanageable, and they don't feel the need to seek help.
So stop giving kids a way around their parents backs, and start making them feel the need to go to their parents with their sex-related problems. That's where these problems should be solved... not by school nurses and strangers from PP.
Elliot
The thing that worries me about this is the fact that teenagers don't always think things through in a logical fashion, there is another option to what you are suggesting, and that is suicide. Some kids would rather end their own lives than go to their parents with a problem, it happens everyday. Some of these kids really don't feel that they have any choice, they'd rather end their lives then risk the anger, disappointment etc. of their parents. You would obviously be there for your kids no matter what (for which you deserve a pat on the back) and I think that most of us would do the same, but are you sure that your kids know this, are you absolutely sure that if push came to shove they'd come to you? I'm just saying that things don't always go the way we think they will, you can have the best relationship with your kids, open communication and support and they can still make the wrong decisions. What if you take away every available option to them? They might just make the worst decision yet, to end their lives.Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
Altweg,
You raise an excellent point regarding teen suicide.
But will the chances of a parent figuring out that their kids suffer from depression increase or decrease if we allow kids to avoid communicating with their parents? Will it be better or worse if we make kids and parents communicate?
Allowing kids to avoid speaking with their parents about major problems doesn't solve the issue of teen suicide, it just postpones it until the next major problem comes up. But making sure that kids HAVE to go to their parents for help increases the chances that a parent will spot a problem and help their kid through that depression.
And by the way, I speak as a sufferer of clinical depression who is on medication and in therapy for such. I know that when I was able to AVOID dealing with my daily problems, the depression actually got worse because I felt that NOBODY could ever understand where I was coming from. But when I was forced to CONFRONT my daily problems and get help for solving them, I was making a connection with my fellow human beings, and suddenly I realized that they understood me and cared for me. (Granted, the Zoloft helped too, but that was only part of the solution.)
By making kids CONNECT with their parents, chances are that they will come to understand that their parents care for them, will help them, and understand what they are going through, thus limiting the impact of their depression. But by giving them the opportunity to AVOID connecting with their parents, what you are doing is reinforcing the (usually unreal) idea that their parents wouldn't understand, don't care, and wouldn't want to help them. That results in an increase in the impact of depression.
So while I agree that teen suicide and teen depression is something to consider in this discussion, I believe that getting kids to connect with theior parents only helps the situation, by increasing the chances that parents will spot a problem before it happens, and by making the kid realize that he is cared for and loved by his parents.
Does this make any sense to you? I realize that some of it comes off as pop-psychology or armchair psychology, but this really does come under the heading of "systems theory" in psychology. There's a lot of literature to back up the idea of creating the healthy support system to counter depressive feelings. And also in support of addiction recovery, trauma recovery, and other areas of psychology. And it worked/is working for me in my own case.
Elliot
Altenweg's question referred to the "what if they don't" scenario; then where does a child turn to? There is no 100% foolproof way to make sure that the kids will go to their parents for those that feel shamed by their situation. I feel that a third party outfit that can help the children is a good last resort. Beats losing your child forever.Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
Bingo, just the words I was looking for.Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
I have no problem with a third party solution but I think that party should be a mediator, make every effort first to reach a solution between parent and child. That may not be ideal but it beats the heck out of as Elliot so aptly put it, "giving kids a way around their parents backs." The group most mentioned, Planned Parenthood, makes it clear that when it comes right down to it they don't really care what the parents want. That's the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
And yet... what if their parents really ARE more concerned about "how things look" or what it means to THEM than the welfare of their child?
I have a friend whose mother literally beat her, in hopes of making her miscarry, when she went to her to tell her that she was pregnant. The reason she told her mom? Because she needed parental permission for an abortion (she was 15 at the time, and had been raped by a guy she had been dating). She didn't feel her mother would believe her about the rape (and she didn't) and felt that an abortion was better than bringing her child up in the household with her mother.
What of those parents would would force an abortion or an adoption because "I'm not old enough to be a grandparent!" or "What will the neighbors think about how I'm bringing you up!"
If you take away other options than parents, you are also taking away a teen's right to choose her own options for an unplanned pregnancy.
And regardless what you think--there are ALWAYS ways to coerce your child to do what you want--like not signing permission for an abortion, or kicking you out, pregnant and alone with no support if you want to parent, or refusing to help in any way unless you sign something while you are still pregnant stating that you will give the child up for adoption. It may not be legal--but what teenager is going to NOT believe what their parents say when they hold all of the legal power over them.
Again--schools should not be dispensing medication, but I can't say that teens shouldn't NOT have the option to protect themselves either.
That's your opinion of course, but it's not fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Planned Parenthood Connecticut, Birth Control, Reproductive health, Women's Rights
Planned Parenthood Southeastern Pennsylvania :: Educational ProgramsQuote:
COMMUNITY EDUCATION
PPC’s Education and Training Department staff are available to provide community education workshops to your parent or youth group. Our highly interactive, practical workshops are designed to maximize learning about sexuality and sexuality-related topics in a comfortable, positive environment. Our age-appropriate, medically accurate materials and resources reflect our cultural competence and commitment to meeting the needs of our audience. Workshops can range in time from an hour to multiple sessions to best meet your needs.
Planned Parenthood Comprehensive Sex Ed Bills -Quote:
Youth First is a comprehensive, multi-dimensional program designed in partnership with Philadelphia area middle and high schools to help young people make responsible decisions about their sexuality and health. Youth First consists of six specific components: long-term, comprehensive, age-specific, sexuality education; leadership development; social services/counseling; youth-friendly, accessible health services; professional development; and parental education and support.
Quote:
Involving Parents
For states facing opposition to comprehensive sex education, Planned Parenthood Federation of America has drafted the Parents Right to Know Act, state legislation asserting that parents have a right to be involved in their children's education and must be notified if their sexual health curriculum is lacking accurate information about preventing pregnancy and STIs.
Wow, we've gone full circle and still haven't managed to find a common ground on this issue. Let's face it, we could talk until we're blue in the face and never agree on every point. I understand and respect everyone's point of view, but I do think that some of you are wearing rose colored glasses with respect to teenagers. I had a good head on my shoulders as a teenager, I knew the difference between right and wrong and had a very close relationship with my parents. Although they didn't expect me to wait until I was married to have sex, they did hope that I'd wait until I was in a committed loving relationship with the man that I would eventually marry before I took that step, I respected their opinion and honestly had ever intention of going with their wishes. I didn't. I fell into Lust (for lack of a better word) with a boy that I barely knew and one night I decided to push everything my parents had told me aside and we had sex. He did use a condom and we were careful but I didn't love him and I did feel guilty about going against my parents wishes. We ended up having a sexual relationship for a few months and one time the condom broke and I ended up being two weeks late. I was in a panic and didn't feel that I could go to my loving parents with this problem. I called up the boy and we decided to go to a walk in clinic for a pregnancy test. Thankfully it turned out to be a false alarm, but had it not I would have been grateful for the services available to me. I don't believe that I would have had an abortion, that is not something I could ever choose, although I do believe in a woman's right to make that choice for herself. I know that my parents would have supported me, they would have stood behind me, even having known that I would have done anything possible for them not to find out. Yes, I would have had to tell them eventually, but I don't think that we should make it impossible for teens to find a way out by themselves. Yes, they are still kids in a lot of ways, no they are not always intelligent enough to make responsible decisions, but at least we should give them options if they have no where else to turn. If you take away PP etc then you will force all teens to go to there parents, not everyone is a good parent, not all parents will support their kids, your kids will be fine, what about the others?
Some parents will even kids the teens out of the house. :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
My point exactly, some kids really have nowhere to turn to.
Interesting requirement of the Involving Parents segment:Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
But would it require parental notification if their children were being indoctrinated otherwise? Anyway, I'll see your parental involvement clause and raise you a double standard:Quote:
The draft legislation sets up a process for parents to review curricula and would require that parents be notified if their children are receiving abstinence-only sex education.
Quote:
Rep. John Fritchey yesterday proposed a bill in Illinois that expands the definition of parental notification for teens seeking an abortion. The Adolescent Health Care Safety Act (HB 317) would allow teens seeking an abortion to consult with a trusted adult other than a parent. State Attorney General Lisa Madigan on Friday requested that the injunction on the Parental Notification of Abortion Act be lifted, allowing the 12-year-old law to be enforced.
“We are disappointed that Attorney General Madigan has gone before the Federal Court to lift the injunction on this extremely old law. It is harmful and dangerous to the teens in our communities. We strongly support Rep. Fritchey’s legislation to allow another trusted adult—a priest or member of the clergy or other adult family member—to be notified when a teen is dealing with a difficult decision regarding her pregnancy,” said Karla Peterson, president and CEO of Planned Parenthood of East Central Illinois.
Quote:
We're pleased that the Florida Supreme Court ruled five to one today that parental notification requirements abridge a minor's right to privacy, as explicitly protected by the Florida Constitution. Mandatory parental notification laws create the opposite of their proposed purpose by scaring young people away from seeking vital health care services. Erecting barriers to health care will increase the numbers of teen pregnancy and sexually transmitted infection and endanger the emotional and physical health of young women who seek abortion services.
Planned Parenthood encourages young women to involve their parents when making reproductive health decisions, but not every family is a model family. Teens most at risk for unintended pregnancy may be least able to turn to their parents.
Quote:
Planned Parenthood and Parental Notification
Of all the abortion-related policy issues facing decision-makers in this country today, parental consent or notification before a minor may obtain an abortion is one of the most difficult. Planned Parenthood wholeheartedly encourages parental involvement when a young woman is faced with an unplanned pregnancy. In fact, in our health centers, 73% of our clients who are teenage girls already involve a parent.
Unfortunately, some young women cannot involve their parents because they come from homes where physical violence and emotional abuse are prevalent or because their pregnancies are the result of incest. In other cases, young women may not realize how supportive their parents might be. In some circumstances, teens facing a crisis pregnancy feel compelled to travel to another state where there is a less stringent parental involvement law or no such law at all, to avoid involving their parents and maintain their privacy. In the direst circumstances, some pregnant young women who fear telling their parents may feel so desperate that they resort to illegal or self-induced abortions that may result in death.
Recognizing this, Colorado legislators incorporated into the law the right for a minor to apply for a judicial bypass of the parental notification. This judicial bypass process can be intimidating and, most importantly, time-consuming. Delays at this crucial time will heighten both physical and emotional health risks, as well as substantially increase the cost of an abortion.
We know that these hurdles can overwhelm teens. Some young women cannot maneuver the legal procedures required or cannot attend hearings scheduled during school hours. Others do not connect with the system because they fear that the proceedings are not confidential or that people at the courthouse will recognize them. Many may experience denial or panic. They cannot imagine revealing intimate details of their personal lives in court. These teens will become overwhelmed with navigating the system alone.
We will not stand by and watch this happen. We have created a free and private statewide response system to the legal needs of minors who seek the judicial bypass option...
Through our toll-free hotline (1.866.277.2771) Colorado minors can learn more about the parental notification law and receive attorney referrals for representation. By organizing a network of attorneys, health care providers and crisis intervention specialists, Planned Parenthood of the Rocky Mountains can stay on top of the real-life issues facing these minors as they access their constitutional right to choose.
Quote:
JDP is fighting on just one front of a growing state-by-state struggle against parental involvement legislation. Pro-choice advocates encourage healthy teen-parent communication. Such laws, they say, do not. They not only threaten the rights and safety of teen girls, but they also chip away at the reproductive freedom of all women. "Minors do have reproductive rights," says former JDP Executive Director Diana Philip, noting the supreme irony that minors can give birth without a parent's knowledge, but they can't get an abortion. "But they're an easy target. If you go after the population of people who don't have a vote and take away their rights first, it's easier to take away the rights of all. Roe v. Wade is deteriorating because of these measures."
Quote:
Because Planned Parenthood is so worried about the health and safety of pregnant teens, we have proposed HB 317, the Adolescent Health Care Safety Act to replace the old 1995 law. This new bill will expand the definition of adult family member (pdf) who can waive the 48 hour notification so that a young woman can turn to an aunt, uncle, or adult sibling in addition to her parents or grandparents. Clergy are also included to receive notification. In addition, if a teen can not talk to any eligible adult family member or clergy, she can talk to a licensed health or mental health professional who will ensure she receives complete options information. Once she has received the required counseling from one of these professional, the notification requirement can be waived.
Oh, and my favorite today, recruiting kids to promote their agenda...Quote:
While parental notification laws might seem reasonable (pdf) at first glance, they actually place the safety of vulnerable teens in jeopardy. If a teen feels unable to talk to her parents about sensitive issues like abortion, or is reluctant to disappoint her parents by telling them she is pregnant, or comes from an abusive home, parental notification laws may delay or prevent her from obtaining safe medical care. Still worse, they can drive a frightened teen to risk her life and her health by resorting to dangerous, medically unsound means of ending her pregnancy.
NK, PP always tries to insert the PC phrases in their articles like "Planned Parenthood encourages young women to involve their parents" - BUT...
It's the 'buts' that are worrisome. They are actively fighting against parental consent/notification laws. They are actively engaged in passing legislation to "expand the definition of adult family member" to just about anyone. They do furnish information on consent/notification laws followed by telling kids what states they can go to to avoid the law and get an abortion anyway. All the while inserting their patented scare phrases like "they can drive a frightened teen to risk her life and her health by resorting to dangerous, medically unsound means of ending her pregnancy" and the gratuitous "we care about teens health" line.
The facts show exactly what I said, PP doesn't care what parents want. Oh they give their ideal family situation, but they make darn sure everyone knows the child's "right to privacy," "reproductive rights" or whatever term they choose at the moment trumps parental involvement. So if a teen "feels" unable to talk to her parents or is "reluctant to disappoint her parents" they shouldn't have to talk to their parents. I'm sorry, a kid's "reluctance" or "feeling" unable to talk to their parents is no excuse to exclude the parents.
Out of curiosity, Speech--would PP informing you have made a difference in your daughter's health?
I had no problem with the pro-choice ideas they gave. Even teens have ideas on whether abortion should happen--or do you think that people turn 18 before they have any political ideas?
All of those things you posted seems extremely reasonable to me. Trying involve family in some way is GREAT--but there ARE young women out there for whom informing their family could have detrimental or fatal results. Period. For every worse-case scenario you could give me where a parent should have been involved from the start, I can give you one where the parent shouldn't EVER be informed.
What it comes down to is that there NEEDS to be someplace teens can go to get medical help when they can't go to their families, or FEEL like they can't. I respect that you don't care for Planned Parenthood and their "agenda"--but what would you put in its place?
Sorry mate, I would rather see my child see PP rather than a clergy member, we all know what problems the clergy caused with children (hint: they have ruined more young lives that PP ever will). Regardless of that talking to a trusted family member is preferable.
I see that this is a personal issue with you because of an event with your daughter and thus no argument is good enough. I respectfully unsubscribe from this thread.
Believe it or not I think we all agree there is the issue of "what about the others?" Of course they need options, I've never denied that - I just think there has to be a better option than PP. I've already shared my personal experience with why I feel that way, and the hell we went through thanks in part to them I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. Our lives were forever changed because our daughter made some poor choices, among them turning to PP instead of us, and besides the child she still mourns for their incompetent "health care" left her a physical disaster for what may be a needlessly short life. That's also what happens when a child takes the easy way out with strangers with an agenda rather than turn to the people that truly love them, because she "feels" she can't or is "reluctant" to talk to her parents.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
Contraception in schools? For who? The teachers? Yes, by all means. When a teacher has sex with a student, they should use contraception. By all means.
If you mean them informing me of their "care" of my daughter, heck yeah it would have made a difference. It's a lot better to treat HIV early before it turns to AIDS, your CD4 count gets down below 20, your kidneys fail and you acquire PCP and other opportunistic diseases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
I've never denied that. I just think there are far more good parents than bad parents and they will end up paying the price for this movement to bypass parental consent.Quote:
but there ARE young women out there for whom informing their family could have detrimental or fatal results. Period.
Good question, I don't know, but I would think everyone would be happy with a center without an agenda other than doing what's absolutely best for all, that makes every effort to include the parents in any decisions for minor children. Apparently that's not a crisis pregnancy center and it darn sure ain't PP.Quote:
What it comes down to is that there NEEDS to be someplace teens can go to get medical help when they can't go to their families, or FEEL like they can't. I respect that you don't care for Planned Parenthood and their "agenda"--but what would you put in its place?
Hey, if you look at my last response to you it's PP that wants to make clergy a substitute family member, not me. And I do think there is a middle ground, I haven't called for a crisis pregnancy center as the alternative but without fail every advocate on this subject has listed PP as the place to turn to. Offer me something else...Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
I am truly sorry that you and your daughter had to go through this. I think that I've mentioned before that I don't live in the US, I live in Canada. Things are very different here, and I speak from that experience. I will risk being politically incorrect and tell you that you are in my prayers. I now understand why you feel the way you do. You obviously feel very strongly about this, maybe the experiences you had is a hint that you were meant to make things change for the better. I don't know what that would entail, I wish I had the answers, I only have opinions based of the things I've gone through and the things I've seen other people go through. Judging by all the different opinions here, I would venture to say that we will never find a solution that will make everyone happy and safe. Best of luck to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
No need to feel bad for me but prayers are always welcome on this end. Besides, I think I've risked being a little politically incorrect here, lol :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
You hit the key for why I speak as I do, though, I feel if one person avoids the mess we've experienced all my ranting will have been worth it. But when it gets down to it I reluctantly agree that "we will never find a solution that will make everyone happy and safe."
Steve
I think school nurses should be able to sell preventatives to students because if one is already planning to have sex, then they should at least be able to prevent getting pregnant or impregnating a girl.
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