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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

First you say unborn babies are dust to you. Then, stricken I would think by your conscience (as well you should be), you try to put words in my mouth. Poor and obviously desperate strategy.

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You are a fundie Christian and a conservative Republican. Born babies are dust to you. You et al. have no interest in emotionally and even financially supporting them and their mothers/parents (especially if they are not white).

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You replied, "Of course I would!" Fine. Tell us which ones you would oppose. (Note to other readers. She will never, ever do that. Watch and see.)

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If you can be civil, I will answer this.

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You are a fundie Christian and a conservative Republican. Born babies are dust to you. You et al. have no interest in emotionally and even financially supporting them and their mothers/parents (especially if they are not white).

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A statement from an obviously prejudiced person whose conscience is convicting her for considering unborn children to be mere dirt, so you want to lash out and lie about someone else. I understand but do not approve.

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If you can be civil, I will answer this.

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Civil? You mean "civil" like the desperate, lying comment you made above? That kind of civil? You might want to listen to your own sermon first before preaching it to someone else.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Civil? You mean "civil" like the desperate, lying comment you made above? That kind of civil? You might want to listen to your own sermon first before preaching it to someone else.

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I simply took a page from your playbook, calling me all sorts of names and attributing incorrect attributes to me.

Lying is not a page from my playbook. Calling unborn children dirt is not a play from my playbook. Racial prejudice is not a page from my playbook. That all belongs to you as your post clearly showed.

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calling me all sorts of names and attributing incorrect attributes to me.

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Show me where I've done that. Truth is, you are angry because you answered a question (unborn children are dust) and now you're upset because you've been nailed because of it. You would be far better served to simply correct what you said. That will likely open up new cans of worms for you, but at least you wouldn't have that despicable comment on your conscience.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Lying is not a page from my playbook.

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I didn't say LYING. (There ya go again.) Read back.

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Calling unborn children dirt is not a play from my playbook.

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Nope, according to Republicans, they're dust AFTER they're born.

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Racial prejudice is not a page from my playbook.

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So you love all those refugees and immigrants coming into our country. Got it!

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you are angry

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I don't get angry, even at you. And my conscience is clear. Maybe I'll start a thread about the LGBTQ+ community I adore and the mini united nations who were the library patrons I enjoyed interacting with every day.

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Nope, according to Republicans, they're dust AFTER they're born.

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Just an angry, foolish comment for which you have no evidence at all. Again, you called unborn children dust, and now you're angry because you got caught in it, so you're lashing out at whoever is available. Why not just "woman up" and try to defend that comment instead of lying about other people and trying to put your words into their mouths? After all, you're the guilty party here.

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So you love all those refugees and immigrants coming into our country.

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Yes, I do.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Nope, according to Republicans, they're dust AFTER they're born.

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LOL - good one!

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Just an angry, foolish comment for which you have no evidence at all. Again, you called unborn children dust

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You initially called them that because I had correlated their lack of breath with Adam who had no breath until God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life.

You are lying again. I never called unborn children dust. Here it is from post 31. I had asked you, "You are really trying to make the argument that a fetus has no more life than dust? Really??" Incredibly, you responded, "Until they take a first breath, they may as well be dust."

Earlier, I had even posted, "He (Adam) had no more life than dust has. That is scarcely true of an unborn human being."

Own it. It's yours. And please stop lying. It's becoming a bad habit for you.

You've also never provided any quotes for this. "calling me all sorts of names and attributing incorrect attributes to me." Certainly seems to indicate that comment is...well, let's just say "untrue".

Is all this because you're a MAN...and I'm just...a...woman?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Incredibly, you responded, "Until they take a first breath, they may as well be dust."

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What's not true? You can't hold them, interact with them, feed them, diaper them, baptize them, look into their eyes. They're not even breathing.

How sad. A woman becomes pregnant. She treasures her unborn child. She treasures the ultrasounds. She feels the child kick. She feeds the child through her own blood. The baby is completely dependent upon his/her loving mother and comes to know her voice. But since the baby is still in the womb, to WG it is just dirt. After all, it can't be diapered or interacted with, and it doesn't breathe, so what good is it? Just let a doctor tear its arms, legs, and head off, and then be rid of the bothersome little pile of dust.

I really and genuinely feel very sorry for you. What a dark world you have chosen to live in, and how different it is from God's view. “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.” Or as it is said in Psalm 139:16, “Like an open book, you watched me grow from conception to birth; all the stages of my life were spread out before you, the days of my life all prepared before I’d even lived one day.”

No wonder you avoid answering questions.

A woman is raped and is made pregnant by stranger who disappears. Now tell that story.

Don't worry so much about me. I have regular conversations throughout the day and night with my Savior. And several times a week I get messages from Jeremy. I look forward to heaven.

Tell that story? She is carrying a brand new human being, not a pile of dust. He/she has a unique genetic code unlike any other person on the earth. That little baby is counting on his/her mother and is not responsible for what his father did to his mother. The internet is full of accounts written by people whose mother chose to give them life. I would encourage that mother to do the same. Only in your world is the completely innocent killed to cover up the sin of the completely guilty.

You really need to deal with your view of human beings in the womb. They are not dirt!! And your silly idea about breathing being necessary for the baby to be considered alive is just a joke. That has been explained to you repeatedly and, in your darkness, you choose to ignore it. Was Jesus just dust in Mary's womb???

No, you are living in darkness. Jesus did not lead you in the direction of regarding unborn children as dirt. Liberal orthodoxy taught you that.

Nope, you've never been pregnant, especially not after being raped.

You've never been pregnant after being raped either, so does that mean you don't get to have an opinion? That's not a good argument. I was never in a concentration camp, but I still think they were terrible places. I've never been pregnant, but I did learn how to read, comprehend, and think. There are many male OB-GYN doctors. They deliver babies by the thousands. They know more about pregnancy than both of us combined times ten, and yet you are advancing an idea that would put them all out of business. That makes no sense at all.

How do we compare to leftist socialist Europe ? Well it appears that abortion bans appears to be common there .

47 of the 50 nations limit abortions to the 1st 15 weeks or less
5 of those countries limit them to 14 weeks
27 limit to 12 weeks
8 of those countries only allow in that time frame for medical or socioeconomic reasons . And all 50 nations have some restrictions unlike states like California ,Massachusetts, Maryland, and New York. The 3 nations that allow a longer period are Iceland (22 weeks), Netherlands (24 weeks) ,and Sweden (18 weeks)

On-Point-63.pdf (pcdn.co)

Good info, Tom. I reposted that on FB.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

How do we compare to leftist socialist Europe ? Well it appears that abortion bans appears to be common there .

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Anti-abortion is a religious position originated by the Roman Catholic Church in the 19th century when they declared that human life begins at conception. Such a declaration was due to internal Church policy, and had nothing to do with the science of reproduction. If the fundies knew that the Whore of Babylon was responsible for their favorite political position, they'd freak out.

Before that, human life was considered to begin at "quickening", roughly at the end of the second trimester. That's about where Roe v. Wade had it.

The mass of cells at conception clearly is not human life. The baby at birth clearly is human life. Somewhere in between human life begins.

The religious position reversing Roe v. Wade by the US Supreme Court is a violation of the First Amendment. The preponderance of Catholic jurists on the Court is a strong indicator of the Court's reasoning.

I am not taking a religious opinion on this ;either what Catholics believer or that business of dust to dust .

Please show me in the Dobbs v Jackson case where any of the justices made a religious case for Roe's reversal. The majority opinion by Alito was predicated on the fact that Roe was wrongly decided against the concept of federalism and that the "right" to kill babies had been invented by the court in 1973 .