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I disagree. God teaches us Love. Love for our surroundings (don't dump trash on it), love for animals (don't torture and exploit them), and each other (treat others as you wish to be treated).
Keep the Gospel message (God loves us and sent His Son to die in our place) simple and straightforward. No gobbledy-gook.
1 John 2:15-17 Do not love this world nor the things it offers you, for when you love the world, you do not have the love of the Father in you. For the world offers only a craving for physical pleasure, a craving for everything we see, and pride in our achievements and possessions. These are not from the Father, but are from this world.
Okay then.Quote:
I disagree.
It appears as if you know only the teachings of love...that which is according to this World.Quote:
God teaches us Love.
gaffe - when a politician inadvertently tells the truth or says the quite parts out loud.
Then how did Eve become aware of the commandment which she most certainly knew? Sorry Walter, but to suggest that God had no authority in the Garden is just silly. He certainly had plenty of authority to cast Adam and Eve out of the Garden.Quote:
And the Lord God commanded the man? This is not relevant at the moment.
You have read the situation correctly. There are those on this site who accept the teachings of scripture which they find agreeable, but reject those teachings which make them uncomfortable.Quote:
It appears as if you know only the teachings of love...that which is according to this World.
There is no commandment in the Bible to love animals or to love our "surroundings". We take care of those things as a trust, but we are not to love them in the same way that we love people.Quote:
God teaches us Love. Love for our surroundings (don't dump trash on it), love for animals (don't torture and exploit them), and each other (treat others as you wish to be treated).
JL:
You're not getting it.
Nothing to do with "God's garden.
Adam could have slapped Eve upside the head, and prevented Eve from Conversing with the serpent.
Why didn't God stop Eve...? Why didn't God enter into a living being and communicate with Man...just as the Devil had done?
Why did God just sit idly by?
Our disagreement is with your idea that God had no authority in the Garden. It's just an incorrect idea that is contradicted on a number of occasions, the most important of which is the fact that God was issuing commandments in the Garden. God did communicate with man. That is plainly apparent. When Adam and Eve sinned, they were cast out of the Garden. Their lives were made more difficult. They suffered great loss, and all because of the authority which God exercised in the earth.
Now the issue of why God chose not to directly intervene in the temptation is a different question. You could ask the same question as to why God chose not to directly intervene when Cain killed Able, or when David had Uriah killed, or when Saul chose to be disobedient, and the list goes on and on. But it certainly does not indicate a lack of authority.
I would have to agree with WG's observation that God allows us to exercise free will. Now how that factors into the sovereignty of God is yet another very difficult question.
That is the Question.Quote:
Now the issue of why God chose not to directly intervene in the temptation is a different question.
Found it:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...BD4E&FORM=VIRE
Fair enough as long as we understand that "God had no authority" is not the answer. He exercised PLENTY of authority.
Now you might be saying that God had put man in charge of the Garden, and of the earth really, and expected man to conduct himself in a manner consistent with God's will, a sort of limited authority given to man. Perhaps that is what you are saying? But just understand that it was a LIMITED authority, and God came along afterward and exercised His unlimited authority.
My primary objection was your observation that God had no authority since God had no body. There is simply no support at all for that idea.
Wesley was referring to prayer in that famous quote. I love the teaching's of Wesley, but I do think he overstepped the truth some there.Quote:
John Wesley - "It seems that without God, man CANNOT, and without man, God WILL NOT"
This quote means there has to be a partnership between heaven and earth.
That is just wrong. Any even surface reading of the Bible shows where God interjects His will repeatedly with no involvement of man at all. Who gave God permission to select David as king, or to select Elisha as a prophet, or to send angels to announce the birth of Christ in Luke? For that matter, did Adam give God permission to kick Adam and Eve out of the Garden, of to curse the serpent, or to punish Eve with painful childbirth?Quote:
God would always need man’s permission before He can operate on earth.
Why bother giving Man Authority...Who Gave God Authority?
It is thought; In order for free will - God had to separate himself from his creation. Hence, the creation of Darkness/Sin.
What an Awesome GOD! Bringing light out of the Darkness...God added to himself.
Man is always given limited authority. It's the same authority you gave your children, but you certainly didn't need their permission to override that limited authority.
No one gave God authority anymore than some being created God. He is eternal and His authority is eternal.
"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
Some people might think that, but there is no evidence at all to support it and MUCH evidence in the Bible to contradict it. Just look, for instance, at the first three chapters of Genesis. Just look at the incarnation.Quote:
It is thought; In order for free will - God had to separate himself from his creation.
Exactly - Nothing in-between (Time) matters. God gives us "this day." We are in control of "this Day.Quote:
"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
We Own this day. We no longer own yesterday nor do we own tomorrow.
God gave all authority and dominion to Man...The Man Jesus...God in the Flesh.
And that is how God intervened. Otherwise, he might have simply talked through Clyde the Billy Goat, in the same manner as the devil did.
That was not the point of the text at all. The point is the eternal nature of God. It had nothing to do with us.
If you can find a passage in the Bible that teaches explicitly the idea that God needs our permission before He can act, or that we can "own" a day, then we can continue.
Honestly, you perplex me. You seem to be a Christian, and yet you seem to have no understanding of the need for doctrine to come from the Bible and be supported by the Bible. So you post video links (which didn't work) and opinions, but no scripture.
Did God not seek Abraham's approval before destroying Sodom?Quote:
God needs our permission before He can act
The point is really; God needs a body. God is not going to simply take over a Body without permission.
What about the Serpent (why did God curse the serpent)?
When God provided coverings for Adam and Eve...what about that very first sacrifice (shedding of blood)? Do you think the Creator simply grabbed an Animal and said "you'll do"?
Today is all, you bro. You have free will, do as you please. Give today to the Lord...all your yesterday's and tomorrow's belong to him...beginning and the End!
No, He didn't. He did not seek Abraham's approval at all. It is very clear from the text that God had shown up in order to judge the city of Sodom. He did seek Abraham's involvement, but He certainly did not need His permission in any way. It is very clear. "17 The Lord said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do, 18 seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him? 19 For I have chosen[f] him, that he may command his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing righteousness and justice, so that the Lord may bring to Abraham what he has promised him.” 20 Then the Lord said, “Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great and their sin is very grave, 21 I will go down to see whether they have done altogether[g] according to the outcry that has come to me. And if not, I will know.”Quote:
Did God not seek Abraham's approval before destroying Sodom?
So God was already "about to do" His will before He even spoke with Abraham.
Where does the Bible say that?Quote:
The point is really; God needs a body. God is not going to simply take over a Body without permission.
1. How does any of that support your idea that God "needs" a body? 2. Doesn't that dispute your idea that God had no authority on the earth?Quote:
What about the Serpent (why did God curse the serpent)?
When God provided coverings for Adam and Eve...what about that very first sacrifice (shedding of blood)? Do you think the Creator simply grabbed an Animal and said "you'll do"?
Hard to believe two adults can be debating the garden of Eden and God and Adam and Eve and serpents in the year 2022 when the story is so obviously an allegory and not to be read literally.
In any case, CHRISTIANITY or RELIGIOUS DISCUSSIONS would be a suitable place for your argument, not CURRENT EVENTS. I suggest somebody move it to one of those topics.
God had given Adam and Eve free will. If He stopped them from eating fruit from the forbidden tree, He would have taken away their free will and made them His puppets.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
I would not disagree with that, but it is still not what the text I quoted is referring to.Quote:
Today is all, you bro. You have free will, do as you please. Give today to the Lord...all your yesterday's and tomorrow's belong to him...beginning and the End!
See my response above. If God takes away our free will, we would be His puppets. That's what He DOESN'T want people to be!Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I get what you are saying, but the opposite side of the coin, the sovereignty of God, is also a very clear teaching of the Bible. I don't really know how to resolve the issue other than to say they are both true in a way we are not able to understand.Quote:
See my response above. If God took away their free will, they would have been his puppets. That what He DOESN'T want people to be!
Wifey and I, both having been vaxed and her having received the booster, both tested positive for Covid yesterday, so we are cooped up in the house until next Monday. Oh well.
Precisely, JL, especially your last six wordsQuote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
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