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Originally Posted by tomder55

I have watched Catholic services on television . They do not give to me the sense of fulfilment that being at the service ;receiving communion does .

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Here is your Pope - "Pope Francis succored Catholics around the world by shifting to an online Mass in response to the quarantine. His recent New York Times op-ed eloquently makes the point that the common good takes precedence over simplistic appeals to "personal freedom" in protests against justified public health measures."

Does your communion fulfill you so much that you will put your neighbor in danger?

The court proved the dangers of scientifically illiterate judges overturning government decisions that were based on scientific evidence.


"But JUSTICE GORSUCH does not even try to square his examples with the conditions medical experts tell us facilitate the spread of COVID-19: large groups of people gathering, speaking, and singing in close proximity indoors for extended periods of time ... Unlike religious services, which 'have every one of th(ose) risk factors,' ... bike repair shops and liquor stores generally do not feature customers gathering inside to sing and speak together for an hour or more at a time. ('Epidemiologists and physicians generally agree that religious services are among the riskiest activities').


Justices of this Court play a deadly game in second guessing the expert judgment of health officials about the environments in which a contagious virus, now infecting a million Americans each week, spreads most easily.

If the churches cared so much for their parishioners, they would remain closed.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

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Clete and others who would impose their values on Christians and Jews by saying where and how someone else can and should worship are being arrogant . Maybe for Clete the televangelist on Sunday morning satisfies his sense of religious worship . But for most people that attend services ;it is the parish ,the community ,the congregation that is as important to them as the service itself . .

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I don't seek to impose my values on anyone, but common sense should prevail. It is not necessary to attend every week to maintain fellowship. I have found that since CV19 struck services have changed and are diminished and the televangelist a stopgap that it has always been. My church has been able to comply with capacity limitations because common sense prevails

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It is not necessary to attend every week to maintain fellowship. I have found that since CV19 struck services have changed and are diminished and the televangelist a stopgap that it has always been. My church has been able to comply with capacity limitations because common sense prevails

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good for you . That is between you and God . I am arguing you can have religious services and common sense . It is the Guv's dictates that are unreasonable and unconstitutional

Athos don't even go to that pretender socialist . The schism is right around the corner . And yes Communion is a critical component of the Catholic faith . It is the basis of the new covenant .Jesus sacrifice repaired the rift between God and humans that Adam created ;born of sin from birth to death. Through Jesus sacrifice we are saved and forgiven . He died that we may may have eternal life (Romans 6:23)

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Athos don't even go to that pretender socialist . The schism is right around the corner . And yes Communion is a critical component of the Catholic faith . It is the basis of the new covenant .Jesus sacrifice repaired the rift between God and humans that Adam created ;born of sin from birth to death. Through Jesus sacrifice we are saved and forgiven . He died that we may may have eternal life (Romans 6:23)

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Bias has nothing to do with adjustments that are needed when sickness and death is trending upward and the options are few and distasteful.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Athos don't even go to that pretender socialist . The schism is right around the corner . And yes Communion is a critical component of the Catholic faith . It is the basis of the new covenant .Jesus sacrifice repaired the rift between God and humans that Adam created ;born of sin from birth to death. Through Jesus sacrifice we are saved and forgiven . He died that we may may have eternal life (Romans 6:23)

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it is not church attendance that secures salvation but confession of faith in Jesus, communion is something Jesus told us to do at every meal, not just in a church service. Jesus also told us to give proper reference to those who govern us, the separation of church and and state is a convenience, an artificial construct, not some sort of barrier and exists to ensure a state sanctioned religion cannot be imposed, it does not legislate against common sense

I for one don't put much faith in the options that il duce gives us . This is the guy who is responsible for thousands of deaths due to him dictates. The 4 states with the highest covid death rates per capita are right here in this region of the country . And all of them had a callous disregard for the lives lost due to their policies.
• U.S. COVID-19 death rate by state | Statista
Now il duce is self proclaiming the greqt job he did .
Gov. Cuomo’s New Book About Managing COVID-19 Hits Stores (ny1.com)

Where does he get off ? He knows he is wrong because it took no time at all from when he learned SCOTUS was coming down with the ruling that he tried to make it moot by reclassifying the area .

I applaud the Catholics in NYC for not putting up with his bull manure . While they shut down public schools for no real reason ;the Catholic schools remained open and it had NO impact on the infection rate.

The SCOTUS decision was clear ..... The decision said that said the restrictions single out houses of worship for especially harsh treatment. State action had limited attendance for religious worshippers while other businesses in state designated red zones could remain open without capacity limits.

So tell me why it wasn't bias on the state's part to have disparate treatment against religious institutions ?

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Athos don't even go to that pretender socialist.

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You mean your Pope? Wow! Funny you should use the word "socialist" since when you were asked to list the "socialistic" programs you oppose in the US, you could not name even a single one!

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The schism is right around the corner . And yes Communion is a critical component of the Catholic faith . It is the basis of the new covenant .Jesus sacrifice repaired the rift between God and humans that Adam created ;born of sin from birth to death. Through Jesus sacrifice we are saved and forgiven . He died that we may may have eternal life (Romans 6:23)

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Calm down, Tomder. The issue here is the Supreme Court, not your 15th century Council of Trent. Go to the Christianity page if you want to spout your Catholicism. Avoidance of the issue will get you nowhere. You must have gotten that tactic from Mad King Donald.

Clete it is not up to you to define Catholic faith . The Eucharist is consecrated by a priest during the ceremony . It is not the same as eating bread and drinking wine at dinner . In our view there is a transubstantiation that takes place when a priest consecrates the ceremony .

And this has nothing to do with state religion or the so called 'separation' of church and state . This is all contained in the free exercise clause .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Clete it is not up to you to define Catholic faith . The Eucharist is consecrated by a priest during the ceremony . It is not the same as eating bread and drinking wine at dinner . In our view there is a transubstantiation that takes place when a priest consecrates the ceremony .

And this has nothing to do with state religion or the so called 'separation' of church and state . This is all contained in the free exercise clause .

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I know what your view is Tom I was raised a catholic but I also read the scriptures for myself and have decided that I will not take a narrow view of what they say in this regard because I follow Jesus not the catholic church. My christianity can exist without benefit of clergy if it has to

Hey, you Catholics!!!

How come only Catholics are "lapsed"? I never hear of a lapsed Presbyterian, or a lapsed Jew, or a lapsed Methodist. Only Catholics get "lapsed"!

And while I'm at it, there's "devout Catholics". I never hear of devout Lutherans or devout Buddhists or devout devil-worshipers. Only Catholics get "devout".

Ok, back to SCOTUS.

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Originally Posted by Athos

Hey, you Catholics!!!

How come only Catholics are "lapsed"? I never hear of a lapsed Presbyterian, or a lapsed Jew, or a lapsed Methodist. Only Catholics get "lapsed"!

And while I'm at it, there's "devout Catholics". I never hear of devout Lutherans or devout Buddhists or devout devil-worshipers. Only Catholics get "devout".

Ok, back to SCOTUS.

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Obviously you have nothing better to do than rabble rouse

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Obviously you have nothing better to do than rabble rouse

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Obviously, you have no sense of humor.

No I have a good sense of humour, you didn't use the humour font

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Originally Posted by Athos

And while I'm at it, there's "devout Catholics". I never hear of devout Lutherans or devout Buddhists or devout devil-worshipers.

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Hey, there are lots of devout Lutherans!!! Lapsed ones are called "fallen-away" (among other things....)

freedom to exercise our beliefs is the issue . Clete says we do not need to congregate to express our faith . I say it up to us; not up to you or il duce to decide that for us .;especially when there is so obviously a double standard in favor of secular gathering .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

freedom to exercise our beliefs is the issue . Clete says we do not need to congregate to express our faith .

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I agree with 'Clete. Lutheran pastors in the US and Canada are using the magic that is the Internet to put together church-going events. YouTube, other videos, Zoom, and other visuals/audios and virtual gatherings have become good-enough media for worship services. Holy Communion can be a drive-thru or even a first-pick-up-the-consecrated-elements-at-the-church-office and then return home to participate in a Zoom communion service.

God blessed us with brains and creativity. Let's use them!

Church over the internet cannot possibly replace the interaction of brotherhood that should occur in church. It's like suggesting I can do my annual physical over the internet.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Church over the internet cannot possibly replace the interaction of brotherhood that should occur in church. It's like suggesting I can do my annual physical over the internet.

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But during this pandemic, it's better to be safe than sick or dead. And it won't be forever, just a temporary detour in our worship lives, featuring new, exciting challenges. Yes, medical and psychological/counseling services have also gone virtual.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Church over the internet cannot possibly replace the interaction of brotherhood that should occur in church. It's like suggesting I can do my annual physical over the internet.

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Church in the early centuries was in small intermate gatherings out of necessity what is wrong with returning to this tradition