Just a couple of questions: How is it that the SAME PEOPLE WHO ARE AGAINST CAPITAL PUNISHMENT ARE FOR ABORTION? Why is it that if someone murders a pregnant woman, that person is charged for TWO MURDERS AND NOT ONE? It seems that the government's dichotomy in this argument shows that and UNBORN CHILD IS A PERSON, OTHERWIDE THERE WOULD BE NO MURDER CHARGE.

I have never heard these questions addressed.

For one, it's not clear if the same people who support abortions ARE the same ones who are against capital punishment, nor vice versa. Now if you know something I don't then let me in on those facts. To me, you are talking very separate and different issues. I mean should I include in that a choice to terminate medical care with the choice of a hospital not to provide it to someone that cannot pay?

As such your question cannot be addressed until you are a lot more specific. We can agree the sky is blue, but disagree what shade that blue is can't we.

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but the law is very clear as to woman having that right, rather than guys like you believing she does NOT. You are a minority on this as a nationwide issue by the way.

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There is no law to that effect. It is a Supreme Court decision and not a law passed by the representatives of the people. As you could see from the previous posts, there is no Constitutional right to an abortion. The liberal justices on SCOTUS just basically made it up from nothing. No thinking person reading the 14th Amendment would come away believing it somehow guaranteed a doctor's right to kill an unborn child. Certainly the 14th Amendment was not passed with the idea in mind of allowing abortions.

As to Vac's comments, find a leading democrat who does not have the twin positions of opposing cap punishment and allowing abortion. I'd like to know who they are. Vac hit the nail on the head in that respect.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

there is no Constitutional right to an abortion.

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Who does the unborn baby (i.e., the fetus) belong to?

Let me jump in here and pose a question to JL.

You want the fetus to never be aborted, but, one day after that fetus becomes a live child, you believe that it spends eternity in hell being continously tortured if the child dies as an unbeliever.

Do I have that right?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

There is no law to that effect. It is a Supreme Court decision and not a law passed by the representatives of the people. As you could see from the previous posts, there is no Constitutional right to an abortion. The liberal justices on SCOTUS just basically made it up from nothing. No thinking person reading the 14th Amendment would come away believing it somehow guaranteed a doctor's right to kill an unborn child. Certainly the 14th Amendment was not passed with idea in mind of allowing abortions.

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Yes there is, as it says abortions in the first trimester are a part of a woman's privacy. Now you can blame it on liberal judges all you want, and I can fully understand your solution is conservative judges, but the LAW stands until that happens, if it happens, and just as conservatives won't stand idly by waiting, you can expect liberals won't either. I am aware that the 14th amendment was passed for the rights of FREED slaves, and became law after the Prez vetoed it and congress over rode it, and southern states were forced to ratify it as a condition of returning to the union, because despite losing the war, and freeing the slaves, restrictions were put on those former slaves (The Black Codes) that no white man had to endure.

It is what it is until it ain't I guess.

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As to Vac's comments, find a leading democrat who does not have the twin positions of opposing cap punishment and allowing abortion. I'd like to know who they are.

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That's a question you both must answer for yourselves and frankly you can vote for whoever you wish for whatever your reasons.

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You want the fetus to never be aborted, but, one day after that fetus becomes a live child, you believe that it spends eternity in hell being continously tortured if the child dies as an unbeliever.

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I've said exactly the opposite multiple times in the past, so your representation of my position is ridiculous. However, I've already told you that I won't discuss this topic further until you get the courage to take a position on the Matthew 25 passage. You've been dodging that for weeks. Your last comment was to proclaim that you were running your ideas by some scholar to see if he agreed with you or not. Why not just put on your big boy britches and say what you think?

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Who does the unborn baby (i.e., the fetus) belong to?

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His/her parents, in the sense that he/she is their child. Why do you ask?


Just for the point of education, here's a late first trimester fetus. If you are comfortable with killing that, then I don't know what to say to you. I'd paste it but I can't get copy/paste to work on this site for some reason.

https://img.webmd.com/dtmcms/live/we...-_12_Weeks.jpg

More on Roe v Wade

I'm not comfortable with 12 weeks, 6 weeks or even 4 weeks,

https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.wDuP1...pr=1.5&pid=3.1

So the 24 hour pill should be free and easy and a women should have the right doctors to consult, given all the social and economics involved in such a decision. The law says first trimester, and that's when most abortions occur, but humans better get it in their brains that any law is flawed because man cannot make a perfect law. JL, abstinence only works for a set of humans and many that are flawed will make mistakes even those that don't believe in it. Maybe you could be better served by applying abstinence laws to MEN as well as females. Or make doctor visits mandatory, take your pick.

If your not about shared responsibility then your credibility to an eons long practice (Breeding) falls on deaf ears. The good news is if that's the focus on giving your vote to someone then have at it.

PS.

I do not understand your inability to right click on an image and copy it, then paste it somewhere else. Is your computer up to date or are you too cheap to get a newer one, or too ashamed to ask your grandkids to enable that feature?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I've said exactly the opposite multiple times in the past, so your representation of my position is ridiculous.

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I don't think you've said "exactly the opposite multiple times in the past". In fact, I don't think you've ever said "exactly the opposite". If you have, please refresh our memories.

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However, I've already told you that I won't discuss this topic further until you get the courage to take a position on the Matthew 25 passage.

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Now, that IS something you've said. I'll try not to delay much longer.

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Why not just put on your big boy britches and say what you think?

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I'm always amused by how you criticize others for name-calling, and yet no one, and I mean NO ONE, does it as frequently as YOU!

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I'm not comfortable with 12 weeks, 6 weeks or even 4 weeks,

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Why aren't you comfortable with that?

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I do not understand your inability to right click on an image and copy it, then paste it somewhere else. Is your computer up to date or are you too cheap to get a newer one, or too ashamed to ask your grandkids to enable that feature?

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You thinking I am cheap is an example of prejudice. (joke)

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Now, that IS something you've said. I'll try not to delay much longer.

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Good grief. Good thing I didn't ask anything complicated.

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I'm always amused by how you criticize others for name-calling, and yet no one, and I mean NO ONE, does it as frequently as YOU!

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I did not engage in name calling, but it is time for you to gain some courage and say what you think. While you're at it, you can stop misrepresenting my views.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Why not just put on your big boy britches and say what you think?

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Why not just say, "Please say what you think"?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I've already told you that I won't discuss this topic further until you get the courage to take a position on the Matthew 25 passage.

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I have a position.

Nothing (mental illness, autism, undeveloped brain, etc.) can prevent God‘s bestowal of grace. The only thing preventing it is the person’s cognitive refusal to accept it.

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Why not just say, "Please say what you think"?

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That's a fair question. First of all, I said pretty much that weeks ago. Bear in mind that this is the same person who loves to try and call people out such as the ridiculous post he made above. If not for that, I never would have brought it up. Well, if you want call people out, then man up and say what you think.

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I have a position.

Nothing (mental illness, autism, undeveloped brain, etc.) can prevent God‘s bestowal of grace. The only thing preventing it is the person’s cognitive refusal to accept it.

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What scripture do you draw that from?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

What scripture do you draw that from?

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The Holy Scriptures I've been reading for 70+ years.

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The Holy Scriptures I've been reading for 70+ years.

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Any specifics? I'm particularly interested in the "cognitive refusal to accept" clause. John 3:16 would not seem to agree with that, but I'd like to know your view on it.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Any specifics? I'm particularly interested in the "cognitive refusal to accept" clause. John 3:16 would not seem to agree with that, but I'd like to know your view on it.

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I don't cherry-pick gotcha verses.

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I don't cherry-pick gotcha verses.

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Gotcha. But you didn't pick (cherry or otherwise) any verses of any kind.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Gotcha. But you didn't pick (cherry or otherwise) any verses of any kind.

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Nope. Read the entire Bible. Don't look for proof-passages.

Women shouldn't use Abortion as BIRTH CONTROL, I don't think.....and men should be ready to become FATHERS if they choose to have recreational sex....I have no tolerance for ANY MALE WHO HAS THE TEMERITY TO ASK A WOMAN TO HAVE AN ABORTION BECAUSE HE "JUST COULDN'T CONTROL HIMSELF!" That is not a man, that is a bastard, no other way to describe him. A man has NO RIGHT to pressure a woman he has had sex with to have an ABORTION, and I mean NONE!