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Originally Posted by talaniman

No Clete that's the dufus spin to justify his cruelty and hide his mismanagement. They are neither illegal nor criminals and deserve the milk of Christian kindness until we sort the mess out. I don't think I've heard the dufus mention Jesus not once, and his sidekick smiling Mike is as fake as they come.

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I think you need to stop leveling blame at the top, if failure exists it exists in operations, on the ground right at the coal face. Christian kindness has nothing to do with it unless you are suggesting administration of this problem should be handed to the churches. There is a duty of care, nothing to do with Christian kindness. These people are supposedly Christian and yet they travel thousands of miles to demand someone else take responsibility for their circumstance. Hardly a Christian attitude, so keep Jesus out of it because these are the poor he told us will always be with us. If you are concerned, lobby your government to improve their circumstance in the country of origin. Stop over producing in your own economy and buy goods from them

If the top doesn't address the failures and correct them then he is held in account because that's his job plain and simple. Lol, if the top takes all the credit for success should he not get the blame for failure? That includes assisting the many volunteers from charity and churches who are overwhelmed but work tirelessly to do what they can. I find it fascinating you you just pass over my observation that it is the dufus who ignores Jesus when you have no problem reminding everyone else of what a sin that is. How about applying that same standard to the top dufus.

Unless of course you find him irredeemable. He obviously wants no part of your salvation.

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How about applying that same standard to the top dufus.

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So it would be OK to hold Obama responsible for the IRS scandal, the VA scandal, the Fast and Furious scandal, and the Benghazi debacle? I ask because I did not see liberals doing that very thing when Obama was in office. To this very day you will not do it, so wouldn't that be a double standard?

You had the chance to do just that and you blew it. Maybe we will fair no better with the dufus, but it is our turn.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

If the top doesn't address the failures and correct them then he is held in account because that's his job plain and simple. Lol, if the top takes all the credit for success should he not get the blame for failure? That includes assisting the many volunteers from charity and churches who are overwhelmed but work tirelessly to do what they can. I find it fascinating you you just pass over my observation that it is the dufus who ignores Jesus when you have no problem reminding everyone else of what a sin that is. How about applying that same standard to the top dufus.

Unless of course you find him irredeemable. He obviously wants no part of your salvation.

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Is Trump a Christian, I am not in a position to judge, however, his family appears more Jewish than Christian. Trump has searched himself and found his god. He basks in his own glory. All people are redeemable, it takes humility and repentance

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You had the chance to do just that and you blew it.

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Not true. I have consistently laid blame at the feet of Trump for horrendous budget deficits and for passing tax cuts without spending cuts. As to the border, I don't see that as a pressing issue. It's unfortunate what is happening, but we did not invite those people to come here, and they are being treated better than they were in their own countries. I see a lot of liberals whining about the situation, but I don't see any of them down there using their own time and resources to help those people. When you have a migrant family living in your house, or you have employed them and helped them find a home, then come back and tell us about it.

Talk is one thing accountability is totally another. We both accuse the other side of whatever we don't like and in truth it doesn't present enough evidence in a court of law. Don't expect me to join you blasting Obama, that's a waste of my time so sorry you weren't around when he was the prez.

The opposition had their fun, now it's my turn and have at it I surely will.

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Is Trump a Christian, I am not in a position to judge, however, his family appears more Jewish than Christian. Trump has searched himself and found his god. He basks in his own glory. All people are redeemable, it takes humility and repentance

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The dufus is neither humble nor likely to repent, so I guess his supporters don't care what god he worships. Frankly neither do I but he is a selfish cruel bully in his ways of dealing with things. Surprised that religious types do support him was just my observation.

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As to the border, I don't see that as a pressing issue. It's unfortunate what is happening, but we did not invite those people to come here, and they are being treated better than they were in their own countries. I see a lot of liberals whining about the situation, but I don't see any of them down there using their own time and resources to help those people. When you have a migrant family living in your house, or you have employed them and helped them find a home, then come back and tell us about it.

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Like conservatives don't whine. I just see us as better than what we have presented so far. By US I mean the government that represents us. Your the guy hollering about killing kids in the womb, but abuse and neglect seem to be okay with you when it comes to migrant kids. That's a bit inconsistent.

Personally I don't mind supporting kids, the weak, helpless or needy through my tax dollars. Even migrant kids and people who show up at the border. Beats giving it to a rich guy who hoards it for his own kids and sends me and mine (And yours) the bill!

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Talk is one thing accountability is totally another

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I have seen you neither talk about Obama's errors nor hold him accountable, so I can handle it as long as we acknowledge that it cuts both ways.

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By US I mean the government that represents us.

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The battle cry of liberals. Let someone else take care of it. And in this statement, we see it in application. "Personally I don't mind supporting kids, the weak, helpless or needy through my tax dollars." And in practice, it seems to end up being, "Tax the rich and let them take care of it." So it just looks like a strategy to enable liberals to suppose they occupy the moral high ground when, in truth, they really just don't want to be bothered. Or at least that's how it comes across to me. In the meantime, Christians both oppose abortion and fund/operate pregnancy centers, promote adoption, and do so with their own, non-taxed dollars.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

As to the border, I don't see that as a pressing issue. It's unfortunate what is happening, but we did not invite those people to come here, and they are being treated better than they were in their own countries.

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"Unfortunate" what is happening? You don't see it as a "pressing issue"? They are "treated better than they were in their own countries"?

Here's another comment previously made by jlisenbe - sarcastically responding to a call for the milk of Christian kindness by refusing such kindness since the possible recipients are "not known"!

It is not easy to respond to such evil, especially to one who claims to be a Bible-believing Christian.

Here's part of a previous post dealing with these issues and with jls.

Here's what was found by a legal team from Willemette University:

Children aged 0,0,1,2,4,5 0, 2,1 - and on and on.
Sleeping on concrete including infants.
Being fed frankenfood three times a day for days on end.
Children filthy - no soap, no diapers, no hygiene even minimally.
Lice infestation, no showers.

That's only a partial list of the horrors.

The situation was so bad the legal team considered it life-threatening. So they went to the press to expose Trump's policies. Clint is right outside of El Paso and it was by chance they stumbled onto it.

Yet you Jlsenbe refuse them the milk of Christian kindness because you don't know them! Does an infant need an ID for you to offer help?

I could not help but be reminded of your previous support and approval of your God slaughtering Canaanite children because their parents didn't measure up - just like the parents of these innocents. In case some children don't survive, you'll be sure to tell the world they will go to hell because they are unbelievers. You've got it covered from infancy to death.

You are one sick puppy, jls.

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Unfortunate" what is happening? You don't see it as a "pressing issue"? They are "treated better than they were in their own countries"?

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In their own countries, weren't they caught between gangs and druglords and bombs and bullets? I'd certainly head for someplace safer!

What annoys me are the frequent mentions that these children don't have toothbrushes. Of all the help and care they need, toothbrushes wouldn't be at the top of my list to send them. They're living in filth, sleep on cold concrete floors, eat uncooked (even frozen) food, have lost their parents probably forever. My heart breaks!

I would be quite willing to speculate that I have done as much for those immigrant children as you have, unless you want to count complaining on a message board read by ten people.

It's amazing to me that, when we mention the incredibly good economy, all liberals want to make sure to point out that Obama should get some credit for that, but when we talk about the shortage of facilities on the southern border and the avalanche of people coming across, it's suddenly all on Trump.

I'll say it again. We did not invite these people to come. They are housed securely and fed on a regular basis. It's not the Holiday Inn, but it is probably better than what they are accustomed to. Having spent 8 days in the boonies of Guatemala, it is hard to imagine how their living conditions could be that bad. When people come in uninvited and yet are housed, fed, and kept secure, then I think we are making an effort. And as usual, there are no liberal groups flocking down to the border to make things better. There is just the usual vitriol against Trump from people who were notably silent when Obama was in office.

I could not find the article you quoted from, but I did find the one below which notes that these problems have been in place for decades, meaning that Mr. Obama had his chance and did next to nothing to solve the problem.

So rail on Trump if it makes you feel better, but if you really want to be honest, you'll do likewise with Obama.

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They are housed securely and fed on a regular basis. It's not the Holiday Inn, but it is probably better than what they are accustomed to.

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No, what they are enduring now is NOT better!

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Having spent 8 days in the boonies of Guatemala, it is hard to imagine how their living conditions could be that bad.

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Because now they aren't free and are locked up like animals -- no, in conditions worse than animals!

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When people come in uninvited and yet are housed, fed, and kept secure, then I think we are making an effort.

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"Housed, fed, and kept secure"? Are you kidding me???

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

....It's amazing to me that all liberals want to make sure to point out that Obama should get some credit for that....... We did not invite these people to come. They are housed securely and fed on a regular basis. ........................................... better than what they are accustomed to. .... and are housed, fed, and kept secure, ... when Obama was in office.

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Children, including infants and toddlers, are living in horrendous conditions - some are dying - and all you can manage to do is comment on Obama and "liberals". You need a moral bath.

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No, what they are enduring now is NOT better!

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So you've been to Guatemala and you know this? I've been there, and Guatemala is better than some other CA countries. So these people are not coming from the U.S. They are coming from terrible backgrounds. As of the present time, 90% of them do not show up for their asylum hearings.

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"Housed, fed, and kept secure"? Are you kidding me???

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No, I'm not kidding. It's true so far as I can tell. I have no doubt it is better than the conditions many homeless Americans live in. Besides, where were you when this was going on under Obama???

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Children, including infants and toddlers, are living in horrendous conditions - some are dying - and all you can manage to do is comment on Obama and "liberals". You need a moral bath.

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Tried your link. Took me so some strange sight called "All Duty Station". Kind of a dead end.

I have to comment on Obama. You don't seem to be willing to do it or to admit that this is a problem that has been many years in the making, including the eight years of Obama. Now when you are willing to include him in your fault assessment, you will start to have a little bit of moral credibility. Until then, it just looks like TDS.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Until then, it just looks like TDS.

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The derangement is all yours. Your silence speaks volumes.

"I tell you, if these keep silent, the very stones would cry out".

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

So you've been to Guatemala and you know this?

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I have two friends in Colombia and one in Brazil.

"Crime is rampant throughout Guatemala, where police are outnumbered and unable to address every issue of violence. Crimes against travelers are part of the country’s high crime rate and include theft, robbery, carjacking, and rape. Visitors should protect themselves by traveling discreetly. Avoid taking valuables into the country, and carefully secure any valuable that you must take. The U.S. Department of State advises that you should not resist an attack, as most Guatemalan criminals are violent and will not hesitate to cause harm."
https://traveltips.usatoday.com/guat...ings-1546.html

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No, I'm not kidding. It's true so far as I can tell. I have no doubt it is better than the conditions many homeless Americans live in. Besides, where were you when this was going on under Obama???

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"Better than"???? Surely you jest! Do you know any homeless people? I did for the 25+ years I worked in public libraries. We always steered them toward getting whatever services were needed. Public libraries do that. And yes, I donated/donate to charities that I know will help.

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"Better than"???? Surely you jest! Do you know any homeless people? I did for the 25+ years I worked in public libraries. We always steered them toward getting whatever services were needed. Public libraries do that. And yes, I donated/donate to charities that I know will help.

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I have worked with many homeless people. Our city has hundreds of them camped out around the town. Maybe they live in the lap of luxury in your city, but here it's tough. Hot in summer, cold and wet in winter. Now you are free to believe what you want, but having a secure place to stay and three meals a day is better than a lot of the homeless have.

I assume from your reply you have never actually been to the boonies of Central America. Until you have, you might want to reserve judgement a little. I've seen it. No medical care. No dental care. You eat only what you can grow. You've also not been to our border to see these camps. I just don't think you are in any position to have an accurate idea of what they left and what they've come to.

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The derangement is all yours. Your silence speaks volumes.

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Sorry, but making vitriolic posts on message boards just does not strike me as making a great effort to help these people. When you've done more than that, get back with us. And like I said before, if you want me to take your moral position seriously, then be prepared to lash out at Obama in the same way you do towards Trump over this issue. It has been going on for many years.

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having a secure place to stay and three meals a day

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But they DON'T have that! Spoiled food, still-frozen food, and certainly not three times a day. Secure place? Bright lights are on 24/7, cold concrete to sleep on, Mylar blankets? Even the guards are molesting and raping the migrant kids. El Paso residents took disposable diapers, clean clothes, soap, wipes, and other essentials to the detention center near them and were turned away.

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But they DON'T have that! Spoiled food, still-frozen food, and certainly not three times a day. Secure place? Bright lights are on 24/7, cold concrete to sleep on, Mylar blankets? Even the guards are molesting and raping the migrant kids

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How do you know this?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

How do you know this?

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***Doctors and attorneys say hundreds of young people are living under inhumane conditions at a border control station in Clint, Texas. They say they found about 250 infants, children and teens locked up for weeks without adequate food, water and sanitation.A researcher told "CBS This Morning" that at the Clint facility, about 20 miles southeast of El Paso, more than a dozen children had the flu, and that some were in quarantine cells without adult supervision. The researcher added that young girls were taking care of a sick two-year-old boy who was in filthy clothing without a diaper, and that the children said they were fed uncooked frozen food and had gone weeks without bathing. CBS News reached out to immigration officials, and has not yet heard back.***
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/childre...attorneys-say/

Here's another one:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...onditions.html

$700-800 per person per day/night.