The fore fathers put the right to bear arms in the constitution, and gave the legislature the authority to make and enforce the laws, and secure the well being of the nation, and its citizens against all enemies foreign, and domestic... or elected. The responsibility and duty of all it's citizen is to ensure our elected representatives do what the F**** we tell them to do.

Since when do we allow ANY special interest group to circumvent our RIGHTS, and FREEDOMS? Enough talk lets VOTE! I'm with the kids, talk without actions is BS! You want a gun go get one, but play by the rules.

That's the problem! The rules are inadequate for the safety of the citizens! ​Action is required!

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Just like they don’t want to solve the DACA problem, why didn’t the Democrats pass gun control legislation when they had both the House & Senate during the Obama Administration. Because they didn’t want to, and now they just talk!

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Typical con man BS! Look back and criticize while so far he hasn't done anything about it either except make it a wedge for HIS racist agenda. Does that answer the question?

Hmm, didn't he sign an EO eliminating not just Obamas EO about the dreamers, but also making it easier for the mentally ill to buy a gun? Why are you listening to a PROVEN lying, cheating, racist bully, who colludes with Vlad?

you mean that Obama EO that he signed on his last days in office that never went into effect ;that

did not change any existing laws regulating who is allowed to purchase guns ? Yes he did . The emperor's order would've made it mandatory for Social Security Adm to release the names of mentally ill SS recipients that the SS Agency deemed too dangerous to own guns ? You do realize that this was an outrageous order that even the ACLU opposed ?

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We oppose this rule because it advances and reinforces the harmful stereotype that people with mental disabilities, a vast and diverse group of citizens, are violent. There is no data to support a connection between the need for a representative payee to manage one’s Social Security disability benefits and a propensity toward gun violence. The rule further demonstrates the damaging phenomenon of “spread,” or the perception that a disabled individual with one area of impairment automatically has additional, negative and unrelated attributes. Here, the rule automatically conflates one disability-related characteristic, that is, difficulty managing money, with the inability to safely possess a firearm.

The rule includes no meaningful due process protections prior to the SSA’s transmittal of names to the NICS database. The determination by SSA line staff that a beneficiary needs a representative payee to manage their money benefit is simply not an “adjudication” in any ordinary meaning of the word. Nor is it a determination that the person “[l]acks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs” as required by the NICS. Indeed, the law and the SSA clearly state
AMERICAN

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https://waysandmeans.house.gov/wp-co...17/01/ACLU.pdf

The rule would have allowed bureaucrats to bar American citizens from exercising a constitutional right on the grounds that to be incapable of managing one’s finances is, by definition, to be a “mental defective.”

Shame on anyone who supported this ruling based on a stereotype and prejudice .

herr Donald's point remains .... the Dems did NOTHING about gun control in the early days of the emperor's reign when they controlled everything .

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safeguard against a tyrannical government

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Guns will not ever give us that safeguard.

The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
- St. George Tucker,

Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England,

1803

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Originally Posted by tomder55

1803

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The date says it all. Now, let's rewrite that for the 21st century.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
- St. George Tucker,

Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England,

1803

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And tell me Tom has the right of the British people to freedom and liberty been eroded after 200 years, guns still exist in Britain, but they don't suffer the violence of the US. You have swallowed the propaganda

Clete guns in Great Britain are a privilege not a right . So yes I think their rights are eroded .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
- St. George Tucker,

Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England,

1803

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This is a perfect example of the right-wing living in the past. Do you really believe a handful of citizens armed with pistols and rifles can stand up against a "tyrannical" government armed with tanks, fighter planes, aircraft carriers and nuclear bombs? Not to mention a multi-million member Army, Navy and Air Force?

No, self-defense is the propaganda the gun lobby wants you to believe, and you have swallowed it wholesale. Wake up and realize that the gun manufacturers are manipulating you to protect their almighty PROFITS!

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The date says it all. Now, let's rewrite that for the 21st century.

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Nothing to rewrite . The principle is universal .

Hitler signed the Weapons Law of 1938, which basically said Jews weren’t allowed to own guns. He also issued Weapons Orders in the occupied countries that basically made gun ownership by non-Germans punishable by death.Chairman Mao prohibited firearm ownership in Communist China when he came to power, and that is still in effect today.T

he resistance movement forces of occupied Europe were comprised of armed civilians .

A dictator can only dictate effectively to a population that has no other choice but to follow the dictator's dictates. An armed population always has a choice.

“All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party.”
Mao Tze Tung, Nov 6, 1938

Athos presumes that the Army will stand with the tyrannical government instead of the free people . The clear mind set of the people living in the indoctrinated present .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

An armed population always has a choice.

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Armed with WHAT?

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Athos presumes that the Army will stand with the tyrannical government instead of the free people.

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Has it ever not?

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Athos presumes that the Army will stand with the tyrannical government instead of the free people . The clear mind set of the people living in the indoctrinated present .

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You need to read a book on History. Any book will do.

Look at the generals around the head of government at present - they even lie for the wanna-be tyrant. Do you seriously think they would stand with anyone but the government? Wanna buy a bridge in Brooklyn?

I note you avoided commenting on my gun lobby and profits comment. When you're confused about what is happening, there is an old expression that fits here - FOLLOW THE MONEY!

Okay Tom, let's try this, what do you propose to prevent gun violence, or are you saying nothing to see here move along, and just wait for the next massacre?

The gun lobby is pikers compared to other lobby groups like ...the unions SEIU ;and AFT ,even groups like Planned Parenthood spend more lobbying . The reason the NRA has clout is because it is a true people's lobby. Outside of the echo chamber ,the people support the right to own guns .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The gun lobby is pikers compared to other lobby groups like ...the unions SEIU ;and AFT ,even groups like Planned Parenthood spend more lobbying . The reason the NRA has clout is because it is a true people's lobby. Outside of the echo chamber ,the people support the right to own guns .

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Tal - He has no proposal. All he can do is strike out at other lobbying groups, none of which have the slightest thing to do with the NRA. That is the typical stance of Trump and the right-wing. Deflect and distract.

He says the NRA "is a true people's lobby". Is he trying to be funny?

The reason the NRA has clout is it pays off the politicians, but the fix to this is to change focus and licence ownership. If you want an AR-15 then be licensed and go through a gun safety course. This doesn't abridge anyone's right of ownership, but it does mean the checks will be done. Why people are so paranoid about their identity is purcular, you can't drive a lethal weapon like a SUV without a license and training

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The gun lobby is pikers compared to other lobby groups like ...the unions SEIU ;and AFT ,even groups like Planned Parenthood spend more lobbying . The reason the NRA has clout is because it is a true people's lobby. Outside of the echo chamber ,the people support the right to own guns .

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The people support reasonable gun control laws too, overwhelmingly.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/20/polit...oll/index.html

to now

Guns | Gallup Historical Trends

Please say whether you favor or oppose each of the following. [RANDOM ORDER].

	Favor	Oppose	No opinion
	%	%	%
Requiring background checks for all gun purchases	96	4	*
Enacting a 30-day waiting period for all gun sales	75	24	1
Requiring all privately-owned guns to be registered with the police	70	29	1
Oct. 5-11, 2017; * Less than 0.5%

What else do you need?

What else do you need, make political payoffs illegal, disband the PAC's and get the snouts out of the trough

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If you want an AR-15 then be licensed and go through a gun safety course. This doesn't abridge anyone's right of ownership, but it does mean the checks will be done. Why people are so paranoid about their identity is purcular, you can't drive a lethal weapon like a SUV without a license and training

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Generally agree. The opposition to registry is perhaps paranoia . But there is a concern that what was once legal will become illegal and the government can use that registry to confiscate . Think despots haven't done that in the past ? Think again.

Tal you know and I know that the ones screaming the loudest if you got your way would be the public and private labor unions .

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Originally Posted by paraclete

What else do you need, make political payoffs illegal, disband the PAC's and get the snouts out of the trough

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Good Suggestion Aussie!

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The people support reasonable gun control laws too, overwhelmingly.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/20/polit...oll/index.html

to now

Guns | Gallup Historical Trends

Please say whether you favor or oppose each of the following. [RANDOM ORDER].

	Favor	Oppose	No opinion
	%	%	%
Requiring background checks for all gun purchases	96	4	*
Enacting a 30-day waiting period for all gun sales	75	24	1
Requiring all privately-owned guns to be registered with the police	70	29	1
Oct. 5-11, 2017; * Less than 0.5%

What else do you need?

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Then you should have no issue getting your panacea laws passed ;and the question remains . If it was so popular then why didn't the Dems and the emperor pass those laws in 2009-11 when they had absolute majorities in the elective branches of government ?