Its summed up quite simply... Life is harsh... life isn't fair. It wasn't a cake walk here under the British....and quite a few people died before we got our freedom from them....they can do that too. Or they don't deserve it.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Its summed up quite simply... Life is harsh... life isn't fair. It wasn't a cake walk here under the British....and quite a few people died before we got our freedom from them....they can do that too. Or they don't deserve it.

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So,"Nuts to them." Heck, we didn't have anyone helping us defeat the British ... or did we?

Reminds me of Pastor Niemoller's poem --

"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a communist; Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a socialist; Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a trade unionist; Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew; Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak out for me."

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

But they have no knowledge in or experience with alternate points of view and political ideas. For instance, look at North Korea and what has been drummed into the heads of the populace for decades. You and I know there's a better way, but they don't. Or don't dare mention it out loud. Torture and death will result. Look how far Vietnam has come (and is still moving forward).

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Vietnam hasn't come very far dissent isn't tolerated, don't think the North Koreans don't know there is a better way, they just don't know how to attain it, but communism on NK is a religion, leader veneration in a slightly more extreme version than found in the US

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

So,"Nuts to them." Heck, we didn't have anyone helping us defeat the British ... or did we?

Reminds me of Pastor Niemoller's poem --

"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a communist; Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a socialist; Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a trade unionist; Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew; Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak out for me."

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We'd have still been under British rule... before the Russians or the Germans, maybe even the Japanese took over the world.

Nothing pretty about war... but losing one because you weren't willing to do what it took to win is far uglier.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

We'd have still been under British rule... before the Russians or the Germans, maybe even the Japanese took over the world.

Nothing pretty about war... but losing one because you weren't willing to do what it took to win is far uglier.

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My point was, we had help. We had allies. We didn't gain independence all by our little selves.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

My point was, we had help. We had allies. We didn't gain independence all by our little selves.

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Not that awful much during the revolutionary war...and the Brits at the time were a major world power not a two bit thug. But if they won't fight for their OWN country, they don't deserve to run to anyone else's. Particularly since none of them are fighting for independence from anyone.

Guilty as charged.