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Originally Posted by tomder55

I love going to the ATM instead of having to walk into the bank and interact with a teller .Saves me a lot of time . I love using the self check out in the grocery store .It's the only place in the store I don't have to wait in a long line to pay for my food.
By Tal's and your standard evaluation the restaurant owners are greedy bass turds . So if they are forced to pay more for low skill labor ,they are naturally going to push back and find ways to reduce payroll.

Carl's Jr. wants to open automated location - Business Insider


New McDonald's In Phoenix Run Entirely By Robots - News Examiner - Examine Your World

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Let me tell you a little story from the far side Tom, your thinking stinks by the way, In my part of the world we have a highly developed cafe' and restaurant society including even michelin capped chefs vying to get in on the action, staff are paid a fair wage and don't have to rely on tips to survive, Business is booming' Not all advances in automation are bad and if you want to do the work yourself at the supermarket or the gas station go ahead, Have you noticed they haven't automated plumbing or electrical work. I suggest that when they get to automated medicine you draw the line but they won't do that because there are too many pigs with their snout in the trough. You have to ask, what are we going to do with all those workers sitting on their bum doing nothing but play with their phones all day? We are going to have to stop people making babies because it is illogical to allow the population to increase under these circumstances unless of course you want cannon fodder. When I started in my profession we used pen and paper and maybe a slide rule or adding machine, when I retired I could do the work of seven men, no longer needed a secretary but I worked longer hours and had high blood pressure. Was it worth it? In some cases yes, but what were those who were displaced doing?

Gotcha, so wrap your head around subsidizing low skilled workers that have low paying jobs. Even for multinational companies who use cheap foreign labor and have billions in profits, and get tax breaks for moving overseas. While your at it find something for the workers who's jobs get eliminated by technology. For that matter you better find something for all those kids who can get jobs to pay for those loans so they could get a skilled job.

I doubt you can eliminate the nanny state without solving POVERTY.

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Have you noticed they haven't automated plumbing or electrical work.

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Clete and Tal
That is correct those are highly skilled professions that will not be displaced . Neither will those chefs be displaced . I suggest those people sitting on their bums because they lost their jobs to automation retrain and learn a skill that has value ;as you did . You did not end your career with a slide rule and a pencil . The draftsman did not stop working because the cad machine displaced the graph paper .The burger flipper is and always was a starter job. Back in the day when the government wasn't subsidizing such work ,the young worker starting out took those jobs and then moved on making room for the next young workers etc . The government in it's infinite wisdom decided that burger flipping should be a career ,and that a burger flipper should be able to raise a family .So burger flipper became a permanent job. Now there are none for the young person looking to make a few dollars while going to school ; and the burger flipper is stuck in a job they hate, is unsatisfying ,and believing they are underpaid victims . It's your ideas that stink.

Tal no one can solve poverty, it is a state of mind, but we can be sensitive to low wages and circumstances of those who try hard but their capitalist owners just don't have compassion and understand that if they have a loyal employee they should reward that employee with increased wages. What has developed is a dog in the manger attitude where they will just pay the least they can.

Study loans are a nonsense, it is just a way of eductors gouging students while offering course that impart no useful skills. What we should have is government support for vital skills, paying the student fees on performance and let those who want to study the arts and non essential skills to pay for their course. So what I'm syaing is Stem courses and medicine should be subsidied, as should trades and the crap courses shouldn't be. Extension courses such as masters and PHD should not be subsidised by student loans

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Tal no one can solve poverty, it is a state of mind, but we can be sensitive to low wages and circumstances of those who try hard but their capitalist owners just don't have compassion and understand that if they have a loyal employee they should reward that employee with increased wages. What has developed is a dog in the manger attitude where they will just pay the least they can.

Study loans are a nonsense, it is just a way of eductors gouging students while offering course that impart no useful skills. What we should have is government support for vital skills, paying the student fees on performance and let those who want to study the arts and non essential skills to pay for their course. So what I'm syaing is Stem courses and medicine should be subsidied, as should trades and the crap courses shouldn't be. Extension courses such as masters and PHD should not be subsidised by student loans

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I worked and took out loans to go to school. It was my choice and I assumed the risk. I also paid back every penny I borrowed with interest .It is in fact government subsidizing of college education that has driven the cost of education up so much.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

I doubt you can eliminate the nanny state without solving POVERTY.

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Eliminating the Nanny state will take just about as long as creating it took: about half a century. It can be done by teaching kids to stand up for themselves instead of relying on bureaucrats. Byproducts will include more fist fights in grade school but fewer shootings in high school, more confidence but fewer participation trophies, less need for 'safe spaces' and more need for faculty lounges, and more lemonade stands and fewer flash mobs.

As far as solving "POVERTY," first we will need a definition in absolute terms rather than merely income statistics. Owning a 3 bedroom house with a garage is seldom considered "poor" except by the nanny state.

http://www.heritage.org/research/rep...hat-is-poverty

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I worked and took out loans to go to school. It was my choice and I assumed the risk. I also paid back every penny I borrowed with interest .It is in fact government subsidizing of college education that has driven the cost of education up so much.

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And isn't that what I said but only those who get a good job can repay and we shouldn't be burdening kids that way, student loans are a crap idea

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Originally Posted by Catsmine

Eliminating the Nanny state will take just about as long as creating it took: about half a century. It can be done by teaching kids to stand up for themselves instead of relying on bureaucrats. Byproducts will include more fist fights in grade school but fewer shootings in high school, more confidence but fewer participation trophies, less need for 'safe spaces' and more need for faculty lounges, and more lemonade stands and fewer flash mobs.
What is Poverty in the United States: Air Conditioning, Cable TV and an Xbox

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I truly think you are out of touch, some people really scrimp to own their own home. My daughter has been on a slow road down with three houses thus far because her husband's income is basic and she can't get a job, not a lot going in this area for a forty something who has just got three teens off her hands
. You see it can be that to rent is just as expensive as to own. Unless you are renting a dump

Poverty is about not being able to afford the essentials, power, gas, rates and it can be the person doesn't have a good grasp on money management, but there is the factor of low income even with a family member in employment. Big bills like medical aren't easily handled and that isn't appreciated by someone who has more than enough and certainly not by silver tailed politicians who will never have to worry again. I laugh when I see a power hungry rich man want the top job in the country

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Originally Posted by paraclete

And isn't that what I said but only those who get a good job can repay and we shouldn't be burdening kids that way, student loans are a crap idea

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Then stop the propaganda we sell them that a college education is the path to Nirvana.

Thanks for the link, I just wonder how a stove and refrigerator can be considered an amenity, or why poverty in America can be compared to poverty anywhere else? Bottom line you can't live off $13,000 bucks a year with kids, try it and let me know how you make out. Factor in most are single working moms and tell me what kind of car they drive to that minimum wage job, or a family of two low income wage earners that can only afford one clunker.

We still are only talking about a nanny state that costs 10% of the American GDP, far less than the subsidies given to rich guy farmers and billionaires. Do the math, the nanny state is more than just people below a poverty wage, which conservatives vilify and begrudge but say NOTHING about corporate welfare. Here are some more recent facts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social..._United_States

The least you guys can do is stop bullying poor men, women, and kids while you worship guys like Trump who have come out of the last recession no worse for wear. Plus the national debt isn't caused by poor people, though they are the first to be cut and blamed for taking money we don't have, but those welfare checks to Big Biz in the form of tax cuts, and off the book wars.

Now think of the rest of the planet who don't make that $13G a year and who have no refrigerator, or cable, or any other social programs for that matter. Are we seeing a bigger picture here yet?

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Then stop the propaganda we sell them that a college education is the path to Nirvana.

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LOL, without that college education you will be making minimum wage for sure, sadly not everyone can afford or is college material. Nobody looks for Nirvana just a chance at a decent life. That's the American Dream. You got something against hoping for better?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

LOL, without that college education you will be making minimum wage for sure, sadly not everyone can afford or is college material. Nobody looks for Nirvana just a chance at a decent life. That's the American Dream. You got something against hoping for better?

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Honestly ,the pathway to my career was not my college education .It was the work I did to pay for it that led me to where I am today. In the old days what I did was called an apprenticeship .It led to a career .Now I don't say that there was no value in the education I got . College taught me to be a critical thinker . On the down side ;it took me some time to deprogram from the indoctrination. Trust me ;I would not be making a minimum wage or anything close to it . The last time I made minimum wage,or less (back then there was a different wage for teens working ) was in high school. I NEVER saw that as the end game. Until recently I was always looking to advance . Long hours and on the job learning was my path .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Then stop the propaganda we sell them that a college education is the path to Nirvana.

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Where did I say that? Actually you sell them a right of passage, but where does it lead? Some come out ahead and others have no path because the market is oversupplied until it gets to the stage that unless you have a PHD you are not going anywhere. All you produce are educated idiots, where are the products of this system who have made the world better? A rich man can buy a presidency, no brains needed as is being demonstrated and some dlckhead will give him an hononary PHD

Same here Tom but I never knock those who lacked the aptitude that I had, nor begrudged anyone going through a hard time through no fault of their own. I've seen and experienced many things that make me grateful for my good fortunes, and to be honest admire the spirit of those with less who are decent honest people who keep trying and are actually happy about what little they do have.

Unfortunately Tom, I think we never see the folks who quietly manage as best they can with very little, and only pay attention to the loudmouths who have a hand full of gimme and never a much obliged. Do some volunteering and I think you and my man Smoothy would get your eyes open to the true condition of the majority of poor folks, and how they really live, and you would understand the ignorant are a minority.

Indeed it's a fact that poor people don't cause recessions, oil spills, or unemployment, but those things do make people poor.

<See ya' later TODAY OjO>