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Originally Posted by smoothy

He should have been locked up years ago... and he would have if the ACLU hadn't won the unlimited freedom of mental patients decades ago from a liberal court.

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You can't just lock up people with aspergers but you do have to keep their interactions to a minimum

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He was in therapy since he was 8, and DAILY therapy throughout high school. You have to be seriously screwed up to need daily therapy sessions

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so you think people who are in therapy should be locked up, no doubt this individual didn't function well and his therapist should have been advising his family to intervene. If he was in therapy I expect his increasing frustration would have been evident and signalled at least a warning if not admission

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Not the same . It's about narcissism. The women had to want him to make the conquest a success.
BTW ;he hacked to death 3 of his victims ;he ran down others with the BMW daddy got him. He could've also achieved his goals by being an arsonist and burn down the Sorority House . So this bs about guns is just that . BS . America has had a "gun culture " throughout it's history without these incidents .

You know the answer but will not say it. We have drifted as a society away from God . Elliot in particular was his own god ."How could those girls pick this guy, the descendant of slaves, when they should be picking me, the descendant of English royalty?" He couldn't cope with the fact that he couldn't get a hook up in Sodom.
BTW ,his old man once made a movie where he travelled around asking celebrities what God meant to them. The movie flopped and almost bankrupted him. He then went out and made a success by making a movie about teens who kill each other in a ritualistic survival game.

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God helps you when you make a commitment, whether a person in his condition is capable of understanding the concept is mute. as to America's gun culture who knows what monsters it created, you have had many serial killers but the gun hasn't protected you.

I just want to respond to the comment about being shy at a dance, the fear of rejection is powerful and if you have been rejected often it is difficult and must have been more difficult for a person in his condition. Not everyone who is rejected in such circumstances is in need of therapy, but the gun culture means that it becomes a solution to a problem whether as a instrument to suicide or an instrument of revenge.

Society failed this fellow because he should not have been at liberty, but he would not have been able to do as much damage without access to guns

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Originally Posted by paraclete

You can't just lock up people with aspergers but you do have to keep their interactions to a minimum

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No, you don't! You want them to socialize as much as possible and learn how to pick up body language and facial cues.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

You can't just lock up people with aspergers but you do have to keep their interactions to a minimum



so you think people who are in therapy should be locked up, no doubt this individual didn't function well and his therapist should have been advising his family to intervene. If he was in therapy I expect his increasing frustration would have been evident and signalled at least a warning if not admission

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A 22 year old that's been in therapy since he was 8... on its own is reason to look.. the fact he's ALSO had very disturbing YOUTUBE videos dating back MONTHS everyone knew about is even more cause.

He sent the manifesto to approx 30 people 15 minutes before he started killing people... did the therapist call the police like they were required to do? No... they called the parents ( we know they got it right away... and they called the parents when the police should have been notified). None of the 30 at this point are said to have called the police.

Its also clear from people that knew him that were interviewed....he was one serious weirdo. Nobody that knew him is claiming he was a sweat nice guy they just can't understand what happened. He was a freak....and was always a freak.

People like him should have been locked up and off the streets. But apparently his right to wreak havoc and murder people when all the signs were there for a long time outweighed the rights of those six to have a life.

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Society failed this fellow because he should not have been at liberty,

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How's this for a concept. There is such a thing as evil and evil people ;and nothing that society can do to change that.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

No, you don't! You want them to socialize as much as possible and learn how to pick up body language and facial cues.

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I'm sure that's going to be a great comfort to the parents, friends and family of the six people killed by this guy. After all his rights were more important than theirs were.

I wouldn't do it at arms length or if there was any chance they could outrun you. I don't even think California types are that touchy feely they would sacrifice their own children in the name of whatever you would call it.

If he killed one of my kids... and they declared him mentally unfit... and he got off for some more therapy... if he was ever released in my lifetime... he would meet with a 'stray" bullet when he never expected it shortly after he got out.

No I do not believe in the insanity defense... or for mental incapacity. If they were healthy enough to be walking the streets, they are healthy enough to answer for their actions just like anyone else.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

I'm sure that's going to be a great comfort to the parents, friends and family of the six people killed by this guy. After all his rights were more important than theirs were.

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If he'd been taught to understand body language and facial expressions, been socialized in various ways, we wouldn't be here today talking about this. It has nothing to do with "rights."

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No I do not believe in the insanity defense... or for mental incapacity. If they were healthy enough to be walking the streets, they are healthy enough to answer for their actions just like anyone else.

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You've never talked with person suffering from paranoid schizophrenia, have you. Or a sociopath.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

If he'd been taught to understand body language and facial expressions, been socialized in various ways, we wouldn't be here today talking about this. It has nothing to do with "rights."

You've never talked with person suffering from paranoid schizophrenia, have you.

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I don't NEED to... they shouldn't be running loose. THEY decide THEY don't need or want the meds... next thing innocent people are suffereing. Paranoid Scizophrenics are a danger to not only themselves...but others around them.

He was ranting about no Popular girl wanting to have sex with him... Well DUH!. he can hire a prostitute if he needs it THAT bad, dad was rich he wasn't from some "underprivleged" family in South Central.... he's not entitled to that from anyone he wants anymore than anyone else's is... which is not at all.

And nothing I've seen or heard so far indicates this is because of asbergers... He was a world class dork with a overactive ego. 30 years ago people would have knocked some sense into him rather than feed his warped image of self worth that lead to this. But thats not politically correct these days.

Cripes...14 hours or more a day playing World of Warcraft? That alone indicates serious issues.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

I don't NEED to... they shouldn't be running loose. THEY decide THEY don't need or want the meds... next thing innocent people are suffereing.

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But there a lot of medicated paranoid schizophrenics and sociopaths walking the street.

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And nothing I've seen or heard so far indicates this is because of asbergers...

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Not because of Asperger's, but the first characteristic listed is social dysfunction, social anxiety. Why wasn't that dealt with years ago?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

No, you don't! You want them to socialize as much as possible and learn how to pick up body language and facial cues.

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That's just passing the buck, if you want to do that then is should be specifically taught as in a special school, not jus throw them to the wolves. It is not our responsibility to take over the training of such a person, it is a family responsibility

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Its also clear from people that knew him that were interviewed....he was one serious weirdo. Nobody that knew him is claiming he was a sweat nice guy they just can't understand what happened. He was a freak....and was always a freak.

People like him should have been locked up and off the streets. But apparently his right to wreak havoc and murder people when all the signs were there for a long time outweighed the rights of those six to have a life.

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and there it is situational ethics, you can apply this argument to an individual who fails to cope but you cannot see the parallel in the availability of guns

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Originally Posted by paraclete

That's just passing the buck, if you want to do that then is should be specifically taught as in a special school, not jus throw them to the wolves. It is not our responsibility to take over the training of such a person, it is a family responsibility


and there it is situational ethics, you can apply this argument to an individual who fails to cope but you cannot see the parallel in the availability of guns

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THis has NOTHING to do with guns... there is a Constitutional right to own guns...

I don't see a constitutional right that's as clearly written giving rights to the mentally ill to terrorize the public.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

How's this for a concept. There is such a thing as evil and evil people ;and nothing that society can do to change that.

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Ah yes but how to identify them, what you are suggesting takes us back to the dark ages, but then no surprise, it is in line with your eighteenth century Calvinist thinking.

I don't think any child is born inherently evil, but evil people corrupt because misery loves company. There is a solution but not very palatable because once you start where do you stop

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Ah yes but how to identify them, what you are suggesting takes us back to the dark ages, but then no surprise, it is in line with your eighteenth century Calvinist thinking.

I don't think any child is born inherently evil, but evil people corrupt because misery loves company. There is a solution but not very palatable because once you start where do you stop

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Oh I do believe its so... there are people born inherently evil... I've met a few in my life. THe worst one got his head blown off at 18 during an attempted armed robbery....the person he was attempting to rob blew his head off with a shotgun.......I laughed out loud when it hit the news....as far as I was concerned there wasn't a more deserving person. Another is serving life in prison right now.....a few of the others I have no idea what became of them.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

That's just passing the buck, if you want to do that then is should be specifically taught as in a special school, not jus throw them to the wolves. It is not our responsibility to take over the training of such a person, it is a family responsibility

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Yes, the parents' responsibility, plus special schooling, if necessary, and counselors/therapists working with the child.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

THis has NOTHING to do with guns... there is a Constitutional right to own guns...

I don't see a constitutional right that's as clearly written giving rights to the mentally ill to terrorize the public.

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There is a constitutional right of the general good, a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, these rights trump any other enumerated right, and don't play the SCOTUS card they are as craven as any other

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Originally Posted by paraclete

There is a constitution right of the general good, a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, these rights trump any other enumerated right, and don't play the SCOTUS card they are as craven as any other

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Really... so the sane... law abiding people don't have that right... because both can't have it... when the other group lives to rob, kill and otherwise terrorize everyone else.

THis PUNK...more than anyone else in recent decades deserved prison rape.....over, and over and over......but thats never going to happen.

At least there won't be an expensive trial....and even more expensive incarceration or endless treatment bills the taxpay will have to foot. And he's not ever going to breed.

He should have just shot himself first.....and did the world a massive favor.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Really... so the sane... law abiding people don't have that right... because both can't have it... when the other group lives to rob, kill and otherwise terrorize everyone else.

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How do you define sane when the inmates run the mad house?

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THis PUNK...more than anyone else in recent decades deserved prison rape.....over, and over and over......but thats never going to happen.

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noone deserves that and you have just shown how insane you are and why you should not own a gun

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At least there won't be an expensive trial....and even more expensive incarceration or endless treatment bills the taxpay will have to foot. And he's not ever going to breed.

He should have just shot himself first.....and did the world a massive favor.

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Now on this point perhaps we can agree but not a justification for the availability of guns

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Originally Posted by paraclete

How do you define sane when the inmates run the mad house?



noone deserves that and you have just shown how insane you are and why you should not own a gun

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He would have deserved prison rape... and it would have been poetic justice... have you heard his video rant yet? Find it and watch it if you haven't. Its all over the net right now. The way he talked like he was ENTITLED to have sex with the popular girls, because HE wanted it, and this was payback because he didn't get it (not his exact words but its close)... well, that goes two ways... he would have found out what its like when someone ELSE wants it and he didn't.

As far as the inmates running the mad house... well, yeah that does happen way too often. EVERYWHERE.

as I said before he failed to understand the concept of prostitution in Hollywood

Yes from the people who gave you MAD to the people who gave you the GFC

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Originally Posted by smoothy

THis has NOTHING to do with guns... there is a Constitutional right to own guns...

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Show me how your first and second propositions are mutually compatible.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

I don't see a constitutional right that's as clearly written giving rights to the mentally ill to terrorize the public.

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Not all laws are clearly written, it is called prescriptive legislation.