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Originally Posted by excon

Nahhhh... The government doesn't produce, process, or distribute tobacco. They DO regulate it, just like they would pot. But you make it sound like regulating is something the government has no experience doing. Really?

excon

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They don't ,you are correct,the regulate it.

BUT! (you knew there would be a BUT involved:p)

How many people do you know of that have grown their own Tobacco for their personal use,or for distribution? I'm sure there have been some, but for the most part,the only places to grow it are in such a central area,regulation is all but a given due to geography.

Weed can be grown from here to the heavens with no way to keep tabs on the growers,who grows how much,who SELLS how much,etc.. I think you get my point.

The fight for legalization of weed hasn't produced the results once thought of.Too many 'wingers' won't allow something like this to pass,even with extreme measures taken by a few cops,or the actions not taken by some bad cops,etc.

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Originally Posted by KBC

Weed can be grown from here to the heavens with no way to keep tabs on the growers,who grows how much,who SELLS how much,etc..I think you get my point.

The fight for legalization of weed hasn't produced the results once thought of. Too many 'wingers' won't allow something like this to pass,even with extreme measures taken by a few cops,or the actions not taken by some bad cops,etc.

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Hello again, K:

Couple things... If weed IS legalized, who cares who grows how much, and where it's sold, as long as it's TAXED? That's the American way.

Now, your second paragraph has some truth in it, but it also sounds defeatist. I agree, the fight for legalization hasn't produced results... The failure of the drug war, though, will all by itself, produce the desired result.. After all, 40 years is a long time to be banging our national heads against the wall. Can you imagine how good it will feel to STOP doing that? Here's a recent article by the AP you might want to read..

But, to stop trying to correct this wrong, even if 'wingers' are against my efforts, is something that I'll NEVER do. I even think I'll succeed.

excon

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Originally Posted by KBC

Tit for tat,,,the 'changing' of corporate labels,like American tobacco,,to American weed farmers,,etc.

The gateway is directly attributed to the proximity effect.Once in the 'drug culture',all the 'other vices' and drugs you think you'd NEVER do become,well,,less scary,less difficult to access,exposure to crack for the average(if there is such a thing as average) teen is low,until they take that first step towards the drug using culture.

it isn't just for the profits of less time for the crime,,weed has been 'socially accepted' in the drug culture,crack(freebasing),Heroin,Cocaine,were the heavy hitters,,looked upon(from the novice)as something to fear,,only the real druggies use those,,till they want to try it(Gateway) ,speed(ampheds.etc),Downers(Valium,barbs..etc),and the such were for the pill heads,,less respected in the drug culture,,until they want to try it(gateway)

I think you get the meaning that I have for a gateway drug.

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Do you think that it would be a gateway drug if we stopped lying to the kids?? I guess that doesn't work for the gobermint. Remember reefer maddness? That has a lot to do with the gate being left open. Some kid tries it and finds out they didn't have a psychotic episode and that they were lied to for all those years. So when the next one comes along they are clueless. When you have billboards etc showing a meth makeover your putting the truth out there. But if you lied along the way its not going to make a difference. That's why its high time to address the issues with truth. California has legal pot houses. It doesn't seem that people are dropping like flies over it. And quite frankly should people start dying over drug use in an extensive way the next guy will think first before he even considers doing it.

This issue needs to be brought to light and people need to get real about it.

Hello again, dad:

*greenie*

Soooo, true. People realize they've been hoodwinked by reefer madness, so it follows that they'll think they're being hoodwinked again by the billboard you mention - even if it's telling the truth.

To me, it looks like government LYING is the gateway.

Interestingly, 50 MILLION Americans don't smoke cigarettes any more, simply because the government started telling the truth about tobacco. Would you believe that we accomplished that feat without putting a single person in jail?

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, dad:

*greenie*

Soooo, true. People realize they've been hoodwinked by reefer madness, so it follows that they'll think they're being hoodwinked again by the billboard you mention - even if it's telling the truth.

To me, it looks like government LYING is the gateway.

Interestingly, 50 MILLION people don't smoke cigarettes any more, simply because the government started telling the truth about tobacco. Would you believe that we accomplished that feat without putting a single person in jail?

excon

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Stranger things have happened. But with the truth people can make up their own minds rather then being robotic in their responses. Its all about the great evils we all have to deal with. If you can determine the truth then the appropriate response can be formulated. Isn't that how people get over addictions is by seeing and acknowlaging the truth about themselfes and their situations?

Greenie for you Dad! Great post.

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Originally Posted by excon

But, to stop trying to correct this wrong, even if 'wingers' are against my efforts, is something that I'll NEVER do. I even think I'll succeed.

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Hello again,

And, I AM succeeding...

The newly minted senator from Virginia, Jim Webb stepped firmly on a political third rail when he introduced a bill to examine sweeping reforms to the criminal justice system. Interestingly, he escaped unscathed. Maybe it IS time for a discussion.

Webb's reform is backed by a coalition of liberals, conservatives and libertarians that couldn't have existed even a few years ago. His bill calls for the creation of a bipartisan commission to study the issue for 18 months and come back with concrete legislative recommendations.

Webb couches the effort in fairly straightforward terms. "Let's start with a premise that I don't think a lot of Americans are aware of. We have five percent of the world's population; we have 25 percent of the world's known prison population," Webb said on the Senate floor when introducing the bill.

"There are only two possibilities here: either we have the most evil people on earth living in the United States; or we are doing something dramatically wrong in terms of how we approach the issue of criminal justice."

Things, they are a changing...

excon

Excellent point, Dad. How long will it take us to get over W.R. Hearst's campaign to criminalize hemp? That is where ALL the marijuana hooey came from. The truly funny thing about it is that you don't get high from hemp, unless you smoke constantly.

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Originally Posted by Catsmine

Excellent point, Dad. How long will it take us to get over W.R. Hearst's campaign to criminalize hemp? That is where ALL the marijuana hooey came from. The truly funny thing about it is that you don't get high from hemp, unless you smoke constantly.

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To me and this statement may be out there for some. But in today's climate we need to return to hemp and the benefits it once gave this great country. Plus it would be a perfect substitute for America's cash crop farmers instead of tobacco. Hemp has many uses and almost all its parts can be used and recycled in some way. Hemp oils could be made into fuel rather then using up our food supply (like corn). The stalks can be made into paper or jeans or even building materials. Plus as has been said it grows almost anywhere. It's the paraniod politicians that are holding it back and restricting it because of the hybrid use now known as marijuana. Its insane. The only thing that would get you high from hemp is a lack of oxygen.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

Just SAYING I'm wrong, smoothy, doesn't make it so. It truly doesn't.

excon

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There is a Law... its on the books... its being enforced.

Sorry, but THAT discussion is already closed. Its NOT open fopr discussion any more than the Law against Statutory rape... which IS something with far fewer victims... than the drug trade. And no less deserving of being outlawed.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again,

And, I AM succeeding...

The newly minted senator from Virginia, Jim Webb stepped firmly on a political third rail when he introduced a bill to examine sweeping reforms to the criminal justice system. Interestingly, he escaped unscathed. Maybe it IS time for a discussion.

Webb's reform is backed by a coalition of liberals, conservatives and libertarians that couldn't have existed even a few years ago. His bill calls for the creation of a bipartisan commission to study the issue for 18 months and come back with concrete legislative recommendations.

Webb couches the effort in fairly straightforward terms. "Let's start with a premise that I don't think a lot of Americans are aware of. We have five percent of the world's population; we have 25 percent of the world's known prison population," Webb said on the Senate floor when introducing the bill.

"There are only two possibilities here: either we have the most evil people on earth living in the United States; or we are doing something dramatically wrong in terms of how we approach the issue of criminal justice."

Things, they are a changin....

excon

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WHy don't you take up Defending NAMBLA... Its no less deserving than drug addicts are to getting their fix is.


After all... if they WEREN'T addicts... then why is getting stoned the Foremost item on their minds... hmmmmm... Lot like a Heroin addict... or a crank head... always looking ahead on how to get their next fix.

You know Pedophiles can seem to get over their problem either... perhaps if they make that legal the problem will disappear too.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

WHy don't you take up Defending NAMBLA.....Its no less deserving than drug addicts are to getting their fix is.

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Hello again, smoothy:

You don't understand the distinctions I made earlier about victimless crimes. Instead you just pronounced me wrong. Let me try again. Pedophiles have victims. Pot smokers don't. Until you GET that distinction, we don't have a lot to say to each other.

Now, if you'd like to engage me in THAT argument, I'll be happy to take you on. But, just SAYING I'm wrong, don't cut it. In fact, I don't think you know what an argument is. You think it's FOURTH grade crap. I LOVE to argue, smoothy, but I'm growing tired of your silliness.

excon

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Originally Posted by smoothy

the Law against Statutory rape....which IS something with far fewer victims...than the drug trade. And no less deserving of being outlawed.

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Sorry but I think with statutory rape, ALL of the children involved are victims. Not far fewer, they are ALL victims.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

You don't understand the distinctions I made earlier about victimless crimes. Instead you just pronounced me wrong. Let me try again. Pedophiles have victims. Pot smokers don't. Until you GET that distinction, we don't have a lot to say to each other.

Now, if you'd like to engage me in THAT argument, I'll be happy to take you on. But, just SAYING I'm wrong, don't cut it. In fact, I don't think you know what an argument is. You think it's FOURTH grade crap. I LOVE to argue, smoothy, but I'm growing tired of your silliness.

excon

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Illegal Drug use being a victimless crime is a figment of a drug users imagination.

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Originally Posted by thisisit

Sorry but I think with statutory rape, ALL of the children involved are victims. Not far fewer, they are ALL victims.

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You mean.. like all the dead non-victims of the drug trade?


Actually read back on many of my arguments... I don't actually think there are no victims in statutory rape. And statutory rape and pedophillia are not exactly the same thing even if that distinction is not clear as black and white.

Pedophillia is the far worse of the two.

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Originally Posted by excon

Now, if you'd like to engage me in THAT argument, I'll be happy to take you on. But, just SAYING I'm wrong, don't cut it.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Illegal Drug use being a victimless crime is a figment of a drug users imagination.

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Hello again, smoothy:

Game, set and match.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

Game, set and match.

excon

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Really... exactly WHERE did you definatively disprove the well proven facts of numerous crimes committed by Narco Trafficers against innocent victims here and around the world are false? Because I missed it.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Really...exactly WHERE did you definatively disprove the well proven facts of numerous crimes committed by Narco Trafficers against innocent victims here and around the world are false? Because I missed it.

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Hello again, smoothy:

Here's the problem we have. You confuse the drug trade with drug use. And, you make up stuff. Neither helps.

But, I'll try again. Drug PROHIBITION causes crime. Drug USE doesn't. If you need evidence of that, all you have to do is look back into our own history. When alcohol was illegal, there was a lot of crime surrounding it. Since it was made legal, that crime disappeared. There's a reason that happened.

So, let me be perfectly clear - alcohol use does not cause crime.

Please THINK about that for a minute. Read the WORDS, and don't make up stuff. No, I didn't say drunk driving is cool. No, I didn't say beating up your wife when you're drunk is OK. No, I didn't say being an alcoholic is just hunky dory. I didn't say ANY of those things. I said ONE thing, and one thing only. I'll say it again if you didn't understand it. Alcohol USE does not cause crime.

If you GET that, then you'd get that drug use doesn't cause crime either. But, I don't think you DO get that. I don't know why. I think you believe reefer madness sort of stuff, like snorting a line of coke COMPELS you to rob a 7/Eleven.

excon

Hi excon(I'll try to keep this as congenial as you guys do)

Alcohol sales are a direct contributor to crime(could be drunk driving,could be murder,could be rape)

Drug sales are a direct contributor to crime(it is illegal)

Alcohol USE is a direct contributor to crimes.

Drug USE is a direct contributor to crimes.(it it also illegal to use drugs)

Since alcohol sales have been made legal,you say that crime has lessened?And you are saying that the jails are fuller in the USA?And that the justice system is defective?

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Originally Posted by KBC

Hi excon(I'll try to keep this as congenial as you guys do)

Alcohol sales are a direct contributor to crime(could be drunk driving,could be murder,could be rape)

Drug sales are a direct contributor to crime(it is illegal)

Alcohol USE is a direct contributor to crimes.

Drug USE is a direct contributor to crimes.(it it also illegal to use drugs)

Since alcohol sales have been made legal,you say that crime has lessened?And you are saying that the jails are fuller in the USA?And that the justice system is defective?

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Hi, KBC (pardon the pun)

I think the two words you put in boldface are misspelled. Shouldn't there be an "ab" in front of "use?" Or did you mean that all alcohol and drug consumption directly causes crimes?