Ask Me Help Desk - Something I don't understand about the Health Care Debate

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello a:

Actually informed people know the failures were due to greed, a LACK of government oversight and a LACK of regulation....

It's not ME who is saying that... It's the American people, who FIRED the folks who think that way. Because, THAT thinking WAS in play for the last 8 years, and it brought us DISASTER!

excon

You are right on, but can't communicate with someone who watchs Fox News and lets people like Rush, Sean and Glenn do their thinking for them. The good news is that they are offering nothing but negativity, without solutions. Even Einstein realized that doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is insanity. Now that Americans have removed the old regime, we can watch reality, and don't have to argue about old ideology that has already failed.

LOL that's a good one
Tin foil hat time for the conservatives.

Kool aid
For the right coming right up

Quote:

Originally Posted by amdeist

You are right on, but can't communicate with someone who watchs Fox News and lets people like Rush, Sean and Glenn do their thinking for them. The good news is that they are offering nothing but negativity, without solutions. Even Einstein realized that doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is insanity. Now that Americans have removed the old regime, we can watch reality, and don't have to argue about old ideology that has already failed.

Actually, I get my talking points not from FOX, et al. I get them from my professional background in economics and finance.

You might want to try reading a book on something other than Keynsian economics. You might learn something.

We're not talking about trying the same thing again and again. We're talking about trying it for the first time since 1942... a free market system WITHOUT government intervention using the interstate commerce clause as an excuse to regulate every industry under the sun. You ought to try it before you dismiss it.

But you won't.

As for the reality that we're starting to see... That reality includes the highest level of unemployment in 60 years, despite the fact that Obama promissed that if we passed his stimulus bill, unemployment wouldn't go over 8%. We're seeing the highest level of budget deficits in history... quadruple what George Bush left us. We're seeing the national debt double... more debt than all the prior administrations left behind COMBINED. We're seeing two of the top three auto companies, 10 of the top 12 banks, and the largest insurance company in the USA taken over by the government. We're seeing money that was SUPPOSED to be used to buy up "toxic assets" instead used to take over companies. We're seeing the government firing CEOs of private companies and dictating the salaries of employees of private companies. We're seeing the government try to put laws into place that control what we drive, how much gas we use, how much we pay in taxes based on the energy we use (even though that energy is produced by private companies at no cost to the government), and what kinds of lighjtbulbs we can buy. Not to mention what types of toilets we can use.

And on top of that, we're seeing the government try to take over health care.

Yes, you are quite correct. The people voted out the Republicans. Now they are seeing reality.

And they're getting angry at what they see.

THAT'S why your seeing the reactions you're seeing at town hall meetings. Because reality is kicking in... we don't have to argue about the policies of the old regime anymore. We're seeing the reality of the new regime in action.

And it ain't good for the Dems.

Elliot

... I thought I liked your Jewish page replies...
You are a voice of reason in politics too.
:D greenie for ETW

Quote:

Originally Posted by N0help4u

....I thought I liked your Jewish page replies.....
you are a voice of reason in politics too.
:D greenie for ETW

Why, thank you.

:p

Elliot

[QUOTE=ETWolverine;1906713]Actually, I get my talking points not from FOX, et al. I get them from my professional background in economics and finance.

You might want to try reading a book on something other than Keynsian economics. You might learn something.

Can't argue with a self-appointed expert on everything. Not only have I read more books on economics, have two masters degrees from SMU and GW, but have written a book on Amazon.com entitled "What Has Capitalism Done For You." I wrote it in 2004, and predicted in my last chapter exactly what is happening today and will happen in the next couple of years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by amdeist

Can't argue with a self-appointed expert on everything. Not only have I read more books on economics, have two masters degrees from SMU and GW, but have written a book on Amazon.com entitled "What Has Capitalism Done For You." I wrote it in 2004, and predicted in my last chapter exactly what is happening today and will happen in the next couple of years.

Damn you showed him. :) Welcome to the site. You'll find that ET has the answer to everything.

[quote=amdeist;1906760]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ETWolverine

Actually, I get my talking points not from FOX, et al. I get them from my professional background in economics and finance.

You might want to try reading a book on something other than Keynsian economics. You might learn something.

Can't argue with a self-appointed expert on everything. Not only have I read more books on economics, have two masters degrees from SMU and GW, but have written a book on Amazon.com entitled "What Has Capitalism Done For You." I wrote it in 2004, and predicted in my last chapter exactly what is happening today and will happen in the next couple of years.

It took you until 2004 to predict the current state of affairs?

There have been experts in finance predicting this stuff since Jimmy Carter instituted the CRA laws back in the 70s. The ABA has made this their pet project for the past 20 years, since the S&L debacle forewarned us that this was going to happen.

And it took you until 2004? Where the hell have you been?

You've been too busy pushing your idea of Utopia in your book... government programs ubber alles.

Well, it's your government programs, designed to push your Utopian vision, that got us into this mess.

Elliot

Quote:

Originally Posted by ETWolverine

And it took you until 2004? Where the hell have you been?

When was your book published?

Quote:

Originally Posted by amdeist

Can't argue with a self-appointed expert on everything.

Hello again, a:

I must speak up for self appointed experts on everything. Some of us actually DO know what we're talking about.

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

When was your book published?

Those who can, do. Those who can't write books telling others what to do. I've been "doing" for the past 16 years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by N0help4u

LOOK up page 29 line 4-16

If you can find different than 'what you think the righties are making it to say' I would be interested in knowing.

Hello again, N0:

You'll have to link me to the bill you're talking about. I find NOTHING on page 29, lines 4-16 on the bill I examined. That would be the Senate Bill here: http://help.senate.gov/BAI09A84_xml.pdf

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, N0:

You'll have to link me to the bill you're talking about. I find NOTHING on page 29, lines 4-16 on the bill I examined. That would be the Senate Bill here: http://help.senate.gov/BAI09A84_xml.pdf

excon

Try HR 3200 out of the House.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...3200ih.txt.pdf

Interestingly enough, the bill calls for an appeals system for "qualified" private insurance carriers (pages 37 & 38 of the bill), but makes no mention of a similar system for the government health plan.

I find that to be a very telling fact.

Private insurance companies need a way to deal with appeals. But the government doesn't.

Hmmmm...

Elliot

Hello again, El & N0:

4 (A) ANNUAL LIMITATION.—The cost-shar
5 ing incurred under the essential benefits pack-
6 age with respect to an individual (or family) for
7 a year does not exceed the applicable level spec
8 ified in subparagraph (B).
9 (B) APPLICABLE LEVEL.—The applicable
10 level specified in this subparagraph for Y1 is
11 $5,000 for an individual and $10,000 for a
12 family. Such levels shall be increased (rounded
13 to the nearest $100) for each subsequent year
14 by the annual percentage increase in the Con

Nope!! Nothing about not being able to appeal here. Maybe it's on the back of Obama's missing birth certificate.

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by ETWolverine

Those who can, do. Those who can't write books telling others what to do. I've been "doing" for the past 16 years.

All those books published and read, such waste eh? God you love yourself. :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, El & N0:

4 (A) ANNUAL LIMITATION.—The cost-shar
5 ing incurred under the essential benefits pack-
6 age with respect to an individual (or family) for
7 a year does not exceed the applicable level spec
8 ified in subparagraph (B).
9 (B) APPLICABLE LEVEL.—The applicable
10 level specified in this subparagraph for Y1 is
11 $5,000 for an individual and $10,000 for a
12 family. Such levels shall be increased (rounded
13 to the nearest $100) for each subsequent year
14 by the annual percentage increase in the Con

Nope!!! Nothing about not being able to appeal here. Maybe it's on the back of Obama's missing birth certificate.

excon

1) They are setting limitations.

2) They are NOT putting a system in place to appeal those limitations, even though they create such a system for private carriers (who already have appeals processes in place as part of the normal course of business) just a few pages later.

NO's point is pretty much right on the money, whether you wish to admit it or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

All those books published and read, such waste eh? God you love yourself. :p

Read by whom? I don't see any reader reviews of AMDEIST's book. Do you?

And yes, I do love myself. Being right all the time just makes me easier to love.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ETWolverine

1) They are setting limitations.

2) They are NOT putting a system in place to appeal those limitations,

NO's point is pretty much right on the money, whether you wish to admit it or not.

Hello again, El:

The right wing scare points are that there's NO APPEAL. Because they didn't say there is, you say that means there isn't.

Dude! Dude! Dude! Are you listening to yourself??

If health care shouldn't be reformed, you're going to have to come up with better stuff than THAT! The buffoonery your side is presenting as debate, is actually HURTING your cause - not helping it.

DUDE!

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, El:

The right wing scare points are that there's NO APPEAL. Because they didn't say there is, you say that means there isn't.

Dude! Dude! Dude! Are you listening to yourself???????

If health care shouldn't be reformed, you're gonna have to come up with better stuff than THAT! The buffoonery your side is presenting as debate, is actually HURTING your cause - not helping it.

DUDE!

excon

I asked this question earlier. Who do you appeal to? The same people making the decision in the first place? And you expect a different answer on appeal?

DUDE!!

Once the government makes a decision, that is IT. Try appealing a decision of the IRS if you think I'm wrong.

Elliot