I guess London Telegraph is a FOX affiliate .

Crisis in Georgia highlights John McCain's strengths - Telegraph

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Originally Posted by tomder55

But the truth is that as the Ruskies have spit on the world wide effort to appease them ,Bush's rhetoric is falling more in line with reality .Too bad Sec. Def. Gates is still using appeaser language.

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I watched Gates on a C-Span replay of the news briefing from the Pentagon, 08/14/2008. His language was near perfect, not what we want to hear, of course; but he said responsibility lies with the president up to this point. Am I correct in saying that the Russians are forty (40) miles outside Tbilisi? "There were also conflicting reports that Russian troops had overrun the city of Gori while Georgian forces were concentrating on holding Mtskheta, 15 miles from the capital." Georgia 'overrun' by Russian troops as full-scale ground invasion begins | Mail Online
The point Gates made that impressed me is that there are many conflicting reports. He said there is an assessment team on the ground, arriving in the third flight into the capitol. As we are aware having witnessed two invasions in Iraq and one in Afghanistan, it takes time to put an army on the ground; and ours is not there. The bigger issue, pointed out by Gates' remarks, is what happens next? What happens if the Russians occupy the capitol?

But Gates did not leave the question open . He said :

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"I don't see any prospect for the use of military force by the United States in this situation,"

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That was an important signal... a mistake Ronnie Reagan would never make.

Secretary Gates said, as I recall, "The United States spent 45 years working very hard to avoid a military confrontation with Russia," said Gates. "I see no reason to change that approach today." The Associated Press: Gates warns Russia to pull back in Georgia fight That was on 08/14/2008. He didn't say what approach the US should take on 08/15/2008, or thereafter. It is not his position to state publicly what the US will do, anyway.
John Bolton writes: "...the United States needs some straight talk with our friends in Europe... However, Russia did not invade Georgia with diplomats or roubles, but with tanks. This is a security threat, and the proper forum for discussing security threats on the border of a Nato member – yes, Europe, this means Turkey – is Nato."
John Bolton: After Russia's invasion of Georgia, what now for the West? - Telegraph

Hello:

Here it is, four days later... The true impact of the event is just NOW sinking in. Both candidates have come to similar positions. Among the three, the only wuss is the dufus in chief who is going on vacation??

What should we DO now, instead of go shopping? Pappa Bush surly didn't like sovereign nations being invaded. He went in and threw the invaders out. Sonny boy looks at butts and goes on vacation. What happened to his balls?

If you're not worried, you should be.

excon

I agree with Bolton and am a fan of Sec Gates (especially during his CIA years ) .But unfortunately I do not feel NATO is up to the task... And if it is ;only because ,as is always the case; because the US leads.

Even in the Clintoon days the US had to provide the bulk of the muscle to any NATO initiative . On their own the Europeans watched helpless as genocide was occurring in their own backyard in the Balkans.

The diplomatic efforts in my opinion reek of Munich 1938 ;and the comparison is fitting in many other ways . It was the concern of the plight of ethnic Germans that was the justification for the occupation of the Sudetenland and the subsequent invasion of Czechoslovakia. Poland was next . Is Ukraine the next Poland ?

No wonder the Poles were so quick to embrace the US Missile shield yesterday . They know that they cannot count on the EU for their security.

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Originally Posted by excon

What should we DO now, instead of go shopping? Pappa Bush surly didn't like sovereign nations being invaded. He went in and threw the invaders out. Sonny boy looks at butts and goes on vacation. What happened to his balls?

If you're not worried, you should be.

excon

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Papa Bush took six months to place an invading army in place. What do you recommend? By the way, you buying gold while it's on sale?

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I agree with Bolton and am a fan of Sec Gates (especially during his CIA years ) .But unfortunately I do not feel NATO is up to the task....And if it is ;only because ,as is always the case; because the US leads.

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This is not a neighborhood fire and requires a very long hose. Do you think the president can send Putin an ultimatum? What would it say? I believe that is why Secretary Gates is saying, at this point, it will take years for the Russian government to undo the damage; but that if further damage is carried out, we are considering our options.

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Originally Posted by George_1950

Papa Bush took six months to place an invading army in place. What do you recommend? By the way, you buying gold while it's on sale?

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Hello again, George:

To me, it seems that Russia is intent on flexing it's cold war muscles again. Instead of sending food and clothing, which we would have done if a hurricane had hit, we should have sent in the 82nd Airborne.

I don't know. I thought you righty's were tough.

Yes, I'm buying. It's cheap.

excon

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By the way, you buying gold while it's on sale?

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I think the gold bubble burst

Also as I recall it was Maggie Thatcher who got Bush sr. to get the ball rolling in 1990.

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Originally Posted by excon

Both candidates have come to similar positions. Among the three, the only wuss is the dufus in chief who is going on vacation?????

If you're not worried, you should be.

excon

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Oh yeah, I'm worried, but have to disagree about your "wuss" statement.

I think that when Obama, made the statement that the United Nations should take care of this "situation" not only proves his "wuss" status, but also highlights his true lack of knowledge and experience.

Already addressed in a previous post, but have to reiterate, shouldn't a potential future President of the US know that Russia has veto power over anything the UN would come up with.

Totally ridiculous, and I have to say, ignorant.

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Originally Posted by excon

I dunno. I thought you righty's were tough.

excon

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You, Obama, and the rest of the peaceniks have been complaining for years about cowboy diplomacy; why not make up your minds? Besides, since when have you advocated the U.S. occupying the world?

George ;I addressed what I thought we should do comment #17 here :

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There is a certain logic that we will not commit to an armed conflict with them over Gerogia ;but they are close to stepping into a hornets nest there.

This very well could be their "Iraq". Note that the Georgian Army fell back instead of drawing a line and standing to fight. The Ruskies are walking into territory where the population has a vivid memory of the last time the Ruskies occupied them. The Georgian Army looks to me to be falling back intact to a defensive position in the Lesser Caucasus Mts. If the Ruskies bog down then expect an Iraqi style insurgency .

Notable is the fact that there are many US advisors on the ground with presumably plenty of experience in that type of combat . IEDs anyone ? Night raids on isolated Ruskie units ? They will rue the day they crossed through Roki Tunnel .If push comes to shove a strategically placed bomb could cut off the Ruskie land route supplyline . Then a couple of strategically placed mines in the Black Sea could really give them problems. Expect the US to transfer SAM and anti-tank capability to the Georgians.

Talking about history ;check out the fierceness of the Georgian fighter throughout history ;especially the Hulagu Khan's army . Let the Ruskies bleed for a while.

My guess is that when a final settlement is made that South Ossetia will be permitted to become semi-autonomous .The Ruskie KGB kleptocrats who keep summer homes there will be able to hide the rubles they skim from the oil revenue and will be happy.

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https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/curren...-247746-2.html

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Originally Posted by progunr

Totally ridiculous, and I have to say, ignorant.

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Whoa, there; you calling a liberal, 'ignorant'? You must be, not only a racist, but a bigoted racist at that. Remember, he is 'the one we've been waiting on'.

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Originally Posted by George_1950

You, Obama, and the rest of the peaceniks have been complaining for years about cowboy diplomacy; why not make up your minds? Besides, since when have you advocated the U.S. occupying the world?

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Since I was 4.

By the way, George, a peacenik, I'm not. You happened on the scene here somewhat late. In fact, I'm hawkier than the hawks here are in terms of the war on terror. I just happen to recognize that Iraq ISN'T part of it. It's all here for you to peruse.

excon

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I agree with Bolton and am a fan of Sec Gates (especially during his CIA years ) .But unfortunately I do not feel NATO is up to the task... And if it is ;only because ,as is always the case; because the US leads.

Even in the Clintoon days the US had to provide the bulk of the muscle to any NATO initiative . On their own the Europeans watched helpless as genocide was occurring in their own backyard in the Balkans.

The diplomatic efforts in my opinion reek of Munich 1938 ;and the comparison is fitting in many other ways . It was the concern of the plight of ethnic Germans that was the justification for the occupation of the Sudetenland and the subsequent invasion of Czechoslovakia. Poland was next . Is Ukraine the next Poland ?

No wonder the Poles were so quick to embrace the US Missile shield yesterday . They know that they cannot count on the EU for their security.

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Interesting comments by the Polish PM on this:

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Polish officials said the agreement would strengthen the mutual commitment of the United States to defend Poland, and vice versa. “Poland and the Poles do not want to be in alliances in which assistance comes at some point later — it is no good when assistance comes to dead people,” the Polish prime minister, Donald Tusk, said on Polish television. “Poland wants to be in alliances where assistance comes in the very first hours of — knock on wood — any possible conflict.”

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Originally Posted by George_1950

Whoa, there; you calling a liberal, 'ignorant'? You must be, not only a racist, but a bigoted racist at that. Remember, he is 'the one we've been waiting on'.

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Oh my God, you're right, how shameful of me!

We both better take our tongues out of our cheeks, or no one will be able
To understand what we're saying.

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Originally Posted by excon

Since I was 4.

By the way, George, a peacenik, I'm not...In fact, I'm hawkier than the hawks here are in terms of the war on terror....

excon

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Well, a liberal hawk, and, meaning no disrespect, an old, liberal hawk at that cause there are none left on the national scene, anyway. The vast majority of liberals couldn't care less about property rights. If one doesn't care about property rights, why care about the invasion of Georgia? Humanitarianism? What is that? Other than liberal double-speak about caring about someone's conditions without addressing the cause of the conditions.

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Originally Posted by George_1950

Well, a liberal hawk, and, meaning no disrespect, an old, liberal hawk at that cause there are none left on the national scene, anyway. The vast majority of liberals couldn't care less about property rights. If one doesn't care about property rights, why care about the invasion of Georgia? Humanitarianism? What is that? Other than liberal double-speak about caring about someone's conditions without addressing the cause of the conditions.

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Oh NO!

You have ignited another bonfire in my long list of problems with the direction this Nation is headed.

Eminent Domain. What Bull Crap.

If there is anything that the American public should be up in arms about, it is the growing practice of taking private property away from it's owner, simply because the government says so!

URGGGGG! I don't even want to get started on this one today!

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

I'm speaking of the satellite state, now country, of the former USSR, that's struggling toward a faint resemblance of democracy, but just had it's doors kicked in by Russia.

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So how did all this get started? According to Buchanan, "Mikheil Saakashvili's decision to use the opening of the Olympic Games to cover Georgia's invasion of its breakaway province of South Ossetia must rank in stupidity with Gamal Abdel-Nasser's decision to close the Straits of Tiran to Israeli ships.

"After shelling and attacking what he claims is his own country, killing scores of his own Ossetian citizens and sending tens of thousands fleeing into Russia, Saakashvili's army was whipped back into Georgia in 48 hours." Blowback From Bear-Baiting - HUMAN EVENTS