The differnce is Obama has never uttered a truthful statement in his adult life yet.
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The differnce is Obama has never uttered a truthful statement in his adult life yet.
Equality of opportunity is what I believe is fair. Creating winners and losers to shape society in your image is not fair.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
I was watching the exchange between Chao and Rep Gardner and I got the same impression that this Forbes article describes. He was asked how much more work was needed and he replied 60% to 70%, which Gardner couldn't believe he had just heard, and gave Chao several opportunities to clarify. Don't assume it is 60 to 70% done. It may actually be 30- 40% done, or less.
Medicare Deputy CIO: Somewhere Between '30-40%' Of Obamacare's Exchange Software Has Not Yet Been Built - Forbes
Quote:
Originally Posted by smearcase
Did you read the article, lots of misintrepretation there
While he created the impression the site was incomplete, he was talking about back office systems, the interfaces with accounting, payment, since we haven't seen the specs we don't know what is envisagedQuote:
Chao: “It’s not really about healthcare.gov; it’s the federally-faciliated marketplace…the on-line application, verification, determination, plan [comparison shopping], getting enrolled, generating the enrollment transaction—that’s 100 percent there.”
As I indicated, I watched it live (on cspan I meant to include). he was asked how much work remained. He said 60 to 70% which I assumed was his misunderstanding of the question-- as did the questioner, who tried to get him to correct himself. But, he never did.
Yes lots of oriential inscrutiability and staying on message rather than allowing himself to be interrupted but right at the end of the transcript did he turn it around?Quote:
Originally Posted by smearcase
You can't buy insurance if you can't pay for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Yes, you need more than a registration system, although there are many ways of paying for it, even very traditional ways that web interfaces are intended to replace.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
I expect that because of the size of the system they have some difficulties. perhaps they didn't have expertise in very large billing systems. I would have thought something like this was available "öff-the-rack" and could have been quickly adapted, afterall it isn't as though there aren't a myriad of insurance companies doing the same thing. But, it appears, someone decided to work it up from scratch.
How many times do I have to say that there is a plan B. The old fashion way, call or go to the insurance office, or get a quote from them from their website. I get them all the time in my email. Have for YEARS. No computer? Use the phone.
Instead of those old long forms for medical history, it's a simple financial form.
And it wasnt until recently that there may be a possibility of s subsidy for the insurance. But going to a single provider isnt going to be like comparison shopping. The website was suppose to do all of that and then some. So now that it is a broken pos you want people to do all the legwork. Maybe they might need an ID god forbid. Then they really can't get insurance.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Tal, there might be a Plan B or even C or D but that isn't the option been offered in the electronic, connected age where if you can't play with your telephone, forgive me, I-Pad, you are blind, deaf, dumb and stupid. We have given up knowing and doing for looking at a tiny screenQuote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
tal why don't you admit it that your emperor is a screw up. (and that's the kind version of this episode giving him all the benefit of the doubt )
You guys vowed to make him a one term president from day one. You Failed. You tried to stop his laws, and you FAILED! You tried to repeal his laws, and you Failed! You tried to force him to delay, You FAILED.
Admit it, you guys are failures because of Obama. All you can do now is drink and do drugs and drown in your own FAILURE! Why should we even believe failures such a yourself?
Maybe its time to pass on that Koolaid you been drinking and come back to the real world.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Hey dad would you like to tell us where to find that real world, because what I'm seeing ain't itQuote:
Originally Posted by cdad
Geez, if I'd said that I'd be getting "infractions."Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
is that infractions or IntractionsQuote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
P.S. In light of the current fiasco called Obamacare and his plummeting ratings I think I'd refrain from calling others a drugged and drunken failure.
Really? For 5 years you have failed to even effect a credible plan that helps America, and have taken the luxury position of cherry picking the targets for your rock throwing and name calling. Like residents of the peanut gallery who heckle the home team constantly. Prez is down, but you haven't made him quit! LOL, you have gotten him down before.
Enjoy your beer and peanuts, and make all the noise you can, while you can.
You guys are giving us much lower fruit to pick than even Bush. Heck, Oregon's exchange still hasn't signed up anyone and won't be ready until the day after the due date to have insurance coverage on Jan 1.
and Oregon was one of those blue state models that the rest of the country was supposed to model their plan after .
Must be one of those attacks I'm not supposed to take personally .Quote:
All you can do now is drink and do drugs and drown in your own FAILURE! Why should we even believe failures such a yourself?
But they have a really catchy jingle.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I shall refrain from any more snark lest I get another red mark.Quote:
Must be one of those attacks I'm not supposed to take personally .
As opposed to shaping society in the image of a football match perhaps?Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
What is your definition of equity and how is it achieved?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuttyd
If you like your hospital ...you can't keep it.
New health plans sold through exchanges not accepted at some prestigious NYC hospitals - The Washington PostQuote:
As of this week, not one of the plans for sale on New York's health benefit exchange would cover treatment at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, one of the world's largest and most respected cancer hospitals.
That could mean that the 615,000 individuals and 450,000 small business employees expected to eventually get their insurance through the exchange would have to go someplace else for treatment, or pay the bill out of their own pockets.
Other premier city hospitals are in the networks of just a few of the new plans.
NYU Langone Medical Center has signed agreements with four of the 19 insurers doing business on the exchange.
NewYork-Presbyterian Hospital, which oversees the city's biggest hospital system, has signed agreements with six insurers.
The death panel will decide your fate .
Well, healthcare.gov certainly can't tell you your fate so someone has to decide.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Healthcare.gov can't tell consumers whether they can keep their doctors | Mobile Washington Examiner
There are many types of equities, none of which can ever be realized in total. The type of equity you guys promote is the type where social, political and economic equity is a complete package. It only has to be realized in its totality to create a better society.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
On the other side of the ideological coin no one should ever suggest that economic equity should be attempted. However, everyone should want to promote the idea that equity in health care is something worth aiming for.
Health care should be doled out according to needs, not the perceived needs of a society that believes in a level playing field best determines health outcomes for everyone.
Does Obamacare achieve that? Is it equitable?
Economics expert Steve Rattner explained yesterday how 80 percent of us are "unaffected" by Obamacare, the current talking point myth designed to make us feel better about getting screwed. He even had a nice little chart.
http://media.hotair.com/wp/wp-conten...WhoPayMore.jpg
My question would be what is the definition of "unaffected" seeing as how most of us had to change plans and many of those plans cost significantly more, raise deductibles, copays and out-of-pockets and no, won't let us keep our doctors.
So what part of "unaffected" am I missing here?
You had to change doctors, got higher premiums? Who is this "us" you keep referring too? How many is "US"?
Just asking.
I've still got my doctor. My private pay son still has his doctor and no change in cost or coverage. My other son who has health insurance through his job has experienced no change in cost or coverage. We are in Illinois.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
How many got to keep their plans they liked?Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
At our house, all four of us. I haven't done an Illinois survey yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
So you were "unaffected" by Obamacare, that makes four. Here's one woman's choice, and she's not happy about it.
Forced into a government handout she didn't want robbing her of her dignity. Good work Mr. President.Quote:
My mother is not one to seek attention by complaining, so her recent woeful Facebook post caught my eye: "The poor get poorer." It diverged from the more customary stream of inspirational quotes, recipes and snapshots from her tiny cottage in Pierce County, Wash.
The post continued: "I just received a notice: 'In order to comply with the new healthcare law, your current health plan will be discontinued on December 31, 2013.' Currently my premium is $276 and it is a stretch for me to cover. The new plan . . . are you ready . . . projected new rate $415.20. Now I can't afford health insurance."
The unaffordable ObamaCare-compliant plan that her insurer offered in a Sept. 26 letter is not what makes my mother's story noteworthy. Countless individually insured Americans have received such letters; many are seeing more radical increases in premiums and deductibles.
But most of these people are still being offered the chance to choose what health-care insurance they will receive, or to opt out before they are automatically enrolled in a state program. Not so my mother, Charlene Hopkins, as I soon discovered when I called after seeing her Facebook post.
Since she couldn't afford the new plan offered by her insurer, she told me she was eager to explore her new choices under the Affordable Care Act. Washington Healthplanfinder is one of the better health-exchange sites, and she was actually able to log on. She entered her personal and financial data. With efficiency uncommon to the ObamaCare process, the site quickly presented her with a health-care option.
That is not a typo: There was just one option—at the very affordable monthly rate of zero. The exchange had determined that my mother was not eligible to choose to pay for a plan, and so she was slated immediately for Medicaid. She couldn't believe it was true and held off completing the application.
...
Instead, almost mockingly, her "Eligibility Results" came back: "Congratulations, we received and reviewed your application and determined [you] will receive the health care coverage listed below: Washington Apple Health. You will receive a letter telling you which managed care plan you are enrolled with." Washington Apple Health is the mawkish rebranding of Medicaid in Washington state.
The page lacked a cancel button or any way to opt out of Medicaid. It was done; she was enrolled, and there was nothing to do but click "Next" and then to sign out.
Of course, Medicaid is not a new option for my mother; she knew that she was poor enough to qualify for cost-free health care. It was a deliberate choice on her part to pay that monthly $276 out of her own pocket. Clearly she had judged that she received a personal benefit from not being on Medicaid.
"I just don't expect anything positive out of getting free health care," she said. "I don't see why other people should have to pay for my care, whether it be through taxes or otherwise." In paying for health insurance herself—she won't accept help from her family, either—she was safeguarding her dignity and independence and her sense of being a fully functioning member of society.
Before ObamaCare, Medicaid was one option. Not the option. Before this, she had never been, in effect, ordered to take a handout. Now she has been forced to join the government-reliant poor, though she would prefer to contribute her two mites. The authorities behind "affordable care" had erased her right to calculate what she was willing to spend to preserve her dignity—to determine what she thinks is affordable.
That little contribution can mean the difference between dignity and despair.
98% of the population for sure. Now tell me the effects on YOU, please, and not an anecdote with no data.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
But she gets her abortion pills . What more can she ask for ?Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Won't know for sure until next year when the employer mandate kicks in. My premiums went up ,and many of my staff is now considering dropping to the lower tier option in our plan. I will suck it up and pay the increase .....but again.... the employer mandate will affect millions more .Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
I read through your anecdote again and saving 276 bucks a month where she struggled to pay her premiums before may take family to explain she did pay the right to free health care.
Took a year for my own mom to realize NOT driving anymore was in her best interest. Don't you agree that your elderly lady in your anecdote benefits from the new law, even if she doesn't realize she EARNED her benefits?
Her family should help her see that because it's NOT a handout in the first place.It's a benefit she EARNED from her years of being a responsible person! Bet she puts that $276 a month she save to good use.
Don't you agree?
Medicaid is sh*t care .Before she had a choice .. Now the emperor deems she must go on state managed care .... Won't be long before someone tells her take the red pill instead of the operation.
I'm not the one making claims of 80% and like you, 98% being "unaffected" The onus is entirely on you to back that up with data and not statistics pulled out of your backside. And yes, my plan has had to change, my wife's has changed and increased in price but I have yet to see the details on mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
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